The Tech Raid Lottery Show

[Jason8]

Aye, needs more Hakai...

You know... that's exactly why some people weren't upset! It wasn't because of the brutality... it was because of the lack of :HAKAI:!

Hmmm... *tracks down Hakai*

[Caliph]

The two things are the same. It was fought for political reasons, of course. But it was won over ideals, because of the large number of alliances that fought against the UjP, or did not fight for it when they could have done (e.g. TOP, MCXA).

Yes, many other alliances tech raid, and it is not practical to eradicate it from the world. But there is a difference between doing a distasteful act, and broadcasting it from the rooftops. You may disagree that tech raiding is bad, but it is a fact that the crass public face of \m/ is one of the main factors behind almost everyone outside the Initiative hating them. Slightly unfairly, \m/ retains an aura of disgrace to this day, and deliberately reprising its most infamous act is therefore stupid.

Also: Yes, this thread was posted by someone who is now no longer with us (OOC: banned again). But RAD have supported it throughout.

Question regarding the bolded part.

How exactly is tech raiding different than tech raiding them and telling the CN community that you tech raided them?

Everyone can go to the war decleration screen and view the war. The nation getting raided will lose the same amount of tech, same amount of infra, same amount of cash, same amount of land.

The "none" nation will be losing the exact same quantity of things, regardless whether their raider announces it or not.

How exactly is not mentioning it helping the situation out at all?

If anything, if you are against tech raiding, I would imagine that speaking out and talking about tech raiding would be something you would do in order to get the focus on it.

Instead, what happens? The alliance who announces it, such as \m/, and such as RAD here, gets demonified as if all tech raiding is their fault. What is truly happening is that tech raids happen all the time. Sanctioned alliances tech raid. Over half the alliances on the ~ side in the Unjust War tech raided. Alliances in One Vision tech raid. Alliances in the Continuum tech raid.

And, for that matter, the Gramlins themselves allow tech raiding, exactly like \m/ did. At least for a time, I admit I have not followed any changes you made to your charter since I was a member. But I do know Gramlins allowed tech raiding, I know because I was the 1 in a million case where I was tech raided by a Gramlin seconds after I was authorized to fly the Gramlin Applicant AA.

So how does allowing your members to tech raid but not mentioning it as an alliance change the reality of tech raiding?

How does allying yourself with alliances change the reality of tech raiding?

How does having one alliance who tells the world when they tech raid change any reality about tech raiding?

The truth is it doesn't change anything. What is happening here is all of you anti tech raiding folks are just looking for someone to vent your anger, or displeasure, at tech raiding to. You truly don't care about the "nones". You truly don't care about tech raiding, otherwise you would constantly be trying to get tech raiding to stop.

So all of you who have condemned RAD in this cherade truly must take a look at yourselves and if you truly are against tech raiding, take it up with those who can stop it, the Continuum and One Vision. Good luck though, because there are quite a few alliances here who either believe in tech raiding, or believe in having the freedom of their members to allow them to tech raid.

Also, if any of you actually think this thread was about tech raiding, then follow me into this other meeting hall, I have some time shares I want to sell you.

[Bob Janova]

How exactly is tech raiding different than tech raiding them and telling the CN community that you tech raided them?

The same way that it is different smoking a joint, and smoking a joint on the steps of a police station. One is an offence that can be ignored, the other is a taunt to authority and cannot be ignored. When you make a big public spectacle of it you are asking the opponents of the practice to make a big public counter-demonstration, and singling yourself out as the poster boy of the 'bad side'.

Yes, the Grämlins allow very limited tech raiding. I argue against it every time it comes up for discussion, but unfortunately () I do not run the alliance and I was defeated.

You truly don't care about tech raiding, otherwise you would constantly be trying to get tech raiding to stop.

Tell me, how should I go about that? Military enforcement does not work, as CNARF showed. Military resistance by the attacked does not work, as NONE/LoFN have shown. Attempts to persuade morally do not work, as can be seen in various threads (public and private) and in the continued support of tech raiding alliances by large allies who protect them.

Also, if any of you actually think this thread was about tech raiding, then follow me into this other meeting hall, I have some time shares I want to sell you.

You are correct. This thread is not really about tech raiding, it is about RAD saying that it is the heir to the mantle of \m/, picking a highly symbolic action to replicate.

[Ejayrazz]

How exactly is tech raiding different than tech raiding them and telling the CN community that you tech raided them?

Everyone can go to the war decleration screen and view the war. ...

The "none" nation will be losing the exact same quantity of things, regardless whether their raider announces it or not.

Making an alliance announcement over it is the dramatic difference.

How exactly is not mentioning it helping the situation out at all?

So it seems they are tech raiding for their beliefs instead of unnecessary attention.

Instead, what happens? The alliance who announces it, such as \m/, and such as RAD here, gets demonified as if all tech raiding is their fault. What is truly happening is that tech raids happen all the time. Sanctioned alliances tech raid. Over half the alliances on the ~ side in the Unjust War tech raided. Alliances in One Vision tech raid. Alliances in the Continuum tech raid.

But their style is dramatically different mate. This thread could almost be seen as a mockery to those nations. You need to realize not everyone shares the same beliefs pertaining to tech raiding, especially when they see a thread which, to them, is in-game morally reprehensible. You might not agree, but don't be surprised there are those who are opposed to a thread of this nature.

The truth is it doesn't change anything. What is happening here is all of you anti tech raiding folks are just looking for someone to vent your anger, or displeasure, at tech raiding to. You truly don't care about the "nones". You truly don't care about tech raiding, otherwise you would constantly be trying to get tech raiding to stop.

Odd thing, someone of your satire, respectfully, should be a little more..civil, due to your political status within your alliance mate. Let me give it to you like this.

Ben arrives at a party, massive drugs and alcohol are being either distributed or being used. Ben, however, neither smokes nor drinks, but he is going to a party to have a good time. He sees all sorts of things, such as naked midgets, beautiful women, and at one point he thought this one chick was hot, only to realize a few minutes later she was a man. He doesn't go to individuals and preach about how redundant it is to abuse their body. He is at a PARTY, there is no need to be an annoying pest, however, if the conversation arises pertaining to drug usage, he will merely say "I don't do it, you can, I don't care, but I don't and keep it at that.

Point is, not everyone against tech raiding is annoying and complainers. I don't see Bob being a radical advocate constantly stating in IRC channels, publicly and privately, how tech raiding is redundant. No, he doesn't, because he isn't an idiot. However, the conversation has raised and he is merely stating an opinion. He isn't just a person who wishes to "vent his anger on" those who oppose his opinion of tech raiding.

I am merely making a point to Caliph. I am more for individual rights rather than whether if tech raiding is acceptable. Good example is abortion believe it or not, I am against abortion, however I value the individual rights of woman to make their own decision, since it is THEIR body. Jason8 I like, he is a good mate, I wish him the best of luck with RAD, sincerely.

Edited February 15, 2009 by Ejayrazz

[Wad of Lint]

RAD serves to air the world's dirty laundry. Don't be disappointed if your britches show. Ours sometimes do.

[paultl]

If you have your AA as None surely you can expect you will get tech raided

Personally i don't like tech raiding, but you can do what you want RAD, however now might be a good time to point out that there is no tech raiding on Red, so if all you people in None want to stay there with no worry's your welcome on red.

[Tritonia]

How exactly is tech raiding different than tech raiding them and telling the CN community that you tech raided them?

Everyone can go to the war decleration screen and view the war. The nation getting raided will lose the same amount of tech, same amount of infra, same amount of cash, same amount of land.

The "none" nation will be losing the exact same quantity of things, regardless whether their raider announces it or not.

One is a practice of victimization of weaker and isolated parties that is justified because the raiding party benefits and is stronger. The other is the glorification of that action.

How exactly is not mentioning it helping the situation out at all?

In an immediate sense, it prevents putting the idea to tech raid into other people's heads. On a communal note, it prevents the practice from regathering social acceptance.

If anything, if you are against tech raiding, I would imagine that speaking out and talking about tech raiding would be something you would do in order to get the focus on it.

I do. Frequently, in fact. A 21 page thread about the subject now resides in the archives.

Instead, what happens? The alliance who announces it, such as \m/, and such as RAD here, gets demonified as if all tech raiding is their fault. What is truly happening is that tech raids happen all the time. Sanctioned alliances tech raid. Over half the alliances on the ~ side in the Unjust War tech raided. Alliances in One Vision tech raid. Alliances in the Continuum tech raid.

Tech raiding was not "all \m/ 's fault," nor is it RAD's fault. \m/ was, however, historically very responsible for establishing pride in the practice. I will do all I can to prevent that from happening again.

And, for that matter, the Gramlins themselves allow tech raiding, exactly like \m/ did. At least for a time, I admit I have not followed any changes you made to your charter since I was a member. But I do know Gramlins allowed tech raiding, I know because I was the 1 in a million case where I was tech raided by a Gramlin seconds after I was authorized to fly the Gramlin Applicant AA.

There is a difference between "allowing tech raiding" and "allowing tech raiding exactly like \m/ did." RAD actually has very impressive codified restrictions on tech raiding, some of which are better than \m/ 's, others not.

So how does allowing your members to tech raid but not mentioning it as an alliance change the reality of tech raiding?

How does allying yourself with alliances change the reality of tech raiding?

How does having one alliance who tells the world when they tech raid change any reality about tech raiding?

The truth is it doesn't change anything.

The truth is it encourages and perpetuates tech raiding.

What is happening here is all of you anti tech raiding folks are just looking for someone to vent your anger, or displeasure, at tech raiding to. You truly don't care about the "nones". You truly don't care about tech raiding, otherwise you would constantly be trying to get tech raiding to stop.

As anybody who knows me should be able to attest, I do, I have, and I will.

[Timeline]

Personally i don't like tech raiding, but you can do what you want RAD, however now might be a good time to point out that there is no tech raiding on Red, so if all you people in None want to stay there with no worry's your welcome on red.

I am not one for support another Sphere , how ever I have maxed out my messages for today, Getting people to join Sparta or join RED and stay safe.

[Joque Straap]

I am not one for support another Sphere , how ever I have maxed out my messages for today, Getting people to join Sparta or join RED and stay safe.

awwwwwwww, it's so cute how you try to protect everyone. Want to go have a cup of decaffeinated tea and discuss menstrual cycles?

[Wad of Lint]

Tech raiding was not "all \m/ 's fault," nor is it RAD's fault. \m/ was, however, historically very responsible for establishing pride in the practice. I will do all I can to prevent that from happening again.

I highly encourage you to put your money where your mouth is. RAD has plenty of lovely nations within your range! You might make some new friends.

I am not one for support another Sphere , how ever I have maxed out my messages for today, Getting people to join Sparta or join RED and stay safe.

Cookies are good. I often hand them out as rewards? Would you like a cookie?

Here, I'll just give you one:

[Caliph]

The same way that it is different smoking a joint, and smoking a joint on the steps of a police station. One is an offence that can be ignored, the other is a taunt to authority and cannot be ignored. When you make a big public spectacle of it you are asking the opponents of the practice to make a big public counter-demonstration, and singling yourself out as the poster boy of the 'bad side'.

I don't understand how we can be labelled as the "poster boy" for tech raiding, when tech raiding has existed for longer than RAD has, and will continue to last when, Admin forbid, RAD is gone.

Being vocal about raiding is not changing the core of the matter, and that is that tech raids happen.

Yes, the Grämlins allow very limited tech raiding. I argue against it every time it comes up for discussion, but unfortunately () I do not run the alliance and I was defeated.

Good to know you stand by your convictions. I remember that of you, and good to know you at least are not being hypicritical about this.

Tell me, how should I go about that? Military enforcement does not work, as CNARF showed. Military resistance by the attacked does not work, as NONE/LoFN have shown. Attempts to persuade morally do not work, as can be seen in various threads (public and private) and in the continued support of tech raiding alliances by large allies who protect them.

I'm not entirely sure, but policies like NPO's Moldavi Doctrine and the Citadels "Citadel Trading Company" help by giving None's protection in return for services renderred (providing trades, tech deals, etc).

You are correct. This thread is not really about tech raiding, it is about RAD saying that it is the heir to the mantle of \m/, picking a highly symbolic action to replicate.

We are not \m/.

However you are correct in that we duplicated one of the most hated actions that \m/ did.

I for one am tired of people criticizing \m/, and criticizing RAD, for that simply because tech raiding will continue to go on whether we talk about it or not. We aren't the first to tech raid, we aren't the last, and we don't even make up a large number of tech raiders. If you really want to change tech raiding, get IRON on bored. Get Continuum alliances and One Vision alliances to help you.

[Caliph]

OOC: My apologies for the back to back posts, the forum simply would not let me put my entire reply in one post.

IC:

Making an alliance announcement over it is the dramatic difference.

How does talking about tech raiding change the reality that nations are being tech raided by RAD members and people who aren't in RAD, people in sanctioned alliances even? How does talking about tech raiding change the reality that people are getting tech raided?

So it seems they are tech raiding for their beliefs instead of unnecessary attention.

The belief in our nations sovereignty, a concept that your alliances shares.

But their style is dramatically different mate. This thread could almost be seen as a mockery to those nations. You need to realize not everyone shares the same beliefs pertaining to tech raiding, especially when they see a thread which, to them, is in-game morally reprehensible. You might not agree, but don't be surprised there are those who are opposed to a thread of this nature.

I know not everyone shares the same views. Some like it, some don't care, others are against it. What I don't like is people who claim they don't like it, try posturing in threads like this, while their alliance has, in the past, and is currently, allied with alliances that tech raid. In threads such a dislike of tech raiding is rarely conveyed between those allies, so how is it not a hypicritical action to condemn RAD for things their own allies, and a large portion of alliances in existence today, perform this same action?

Odd thing, someone of your satire, respectfully, should be a little more..civil, due to your political status within your alliance mate.

I agree, I will be more civil in the future, I blame the numerous white russians I had while Caliphate was enjoying our Valentines Day celebration. It is a national holiday here.

Let me give it to you like this.

Ben arrives at a party, massive drugs and alcohol are being either distributed or being used. Ben, however, neither smokes nor drinks, but he is going to a party to have a good time. He sees all sorts of things, such as naked midgets, beautiful women, and at one point he thought this one chick was hot, only to realize a few minutes later she was a man. He doesn't go to individuals and preach about how redundant it is to abuse their body. He is at a PARTY, there is no need to be an annoying pest, however, if the conversation arises pertaining to drug usage, he will merely say "I don't do it, you can, I don't care, but I don't and keep it at that.

That is the viewpoint I respect. However not everyone in this thread, and in general, follows that line.

Let me give you an example.

Ben arrives at a party. He personally doesn't do drugs, but many of his friends do, and so do many of the people at the party. Ben walks around, having a good time, ignoring the drug use around him to the extent he doesn't even comment on it. Suddenly a girl stands up, and shouts in a loud voice "I'm going to do drugs over here". Ben doesn't know her, so he launches into a tirade about how drug use is wrong and if it were up to him all drugs everywhere would be stamped out. His friends, smoking joints, watch from the shadows. He doesn't mention his friends, or anyone else doing drugs, in his tirade, and focuses solely on the girl who said she was going to do drugs.

Your viewpoint, as in your example, is an honorable one, however the viewpoint I tried to show in my example is the viewpoint that most of the people against tech raiding in this thread have shown. I am against hypocricy, however you have not shown any. There are those here who have, though, and I'm trying to show how their viewpoint is flawed.

Point is, not everyone against tech raiding is annoying and complainers. I don't see Bob being a radical advocate constantly stating in IRC channels, publicly and privately, how tech raiding is redundant. No, he doesn't, because he isn't an idiot. However, the conversation has raised and he is merely stating an opinion. He isn't just a person who wishes to "vent his anger on" those who oppose his opinion of tech raiding.

And I can agree with his viewpoint. My apologies if I came off as harsh or overly critical of him personally, I was more venting my frustration at the hypocricy shown by several people in this thread. To clarify, he has not shown hypocricy, he was, as you said, merely stating his opinion. His opinion I can respect, as it is not based in hypocricy.

I am merely making a point to Caliph. I am more for individual rights rather than whether if tech raiding is acceptable. Good example is abortion believe it or not, I am against abortion, however I value the individual rights of woman to make their own decision, since it is THEIR body. Jason8 I like, he is a good mate, I wish him the best of luck with RAD, sincerely.

Just as I am for the individual rights of our nations. I am against people criticizing us for doing actions they either do, or that their friends do but they don't criticize their friends over it, only us.

The fact of the matter is that tech raiding won't go away. RAD, or \m/, announcing a tech raid will not, in any shape, way, or form, change the reality that tech raids will continue to occur. Painting us as the "poster boy" for tech raiding is simply false, as there are many more alliances, with more members, more NS, more nukes, and a sanctioned status, who tech raid. Warring us, or building a coalition against us for tech raiding would be extremely hypocritical. Note:this last paragraph is not so much stated at Ejay, but to people against tech raiding.

And lastly, thank you for the kind words, Ejay, I wish you well with your own alliance as well.

[Timeline]

awwwwwwww, it's so cute how you try to protect everyone. Want to go have a cup of decaffeinated tea and discuss menstrual cycles?

No thank you, going on what I have seen of RAD, when I turn my back my money would be gone from the table.

I highly encourage you to put your money where your mouth is. RAD has plenty of lovely nations within your range! You might make some new friends.

Only if you was in my range maybe we could make friends ?

Cookies are good. I often hand them out as rewards? Would you like a cookie?

Here, I'll just give you one:

No thank you, it was more then likely someone else's, who would want it back, when they find it missing.

Edited February 15, 2009 by Timeline

[WarriorConcept]

No thank you, going on what I have seen of RAD, when I turn my back my money would be gone from the table.

Only if you was in my range maybe we could make friends ?

1. You obviously don't know RAD that well.

2. Aww, a threat. You ARE learning something!

[Wad of Lint]

Only if you was in my range maybe we could make friends ?

I'll wait. I like friends.

Edited February 16, 2009 by Wad of Lint

[Lady Ariana]

...I find it amusing and mean at the same time...

[Ejayrazz]

I know not everyone shares the same views. Some like it, some don't care, others are against it. What I don't like is people who claim they don't like it, try posturing in threads like this, while their alliance has, in the past, and is currently, allied with alliances that tech raid.

I will be making a topic on this soon, I will send you a link.

The general idea is, people do not care if you tech raid, making a public mockery of them is downright rude. Yes, physically it doesn't do a thing to the nations, public shame is just as bad, even worst in most cases.

[Sephiroth]

I found the OP amusing, although its not nice tech raiding! )):

[Tritonia]

I highly encourage you to put your money where your mouth is. RAD has plenty of lovely nations within your range! You might make some new friends.

I have put my money where my mouth is. All of my infrastructure as well, as a matter of fact. Yet you still seem to think I'm not totally prepared to watch your soldiers waltz into my nation and send my government into anarchy while I tell my alliance mates and friends to let you.

If it will make you feel better, I highly encourage you to hit me. If you're just posturing, stop wasting my time.

And though I assume you meant it sarcastically, I really would like to make some new friends in RAD.

[Jason8]

I have put my money where my mouth is. All of my infrastructure as well, as a matter of fact. Yet you still seem to think I'm not totally prepared to watch your soldiers waltz into my nation and send my government into anarchy while I tell my alliance mates and friends to let you.

If it will make you feel better, I highly encourage you to hit me. If you're just posturing, stop wasting my time.

And though I assume you meant it sarcastically, I really would like to make some new friends in RAD.

Hey, if you want to hang out and shoot the breeze a little, feel free to stop by our IRC Channel. Maybe we can shoot the breeze, get intoxicated, and have some drunken relations? I would very much appreciate that!

RAD webchat

Just type in your name and click Connect.

[Zombie Glaucon]

etc.

Drew Carey?

[Earogema]

Image of cookie.

Now I really want a cookie. Son of a...

Also, the replies in this thread are hilarious/expected.

[Mr Duffy]

I highly encourage you to put your money where your mouth is. RAD has plenty of lovely nations within your range! You might make some new friends.

HYPOCRITICAL MUCH?

I hope your friends take notice of your actions before they go crying around next time....

OK ARES?

I for one am tired of people criticizing \m/,and criticizing RAD

Then stop making lame threads and pawning them off as "fun".

You knew this was gonna get attention.

Its attention you wanted.

You got said attention.

Good or bad you didnt care.

Now you blame it ALL on one person that was "banned" and you "didnt know" who this person was. (didnt know or didnt WANT to know)

But yet you say you had the support of everyone around you be it your own Govt or other allies.

either way its been a poor show on RAD from the get go.....

[WarriorConcept]

I have put my money where my mouth is. All of my infrastructure as well, as a matter of fact. Yet you still seem to think I'm not totally prepared to watch your soldiers waltz into my nation and send my government into anarchy while I tell my alliance mates and friends to let you.

If it will make you feel better, I highly encourage you to hit me. If you're just posturing, stop wasting my time.

And though I assume you meant it sarcastically, I really would like to make some new friends in RAD.

So...all I read was more posturing.

[Tequila Mockingbird]

Planet Bob needs more alliances like this, otherwise we're just a bunch of moralistic stat-wh@#es.