Issues With GOD

[Sovyet Gelibolu]

Actually, GOD walked away from the table and then skipped a meeting with TPF and Zenith gov...so there wasn't any attempt to antagonize GOD.

hmm...was this mentioned in the past nineteen pages? I can't recall.

(seriously, I'm not being snarky; I can't recall).

[Kaiser Martens]

Well, if you say that putting points forwards is bashing, then I suppose it is bashing.

GOD didn't go after me during my stays on BDC or NV. GOD didn't go after me when I went to war - twice. GOD didn't notify anyone about their stance towards me. GOD only spoke after I made my thread, and GOD certainly didn't war my nation once. What this means is that they are inconsistent, they cannot rightfully decide to destroy me now after a year of doing nothing, and that is the reason why they failed. If they had attacked me all along or had some minimum quota of responsability, they'd have been there when my release was decided. This is like someone complaining that they missed the bus while they weren't even standing or heading for the bus stop until the bus already left long ago.

Another interesting thing as I said is to see that GOD consider the entire deletion of a nation to be mild, moderate terms. Another majorly important thing is that Xiphosis claims that his ZIing was due to something that happened OOC, which is not correct. For those who don't want to go back and read, the reason why he was ZId was because I promised a guy to do so in exchange for him helping us in UJW. The reasons for that guy to want Xiph dead was because he blamed him for screwing ENA up. How is that OOC?

Xiph tried to tell me at some point it was OOC, but back in the day, he didn't put forth any evidence, and even in this thread, he didn't put forth any evidence of any OOC activities either. This is another inconsistency, are we supposed to take his word for it? I've never done any OOC things before, so in spite of being controversial, my record is clean in that regard. Xiphosis honestly believes that I had to do something OOC with him it seems, but all joking and trolling aside, this is completely mistaken, and if I was to blame, I would have apologized like I did all the other times.

Then there's the fact that his ZI was done after GOD was defeated in UJW by me and the Nordlanders, so he is trying to get even for that hummiliation. To try to give further support to their statement, they cited the NoV member who nuked a GOD member, but they conveniently had forgotten to mention that the surrender terms given to GOD were decreased after the nuking, to compensate for the damage, plus we had apologized. If any, Xiphosis is chasing me OOC rather than me him, for he hasn't provided proper justification for their actions.

Then the final nail in the coffin is that, unlike popular belief, GOD was not willing to negotiate. Zenith tried diplomacy first. When that failed, I made this thread. When GOD saw their little argument crumbling upon being faced with crude reality, THEN they decided to give some extremely horrible terms, gritting their teeth. This thread was instrumental in getting them to accept the little that they did accept.

GOD has been portrayed also as having an extremely vengeful nature, all those who I once considered enemies and all those who considered me enemies have moved on, but them, even though the rest had many more reasons to do so. And then there were third parties who moved in to support GOD and antagonize with the others, in fact GOD earlier took my bait during this thread and did admit that they had considered war as a "solution" to me as a "problem". For all I know, I may be entirely irrelevant and merely used by an excuse to try to start something.

Regardless, they failed. Not because of "power" but because their logic is entirely flawed, and the common man sees this. This is a victory.

[Zoomzoomzoom]

It is alright. No matter what Xiph does now, everybody knows that he is wrong and that he just did this to feel better about losing UJW.

The funniest part of the thread is perhaps how deleting my nation is considered by him to be "light terms"

You were planning on deleting to begin with. I highly doubt that your wonders meant that much to you.

If you care about the roleplaying and IC persona then the wonders and whatnot should not matter to you.

Maybe I missed it, but couldn't you still be able to rp, etc with the name Kaiser_martens 2?

[King Srqt]

Then the final nail in the coffin is that, unlike popular belief, GOD was not willing to negotiate. Zenith tried diplomacy first. When that failed, I made this thread. When GOD saw their little argument crumbling upon being faced with crude reality, THEN they decided to give some extremely horrible terms, gritting their teeth. This thread was instrumental in getting them to accept the little that they did accept.

Lots of things to address but I will first start with this bold faced lie. GOD always wanted to handle this diplomatically from the start and the only thing this thread accomplished was pissing a lot of people off.

As to the rest, I am not sure why GOD didn't go after you when you were in NV or BDC, perhaps they didn't feel it was worth it at the time, or maybe they didn't feel you were worth the diplomatic hassle of trying to get you ejected from an alliance (a much different situation than this where you more or less publicly stated that you were unaligned and off of lists) .

Xiph had been OOC harassed regularly by the person who requested his ZI, he informed you of that you scoffed at him he saw that as your support of an OOC attack against him that is the reason for your listing on PZI, which is a far better reason than many have supported on other nations in the past.

You are right though the final outcome had nothing to do with power it had to do with diplomacy and it was not a ictory it was a compromise and compromise is what both sides wanted form the start.

[Alterego]

As to the rest, I am not sure why GOD didn't go after you when you were in NV or BDC, perhaps they didn't feel it was worth it at the time, or maybe they didn't feel you were worth the diplomatic hassle of trying to get you ejected from an alliance .

That makes no sense when taken in the context of this thread.

[Sovyet Gelibolu]

Bombast? It's unattractive.

[King Srqt]

That makes no sense when taken in the context of this thread.

It makes perfect sense. KM was an unaligned nation when GOD said he was on ZI. He had not yet been accepted into Zenith as was evidenced by his AA of "Zenith Applicant"

Usually when you tell an alliance that an applicant is on a ZI list that is all it takes as opposed to telling an alliance that an already accepted member is on a ZI list.

[Kilkenny]

Lots of things to address but I will first start with this bold faced lie. GOD always wanted to handle this diplomatically from the start and the only thing this thread accomplished was pissing a lot of people off.

As to the rest, I am not sure why GOD didn't go after you when you were in NV or BDC, perhaps they didn't feel it was worth it at the time, or maybe they didn't feel you were worth the diplomatic hassle of trying to get you ejected from an alliance (a much different situation than this where you more or less publicly stated that you were unaligned and off of lists) .

Xiph had been OOC harassed regularly by the person who requested his ZI, he informed you of that you scoffed at him he saw that as your support of an OOC attack against him that is the reason for your listing on PZI, which is a far better reason than many have supported on other nations in the past.

You are right though the final outcome had nothing to do with power it had to do with diplomacy and it was not a ictory it was a compromise and compromise is what both sides wanted form the start.

Then why not go after him when he wasn't in those allainces?? Why not go after him when he was available for attack?? There was one slot open for quite a while when he was under attack by TPF and they didn't fill the slot. Again, does not show the intensity that Xiph seems to suggest there was. This does seem very opportunistic in nature, and quite like the analogy offered by KM about missing the bus.

From what I saw, they weren't very willing to talk, a lot of bluster though.

Can't really judge about the OOC but if no evidence was put forth then why should he have believed it? I don't know if proof was offered or not, but to wait 18 months seems to me that this is all a reach on Xiph's part to come up with a reason that would hold water.

[Hyperion321]

Well, if you say that putting points forwards is bashing, then I suppose it is bashing.

Putting forward points is not bashing, wishing for someone to leave the game and claiming this is all about ego is.

Another interesting thing as I said is to see that GOD consider the entire deletion of a nation to be mild, moderate terms. Another majorly important thing is that Xiphosis claims that his ZIing was due to something that happened OOC, which is not correct. For those who don't want to go back and read, the reason why he was ZId was because I promised a guy to do so in exchange for him helping us in UJW. The reasons for that guy to want Xiph dead was because he blamed him for screwing ENA up. How is that OOC?

That is one of the dumbest reasons I have heard for ZI...ever. And trust me, in this world, that's saying something.

Then there's the fact that his ZI was done after GOD was defeated in UJW by me and the Nordlanders, so he is trying to get even for that hummiliation.

They were fighting 8 alliances. Don't flatter yourself.

If any, Xiphosis is chasing me OOC rather than me him, for he hasn't provided proper justification for their actions.

No he is not. They wanted your in game character to end. If they wanted OOC blood they would just EZI you.

Regardless, they failed. Not because of "power" but because their logic is entirely flawed, and the common man sees this. This is a victory.

Nobody really "failed". An agreement was reached between both parties and everyone got something. Stop trying to play yourself off as some kind of victim.

[King Srqt]

Then why not go after him when he wasn't in those allainces?? Why not go after him when he was available for attack?? There was one slot open for quite a while when he was under attack by TPF and they didn't fill the slot. Again, does not show the intensity that Xiph seems to suggest there was. This does seem very opportunistic in nature, and quite like the analogy offered by KM about missing the bus.

From what I saw, they weren't very willing to talk, a lot of bluster though.

Can't really judge about the OOC but if no evidence was put forth then why should he have believed it? I don't know if proof was offered or not, but to wait 18 months seems to me that this is all a reach on Xiph's part to come up with a reason that would hold water.

Xiphosis offered military assistance when TPF was fighting KM TPF declined his assistance, that has already been stated and confirmed in one of the many threads on this subject.

[Kilkenny]

It makes perfect sense. KM was an unaligned nation when GOD said he was on ZI. He had not yet been accepted into Zenith as was evidenced by his AA of "Zenith Applicant"

Usually when you tell an alliance that an applicant is on a ZI list that is all it takes as opposed to telling an alliance that an already accepted member is on a ZI list.

But there have been plenty of time he was available and they did nothing at all.

[King Srqt]

But there have been plenty of time he was available and they did nothing at all.

All that proves is that they did not hunt him down. They knew he was on ZI and that was enough for them, when he decided to publicly announce that he was off of ZI GOD saw it and pointed out that there were unresolved issues. And again Assistance in his ZI with TPF was offered and declined.

Edited February 14, 2009 by KingSrqt

[Kilkenny]

Xiphosis offered military assistance when TPF was fighting KM TPF declined his assistance, that has already been stated and confirmed in one of the many threads on this subject.

Not this last time, As MoW I would have been aware of it, as we were looking for nations that could take him on given his experience witht he war system. Don't confuse current and more recent attacks with the ones back almost a year ago with NoV.

I am talking about more current wars.

[Kilkenny]

All that proves is that they did not hunt him down. They knew he was on ZI and that was enough for them, when he decided to publicly announce that he was off of ZI GOD saw it and pointed out that there were unresolved issues. And again Assistance in his ZI with TPF was offered and declined.

Again, how is this a big issue with them if they didn't pursue him??? It sounds totally like they were upset they were left out and deceided to complain about it. And they were left out cause noone knew of it until he had gotten off ZI by pretty much everyone else.

That is my point, I can't see how this is a big issue with Xiph and GOD given their lack of concern until the last few days.

[King Srqt]

Not this last time, As MoW I would have been aware of it, as we were looking for nations that could take him on given his experience witht he war system. Don't confuse current and more recent attacks with the ones back almost a year ago with NoV.

I am talking about more current wars.

I dont really have time to hunt down the post but i believe it was in more recent wars but even if it wasn't TPF had already declined the request in the past so why would GOD pester them again with the same request in a similar conflict.

[Sovyet Gelibolu]

Again, how is this a big issue with them if they didn't pursue him??? It sounds totally like they were upset they were left out and deceided to complain about it. And they were left out cause noone knew of it until he had gotten off ZI by pretty much everyone else.

That is my point, I can't see how this is a big issue with Xiph and GOD given their lack of concern until the last few days.

Until it was dragged onto the OWF, it wasn't a big issue.

Then, of course, all us bottom-feeders got our teeth into it.

[Hyperion321]

Then why not go after him when he wasn't in those allainces?? Why not go after him when he was available for attack?? There was one slot open for quite a while when he was under attack by TPF and they didn't fill the slot.

Hey look...a ZI Target without filled slots.

Maybe they had more pressing things to deal with at the time, like a world war, than beating down one guy...

[King Srqt]

Again, how is this a big issue with them if they didn't pursue him??? It sounds totally like they were upset they were left out and deceided to complain about it. And they were left out cause noone knew of it until he had gotten off ZI by pretty much everyone else.

That is my point, I can't see how this is a big issue with Xiph and GOD given their lack of concern until the last few days.

Because they were content with the fact that he was being P-ZId they didn't really care if they were the ones physically doing the ZIing once they saw that he was off everyones list they wanted to make sure it was known that they still had an issue.

When was teh last time an NPO nation attacked Doitzel? I bet it has been awhile that doesn't mean they don't care about his ZI does it?

[Alterego]

Hey look...a ZI Target without filled slots.

Maybe they had more pressing things to deal with at the time, like a world war, than beating down one guy...

One of many members of FAN is not the same of a vendetta PZI target who made "OOC" attacks.

[Loodoyaye II]

When was teh last time an NPO nation attacked Doitzel? I bet it has been awhile that doesn't mean they don't care about his ZI does it?

The difference is that NPO gives a notice when they put someone on the Zi list, instead of waiting 18 months without taking any action. You know, actions like nuking him when he turns into nuclear rogue, instead of waiting for someone else to eat the nukes and then claiming the kill.

[Kilkenny]

Hey look...a ZI Target without filled slots.

Maybe they had more pressing things to deal with at the time, like a world war, than beating down one guy...

He isn't our ZI target though. Rest assured if you are a ZI target I keep track of you and will put nations on you whenever I can.

Because they were content with the fact that he was being P-ZId they didn't really care if they were the ones physically doing the ZIing once they saw that he was off everyones list they wanted to make sure it was known that they still had an issue.

When was teh last time an NPO nation attacked Doitzel? I bet it has been awhile that doesn't mean they don't care about his ZI does it?

If it matters so much that they got paid to let him off their ZI list, why not attack him when they had they chance? You are right, he has 3 slots open, but I bet that when he gets a little bigger they will go to it with him, and one thing, it is known that he is on their list. who knew outside of GOD that he was on their list?? and did even most of GOD know that??

Until it was dragged onto the OWF, it wasn't a big issue.

Then, of course, all us bottom-feeders got our teeth into it.

The big issue is that they had to be paid to let him off the ZI list. I think their were quite a few people out there who held as much anger towards KM and yet didn't demand payment. Who is the more honorable alliance?? The ones letting him off or the one demanding payment??

I dont really have time to hunt down the post but i believe it was in more recent wars but even if it wasn't TPF had already declined the request in the past so why would GOD pester them again with the same request in a similar conflict.

Uhm, why didn't they attack him before we hit him?? They didn't have to ask us for permission to attack a ZI target of theirs. Or maybe they did. If that is the case, next time I would recommend contacting me immediately and I will respond as quick as I can.

[The Big Bad]

The difference is that NPO gives a notice when they put someone on the Zi list, instead of waiting 18 months without taking any action. You know, actions like nuking him when he turns into nuclear rogue, instead of waiting for someone else to eat the nukes and then claiming the kill.

I don't expect NPO would let him join alliances and live in peace for over a year without so much as a peep either.

[hizzy]

(pre-edit: sorry if this is not relevant anymore, but I just read the first 2 pages and jumped back here)

I'd just like to take this moment to vouch for KM's actions during the Unjust War.

I was the first person who went nuclear in that war, however I hit BAPS. I was expelled for my actions by KM and Strider, and Myworld is correct in recalling several people being expelled - I was one of them, and I was starting to head over to Polaris.

However, shortly after that, a large number of friends and comrades also went nuclear against GOD. KM tried to kick them out, but everytime one got the boot, 2 more would fire nukes... it got to the point where almost the entire mil-com was getting kicked out. By the time the dust settled, NoV really couldn't take kicking out everyone, especially since we had our backs against the wall. A lot of people were bill locked, and found themselves getting destroyed hard with only 1 chance of firing off nukes before bill-lock. In the end, everyone was accepted back.

KM did all he could to keep things in order, but (sorry KM, btw) we simply outnumbered him and stuck together.

Edited February 14, 2009 by hizzy

[Gen Lee]

Maybe we'll get lucky sometime.

You really don't know when to shut up.

You're making a fool out of the people that helped you.

[Duncan King]

My this conversation is fun. Hate to break it to many of you, but were able to resolve this amicably (I know, no war ). Time to move the arm chairs to a new diplomatic incident. Sorry to disappoint everyone.

GOD, bring on the list of nations, we'll pump you up!