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Open letter to Planet Bob


Francesca

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(OOC) This letter is regarding the way most people post on the forums. I don't know if this means I should put OOC tags on, so I'll put them there just in case.

This is not addressed to any particular alliance, as I think all alliances have these sorts of people in them.

Firstly, I am absolutely scathing about the little content that goes into many people's posts. If all you have to say is "o/ x alliance," then ffs, DON'T POST. Likewise, if all you have to say is "x alliance sucks," then guess what? ffs, DON'T POST. If you have justification for your hails or your condemnation of certain alliances, go ahead and post it. Then the justification you provide can be discussed and debated, and many of the lies on these boards can be addressed through evaluation of the evidence. You people don't seem to realise, but nobody is interested in your opinion without justification.

Secondly, a related issue to the first, I would like to point out that when certain people post people just point and laugh. For instance, I heartily dislike King Penchuk, but I am absolutely disgusted that when he occasionally presents good arguments people rebut them with a post like "lol penchuk" and consider the argument over. Regardless of who people are, regardless of whether you like them or not, you should take people's arguments seriously and rebut them properly. Yes, the identify of the person posting those comments is important, because perhaps they are being hypocritical. If this is the case, point it out to them, and say WHY.

If these basic guidelines are kept, it will make for a much more interesting time on these boards. Thank you, that is all. (OOC)

o/ rant

lol Francesca

PROTIP: Lighten up a bit...skip or ignore the people that annoy you, read the posts with content.

PROTIP #2: Ignore anyone with a Vox tag

That is all...and please, have a nice day.

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Naaa man, so long as nobody is breaking the rules, they should post as they like. I mean, you can always simply skip over the posts you don't like and avoid the threads you don't like altogether.

Maybe if you were being forced to read every thread, then yeah, you should get some say in what get's posted, but you're not.

But that is part of the point! It is time consuming to skip past those kinds of posts when there are so many and often they're all in a row. Two pages of posts might have 4 of substance and the rest clutter that gets really boring to wade through. To those that say 'well, don't read the thread' ... do you realize that is the same as telling someone to stop visiting the CN forum? -- because there are so many threads with that malady.

It is an annoyance, to say the least; a reason to stop trying to find interesting posts to read at the worst.

I don't think it is caused by particularly rude intentions -- though it can come off that way with the LOL FAN type of posts -- it is more like posters that play 'follow the leader' and don't care to take time or effort to have or display their unique opinion.

I would support a minimum character count for posts and enforced warnings to those that abuse it -- eg. 6-letter character minimum ... abused with a post like "Go Go Go".

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I disagree. People who post without content don't do it for "reactionary threads such as this one," they do it simply without thinking. That is what I am encouraging them to stop doing.

Well, defensive reactions are the ultimate goal of a troll, after all; that seems to be self-evident. Or, perhaps, you were referring to those who would simply post with their normal habits, omitting punctuation, shortening and abbreviating common words and ignoring capitalization. In that case, although it may irk you, are they really doing it in bad faith? If there is no harm in their words, why must they go out of their way to post in a way that you, a faceless name on the internet, find acceptable?

You haven't adequately explained why that is.

Explain what? Are you attempting to argue that there are real life consequences to this game for someone who merely plays for fun? Someone who donates and actively participates in politics will be mindful of their comportment, but others, who are just in it for the fun, have nothing to lose by acting outside the conventions of etiquette (lol, etiquette in Cybernations,) and nothing to gain by acting the way you believe to be acceptable.

(OOC) Subjectivity of etiquette is an issue, however I remind you that the vast majority of people who play this game and read these forums adhere to a particular type of etiquette in real life. I am presenting my views on what that etiquette involves. (OOC) I find it depressing that in a thread that is dedicated to trying to eradicate trolling, you go out of your way to troll it.

Might I remind you that this is a game? I would also like to remind you that this is a role-playing game, in other words, it is expected that players will adopt a new persona and play as someone different from themselves. Someone with a different set of morals and motives. Far be it from your authority to tell them otherwise. I will also point out that there are no established laws of discipline like there are in the real world. Politics in Cybernations have evolved completely separately from the world you keep referring to. Sure, we may all inject a variable amount of our own personalities into our persona, but there will always be differences between the real life character and the fictional one, especially if one endeavors to do so. For instance, I am actually a small pig with no regard for where I micturate. I eat mixtures of alfalfa and cow intestines for lunch, but you won't see me complaining.

No comment.

Yea, I wouldn't either.

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o/ OP

Just kidding with the hail.

Great comments and luckily I even changed my alliance tag from Vox so your prescribed ignore function will allow my comments to be visiblle.

Hailing is a curious phenomenon in that the more the members of Alliance X hails (or denies there is anything to hail), the more you know.

Yeah, the mindless posting bothered me for a while too until I learned to look at the number of mindless posts and denials/affirmations, which themselves explain almost everything.

That's why the NPO issues forum posting bans. They know this while their allies are not always so astute.

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If there is no harm in their words, why must they go out of their way to post in a way that you, a faceless name on the internet, find acceptable?

Not just me, but many like me.

Explain what? Are you attempting to argue that there are real life consequences to this game for someone who merely plays for fun? Someone who donates and actively participates in politics will be mindful of their comportment, but others, who are just in it for the fun, have nothing to lose by acting outside the conventions of etiquette (lol, etiquette in Cybernations,) and nothing to gain by acting the way you believe to be acceptable.

I think reading these forums would be a lot more fun without pointless posts. See the messages of support in this thread for other players who think similarly. The thing is, these ideals are rather common, something you seem desperate to ignore.

Might I remind you that this is a game? I would also like to remind you that this is a role-playing game, in other words, it is expected that players will adopt a new persona and play as someone different from themselves. Someone with a different set of morals and motives. Far be it from your authority to tell them otherwise. I will also point out that there are no established laws of discipline like there are in the real world. Politics in Cybernations have evolved completely separately from the world you keep referring to. Sure, we may all inject a variable amount of our own personalities into our persona, but there will always be differences between the real life character and the fictional one, especially if one endeavors to do so. For instance, I am actually a small pig with no regard for where I micturate. I eat mixtures of alfalfa and cow intestines for lunch, but you won't see me complaining.

Etiquette and morality are just as relevant on Cyber Nations as they are in real life. It doesn't matter whether you are playing a game or not: many, many people appreciate it when you adhere to that form of etiquette.

I must say, it's quite obvious why YOU of all people wouldn't support an movement to eradicate pointless posts from this community.

Edited by Francesca
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Mindless posts are easy to skip. I mean a "o/" isn't any worse than a "I like this announcement, and I support those who made it". And I just translate "lol X" into "I don't like X and discount everything they/he/she say(s) due to passed idiocy." I don't really like those posts and wish they were less prevalent, but I hate longer incomprehensible ones more where people try to make really deep moral/philosophical arguments that are usually either sophmoric or pedantic, and almost always irrelevant. My favorite posts are short, witty, relevant, and original. It's all about context. For example, in this thread I was waiting for and was glad to see the first "o/ Francesca."

I agree that it would be nice, but I don't see it as a huge problem. If people want to make useless posts that I don't even have to pause my scrolling for, more power to them. It makes them feel involved. For the most part, I assume if we actually got rid of o/ and lol X we would either get (a) less activity on the forums, and I don't like to exclude people even if they are useless, or (B ) longer equally pointless posts, which would simply waste more of my time.

Edited by Trinite
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For the record, I like your fourth paragraph (if you include 1 sentence paragraphs as paragraphs). Unfortunately nothing will change, and things will soldier on as they always have. Good luck in your endeavor, I won't hold my breath though.

EDIT: zomg our =/= your

Edited by Willaim Kreiger
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Mindless posts are easy to skip. I mean a "o/" isn't any worse than a "I like this announcement, and I support those who made it". And I just translate "lol X" into "I don't like X and discount everything they/he/she say(s) due to passed idiocy." I don't really like those posts and wish they were less prevalent, but I hate longer incomprehensible ones more where people try to make really deep moral/philosophical arguments that are usually either sophmoric or pedantic, and almost always irrelevant. My favorite posts are short, witty, relevant, and original. It's all about context. For example, in this thread I was waiting for and was glad to see the first "o/ Francesca."

Agreed, actually. "I don't like X and discount everything they/he/she say(s) due to passed idiocy." is just as bad as "lol X," or almost. But neither of those two hypothetical posts have any content, which is what this thread is truly about. (oh, and btw, I guessed that someone would o/ me :D !) And I don't have a problem with that, humour is great in context and it's certainly not pointless, which is the issue that this thread is addressing.

I agree that it would be nice, but I don't see it as a huge problem. If people want to make useless posts that I don't even have to pause my scrolling for, more power to them. It makes them feel involved. For the most part, I assume if we actually got rid of o/ and lol X we would either get (a) less activity on the forums, and I don't like to exclude people even if they are useless, or (B ) longer equally pointless posts, which would simply waste more of my time.

But the thing is, there's no dichotomy of "make a pointless post" or "stay out of the forum and feel excluded." Those hailers/ trolls/ otherwise pointless posters can change their behaviour and make substantial posts, and feel even more part of this community than if they had just hailed.

Edited by Francesca
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But the thing is, there's no dichotomy of "make a pointless post" or "stay out of the forum and feel excluded." Those hailers/ trolls/ otherwise pointless posters can change their behaviour and make substantial posts, and feel even more part of this community than if they had just hailed.

You have a much higher opinion of those posters than I do. If that was the alternative, I'd totally agree with you, but I think if many of them tried to add substance they would fail and waste more of everyone's time. For those who wouldn't fail, I think if they had something substantive to say they would just say it and throw the o/ at the end. (Full disclosure: I do that from time to time though I usually use :wub: instead of o/. Just as meaningless, but less facist). If I'm wrong, and there are quality posters out there with something to say and are deciding to just throw hails around, then I'm completely with you, but I don't see it. If o/ is all they got, then to each their own.

Thinking about it here, this is probably less true with the lol X. Those are usually decent posters just being dicks, and I'm with you there. They should know better, and could do better. I think most of those are posters simply getting sick of rebutting the same persons same arguments. If it's a decent argument, then you should comeback with a decent argument. If it's not, then for god's sake don't quote it and make everyone read it again/ bump the topic.

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Even a decent discussion ends up most times with a "no u". The same arguments from both sides are repetitive and in the end it´s about who posted it more often to claim "victory", to claim i told the truth, i´m right you are wrong. Whether this "pseudo" discussion was politly and with etiquette or a flamefest.

The main problem is no one discuss a serious issue on OWF thus the discussion here are meaningless and tend to be well meaningless ending like i pointed out in my first statement.

In 99% you will not change the opinion from someone by presenting the better arguments, not in PUBLIC aka OWF.

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I pay attention to everyone who presents an interesting post, regardless of their alliance tag. Did you even rid the OP?

Yes, I read the OP...but apparently my subtle response evaded you. I'll play it again.

PROTIP: Lighten up a bit...skip or ignore the people that annoy you, read the posts with content.

PROTIP #2: Ignore anyone with a Vox tag

In other words, Vox posts are annoying and lack content.

I only respond to them because I enjoy getting their panties all in a bunch.

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Even a decent discussion ends up most times with a "no u". The same arguments from both sides are repetitive and in the end it´s about who posted it more often to claim "victory", to claim i told the truth, i´m right you are wrong. Whether this "pseudo" discussion was politly and with etiquette or a flamefest.

The main problem is no one discuss a serious issue on OWF thus the discussion here are meaningless and tend to be well meaningless ending like i pointed out in my first statement.

In 99% you will not change the opinion from someone by presenting the better arguments, not in PUBLIC aka OWF.

No, in 99% they will not admit it. The point isn't to change their minds anyway, it's to make them look like an idiot so people are more inclined to take your side. Of course, nobody does this anymore because you can force them to take your side just by flexing your muscles and destroying anyone who does not.

I only respond to them because I enjoy getting their panties all in a bunch.

You're so full of it.

Vox nations cannot afford panties.

Edited by Doitzel
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You have a much higher opinion of those posters than I do. If that was the alternative, I'd totally agree with you, but I think if many of them tried to add substance they would fail and waste more of everyone's time. For those who wouldn't fail, I think if they had something substantive to say they would just say it and throw the o/ at the end. (Full disclosure: I do that from time to time though I usually use :wub: instead of o/. Just as meaningless, but less facist). If I'm wrong, and there are quality posters out there with something to say and are deciding to just throw hails around, then I'm completely with you, but I don't see it. If o/ is all they got, then to each their own.

Thinking about it here, this is probably less true with the lol X. Those are usually decent posters just being dicks, and I'm with you there. They should know better, and could do better. I think most of those are posters simply getting sick of rebutting the same persons same arguments. If it's a decent argument, then you should comeback with a decent argument. If it's not, then for god's sake don't quote it and make everyone read it again/ bump the topic.

I just might be falling in respect with you.

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This is DEFINITELY the first rant that has been posted on this subject. There is NO DOUBT that the forums will change as a result.

Honestly I agree with the sentiment but you've just got to learn to accept the good with the bad.

No this is not the first rant on this subject. Also, terrible post.

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(OOC) This letter is regarding the way most people post on the forums. I don't know if this means I should put OOC tags on, so I'll put them there just in case.

This is not addressed to any particular alliance, as I think all alliances have these sorts of people in them.

Firstly, I am absolutely scathing about the little content that goes into many people's posts. If all you have to say is "o/ x alliance," then ffs, DON'T POST. Likewise, if all you have to say is "x alliance sucks," then guess what? ffs, DON'T POST. If you have justification for your hails or your condemnation of certain alliances, go ahead and post it. Then the justification you provide can be discussed and debated, and many of the lies on these boards can be addressed through evaluation of the evidence. You people don't seem to realise, but nobody is interested in your opinion without justification.

Secondly, a related issue to the first, I would like to point out that when certain people post people just point and laugh. For instance, I heartily dislike King Penchuk, but I am absolutely disgusted that when he occasionally presents good arguments people rebut them with a post like "lol penchuk" and consider the argument over. Regardless of who people are, regardless of whether you like them or not, you should take people's arguments seriously and rebut them properly. Yes, the identify of the person posting those comments is important, because perhaps they are being hypocritical. If this is the case, point it out to them, and say WHY.

If these basic guidelines are kept, it will make for a much more interesting time on these boards. Thank you, that is all. (OOC)

I do find it intriguing when people makes posts like this then we find them just as guilty as what they are ranting against...

SIGGED.
Good luck to both parties.
Wow. Congratulations, I guess.
Congratulations indeed.
Congratulations indeed.
/me likes DICE's flag a lot :D
Cool.
o/ MCXA

o/ Polaris

o/ BLEU

This was not an easy decision for our government.

I'm sure those all added quite important and revolutionary insights to the posts being replied to and did not add little or no content, aye?

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I do find it intriguing when people makes posts like this then we find them just as guilty as what they are ranting against...

I'm sure those all added quite important and revolutionary insights to the posts being replied to and did not add little or no content, aye?

You deliberately ignored all the posts that I have made that DO have content. Also, as has already been pointed out in this thread, sometimes posts can be more meaningful in context. Furthermore, I never said that I had never congratulated anyone on anything, but what concerns me is the large number of people who fail to post anything important, ever.

Even a decent discussion ends up most times with a "no u". The same arguments from both sides are repetitive and in the end it´s about who posted it more often to claim "victory", to claim i told the truth, i´m right you are wrong. Whether this "pseudo" discussion was politly and with etiquette or a flamefest.

The main problem is no one discuss a serious issue on OWF thus the discussion here are meaningless and tend to be well meaningless ending like i pointed out in my first statement.

In 99% you will not change the opinion from someone by presenting the better arguments, not in PUBLIC aka OWF.

Sadly, you are probably right. It is difficult to change people's opinions on here. That doesn't mean that we can't post meaningful arguments at all to persuade others of the validity of our position.

Yes, I read the OP...but apparently my subtle response evaded you. I'll play it again.

In other words, Vox posts are annoying and lack content.

I only respond to them because I enjoy getting their panties all in a bunch.

On many occasions Vox posts lack content, I agree with you. The same could be said of the NPO, or anyone else. But often Vox posts make life more interesting, in my opinion, because they argue what everyone else doesn't want to say... but trolling, from anyone, Vox or whoever else, is unacceptable.

You have a much higher opinion of those posters than I do. If that was the alternative, I'd totally agree with you, but I think if many of them tried to add substance they would fail and waste more of everyone's time. For those who wouldn't fail, I think if they had something substantive to say they would just say it and throw the o/ at the end. (Full disclosure: I do that from time to time though I usually use :wub: instead of o/. Just as meaningless, but less facist). If I'm wrong, and there are quality posters out there with something to say and are deciding to just throw hails around, then I'm completely with you, but I don't see it. If o/ is all they got, then to each their own.

Thinking about it here, this is probably less true with the lol X. Those are usually decent posters just being dicks, and I'm with you there. They should know better, and could do better. I think most of those are posters simply getting sick of rebutting the same persons same arguments. If it's a decent argument, then you should comeback with a decent argument. If it's not, then for god's sake don't quote it and make everyone read it again/ bump the topic.

Very good points, Trinite..... but personally, I believe that there is nobody on these boards who is incapable of making a decent post. They just need to get into the habit. And I agree with your second paragraph.

Edited by Francesca
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You deliberately ignored all the posts that I have made that DO have content. Also, as has already been pointed out in this thread, sometimes posts can be more meaningful in context. Furthermore, I never said that I had never congratulated anyone on anything, but what concerns me is the large number of people who fail to post anything important, ever.

No, I'm just not the one sitting here trying to claim:

Firstly, I am absolutely scathing about the little content that goes into many people's posts. If all you have to say is "o/ x alliance," then ffs, DON'T POST. Likewise, if all you have to say is "x alliance sucks," then guess what? ffs, DON'T POST

I'm not the one complaining about things only to find that you yourself are guilty of that which you rant against. Before you complain about others and their post content maybe you should look at what you are saying in your own posts. If you want to rant against my, just take a look at what I've quoted and then look at all the quotes I've posted that have come from you. Sounds to me like the pot calling the kettle black.

/me shrugs

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