alpreb Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 He's been fighting since New Year's in Vox. He was in peace mode before that. He was NV before that. And yeah, he lost strength, but he clearly wasn't "beaten" as indicated by him still fighting. The only reliable way to kill off warchests is a perpetual state of billlock via extended wars. What I don't get is this: With the amount of wonders he has and his tech level suggest that he was of considerable size when War of the Coalition started. Let me pull a number out of my behind and just say 7k infra and 1.6k tech. According to CN wiki, Nueva Vida was in the war from 14th-23rd of august 2008, clearly not enough to chew through so much infra even with nukes nor any warchest since collection is not made in nuclear anarchy. Between that period of Nueva Vida's surrender and new year's eve he must have fought someone either as unaligned or another banner (or was NV engaged in another war?). The war "they" fought must have failed to bring him down to the ZI club, but that can hardly be attributed sucky NPO military skills unless they have fought him at an earlier point and failed to keep him in billock. If so I would be inclined to agree that NPO should have done a better job. Some loss is to be expected in war and certainly in the kind a Vox member would find themselves in. The fact that he can still create and maintain nukes speaks to the level of damage (or lack thereof) he's taken. Depends on his warchest and how long the intermediary war he fought lasted and how much he spend to give his foes a run for their money it should not have been an issue to have tens of millions when reaching 1k infra. That kind of money can keep your nation running for a long, long time at that NS range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilrow Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Since Dec 31, he has been in 14 wars total defensively (11 of those have expired) ranging from ODN and NPO attackers and 8 offensive wars (5 of those expired) on GGA, ODN and NPO nations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Republic of Roma Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 My peak was before the BLEU war where I had 9000.00 infra flat, and over 2000 tech (the amount of tech kept increasing, while infra did not). I fought 2 Gremlins over 100k NS and 1 MHA or someone, with $220 mil reserved in an all-out nuclear war that put me down to 4600-so infra. After that I went to peace mode until Dec. 31st, attacking 3 of the highest NS nations I could attack and going through the cycle from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruHartBrakN Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 If this and if that. Show me some cold hard facts (as seen one page back) and we'll talk. The cold hard facts are that Roma was once a large nation and has been able to keep his military wonders (especially that pesky MP) and probably had a pretty decent warchest. There is no way on earth even 6 small NPO nations would be able to put up a fight with him. An NPO member with the same wonders and nuclear capabilities, however, would bring Roma to ZI very quickly. If you need to draw yourself a graph or something, go right ahead but the math is still the same. What is this second time? MK has only fought NPO once. Sorry I don't have a great memory which is why I qualified the statement with "by my count." My count is obviously wrong I suppose. Either way, the sentiment stands. MK has surrendered to NPO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Azaghul, how many times has your alliance been bested by the NPO in war? The fact is MK has surrendered to NPO twice by my count. There is no doubt that MK has a SICK military and could have held out longer (especially in the last war) but for you to constantly deride NPO as a paper tiger type alliance after being beaten by them seems like sour grapes to me. Look at the conversation that post was at the end of. The point is NPO hasn't fought or won an even remotely even war in a very long time. Defeating an alliance you outnumber 5-1 and that you bring in numerous large allies to help against doesn't really prove your military prowess. On a tactical military level, we greatly outclassed NPO. It's because they were 5 times as large as us and held a superior diplomatic position that we lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) On a tactical military level, we greatly outclassed NPO. If you mean simple math of declaring on 3 nations, and having to be declared by 3 nations and then nuking all 6 every day while they can nuke you only once and thus making for a short time bigger damage, its just something that those who are going on a one way ticket to defeat can do. Except for buying a lot of SDI which we are, I do not know exactly what could be done to avoid this simple dynamic of game mechanics. Greatly outclassed is a powerful word about it as is for you utter defeat in that war. Remember, gratis life use it wisely , also a "thank you NPO" from time to time wouldn't hurt ;D Edited February 3, 2009 by Branimir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstep Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 If you mean simple math of declaring on 3 nations, and having to be declared by 3 nations and then nuking all 6 every day while they can nuke you only once and thus making for a short time bigger damage, its just something that those who are going on a one way ticket to defeat can do. Except for buying a lot of SDI which we are, I do not know exactly what could be done to avoid this simple dynamic of game mechanics. Greatly outclassed is a powerful word about it as is for you utter defeat in that war. Remember, gratis life use it wisely , also a "thank you NPO" from time to time wouldn't hurt ;D Same way TOP/GRE could outclass others... Game mechanics lend themselves to that, the lesser numbers should deal a much greater damage to the greater numbers with the greater numbers eventually overwhelming the smaller numbers (when they run out of a warchest) Quality would be arguing that you had higher activity/better coordination etc., which doesn't appear to be a factor in the most recent war Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) If you mean simple math of declaring on 3 nations, and having to be declared by 3 nations and then nuking all 6 every day while they can nuke you only once and thus making for a short time bigger damage, its just something that those who are going on a one way ticket to defeat can do. Except for buying a lot of SDI which we are, I do not know exactly what could be done to avoid this simple dynamic of game mechanics. Greatly outclassed is a powerful word about it as is for you utter defeat in that war. Remember, gratis life use it wisely , also a "thank you NPO" from time to time wouldn't hurt ;D While our nuclear members had an advantage in exchanging nukes, conventionally it was the exact opposite and that impacted all our nations not just those with nukes, and everyone faced (or should have been facing) nations larger than them. Also you allowed us the opportunity to each have those 6 wars when you didn't have to. There was nothing forcing you to give us 3 people to nuke in our defensive slots, for instance. And there are other things you could have done (that didn't just involve more SDIs) but that's for you to figure out. Edited February 3, 2009 by Azaghul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 War is hell, can create a lot of damage when fighting a suicidal opponent. Comes with the territory, as does victory ultimately. Certain steps can always be made to maneuver better for a better overall result. If nothing, I am sure that our consistency of over 3 years of prosperity and progress proves we can learn from our experiences to advance ourselves. Also, where is the thank you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 War is hell, can create a lot of damage when fighting a suicidal opponent. Comes with the territory, as does victory ultimately.Certain steps can always be made to maneuver better for a better overall result. If nothing, I am sure that our consistency of over 3 years of prosperity and progress proves we can learn from our experiences to advance ourselves. It can create a lot of damage, but there are things you can do and not do to limit that damage, and there are several things NPO didn't do to limit it that you could have. Yea you still won for the same reason you've won all your other wars since GW2, outnumbering your opponent by 5-1 odds or more, rarely facing an opponent that didn't roll over. That isn't proof of military prowess, it's diplomatic prowess. Even in a nuclear war, a big alliance should be able to get a lot better than a 1-1 damage ratio on a smaller alliance if they are of equal military skill. Also, where is the thank you? Given our history, I think we hardly have anything to "thank" NPO for, and I'll leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwoody Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Yeah, this whole thread is kinda based on the premise that 10k NS nations who recently rolled will have the experience and nation capabilities to take on an older nation knocked down to that range who has experience and military wonders. Its just not going to happen, save for a few prodigy-types who just instantly master the game. That said, I'm sure you're providing amazing war experience for NPO's lower tiers. The REASON no one cares enough to sell infra to come down to your level is because you're not really hurting them, you're just existing and providing training. Okay, cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchior Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) I just think there's a certain group of people that consistently try to get the Pacifica's attention. I'm sure that when you've done enough damage to make a scratch in the militaristic pride the Order holds, you will be annihilated. Just like the rest of the group that wants attention. Edited February 6, 2009 by Melchior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcades057 Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Nuking to put someone in anarchy is nothing to brag about. That's something that a monkey can do with little difficulty (No, I have not tried this with a monkey but I am interested in doing so) The nations he is fighting are getting war experience that they can use, as well as experience in the field of being outnumbered/outgunned, which as many have pointed out is very rare in the NPO. We are usually the ones outnumbering/outgunning the opposition, so these lessons are rather difficult to teach to people at the lower ranks. Also, not to burst anyone's bubble, but the repair cost to fix nations of that size after having been nuked by rogues is insignificant. In a few weeks they'll be bigger than they were before the wars, if not sooner. In a few weeks you'll be 0 infrastructure, in peace mode, planning which 1000 NS nations in the Order to attack. Have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generalissimo Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) The only real answer is to have a large NPO nation or two sell off their infra and get down to his level. Then I think we could see a fair fight and I'm very confident Roma would not be starting bragging threads. It would be so easy for Pacifica to curb stomp Republic of Roma, and possibly the entirety of Vox/Fan, if they were willing to allocate proper resources to the endeavor. Everyone seems to know the failsafe solution would be for the NPO to bring several equivalent nations down to the level of their antagonists, but Pacifica is apparently not devoting any serious effort to a counterinsurgency. Edited February 3, 2009 by Generalissimo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilber Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) Given our history, I think we hardly have anything to "thank" NPO for, and I'll leave it at that. Might want to ask Archon on that, because I'm pretty certain he'd disagree. Edited February 3, 2009 by Dilber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firestorm Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Yeah, this whole thread is kinda based on the premise that 10k NS nations who recently rolled will have the experience and nation capabilities to take on an older nation knocked down to that range who has experience and military wonders. Its just not going to happen, save for a few prodigy-types who just instantly master the game.That said, I'm sure you're providing amazing war experience for NPO's lower tiers. The REASON no one cares enough to sell infra to come down to your level is because you're not really hurting them, you're just existing and providing training. Okay, cool. You know you gotta hate life when your whole existence in CN comes down to this. Talk about barely remaining relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uaciaut Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Might want to ask Archon on that, because I'm pretty certain he'd disagree. This made me lol pretty hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earogema Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) Yeah, this whole thread is kinda based on the premise that 10k NS nations who recently rolled will have the experience and nation capabilities to take on an older nation knocked down to that range who has experience and military wonders. Its just not going to happen, save for a few prodigy-types who just instantly master the game.That said, I'm sure you're providing amazing war experience for NPO's lower tiers. The REASON no one cares enough to sell infra to come down to your level is because you're not really hurting them, you're just existing and providing training. Okay, cool. I'm tired of this mindset. Look, all of you. War is not difficult. It never was difficult. It will never be difficult. Most of the war system is via number generation, and you people all know it. You click a few times, and bam, there you go. You have enough money, and you're fine. 99% of war is preparation. Your infra, tech, land, and improvements, and wonders will all impact how war is waged. TORN knows this better than anyone. You are flat out lying if you honestly think that war is difficult, or that for a 10k nation, it is difficult. I knew the EXACT same strategies back then, as I do now, and guess what? They work the exact same. The only difference is that I wasn't ever nuked in that range, but members of TRF can tell you, I was nuked in the last war, and I still fought as hard as was possible. Hell, if the TORN war guide is the same as it used to be, I knew EVERYTHING that guide said back when I was at 2k. That guide was the same for the entire 6 months of my tenure. There is no experience gained at the 10k level, because if they honestly don't know how to fight by now, if they honestly don't know how to deploy and click a few buttons, then they are doomed, and will be doomed every time. As for the wonders, yeah, he's got them there. 99% of war is preparation. If you don't have the necessary materials, that's a shame, but hey, that's why TORN was so focused on buying SDI's when they first came out. Also, the real reason nobody cares to sell infra is because they enjoy that efficiency mark. As for "just rolling" these are not brand new nations Bigwoody. http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...ation_ID=201920 - 369 days http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...ation_ID=248077 - 196 days http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...?Nation_ID=3055 - An AMAZING 1074 days old http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...ation_ID=216702 - 308 days old http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...ation_ID=263404 - 143 days old (this one I'll let slide) And here's your proof: http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.as...&Extended=1 Right in the OP nonetheless. You know you gotta hate life when your whole existence in CN comes down to this. Talk about barely remaining relevant. Ten page thread shows he's more relevant than you could ever be. Edited February 3, 2009 by MegaAros Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) That isn't proof of military prowess, it's diplomatic prowess. I was not only talking about improving ourselves diplomatically, but also military over time. It is unquestionable considering our success and position in the world. As well as, my proud dwarf warrior, the thing is those two are the faces of the same thing in a war. They are complementary things and not seeing them as such and using one to undermine the meaning and value of the other comes from a bit childish reasoning. As does your message of "We greatly outclassed NPO military wise and I did this amount of damage, received this amount of damage, and my friends did this amount of damage as we totally did brilliantly,......only thing is we suffered a heavy defeat and our alliance was well on its way to turn into fine dust" which your conveying some time now. Though, in all honesty, its a source of a constant amusement for me and I do wish you continue repeating it. Gives me something to do. Given our history, I think we hardly have anything to "thank" NPO for, and I'll leave it at that. Excellent. Edited February 3, 2009 by Branimir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I was not only talking about improving ourselves diplomatically, but also military over time. It is unquestionable considering our success and position in the world. As well as, my proud dwarf warrior, the thing is those two are the faces of the same thing in a war. They are complementary things and not seeing them as such and using one to undermine the meaning and value of the other comes from a bit childish reasoning. As does your message of "We greatly outclassed NPO military wise and I did this amount of damage, received this amount of damage, and my friends did this amount of damage as we totally did brilliantly,......only thing is we suffered a heavy defeat and our alliance was well on its way to turn into fine dust" which your conveying some time now. Though, in all honesty, its a source of a constant amusement for me and I do wish you continue repeating it. Gives me something to do. Prowess in one arena can make up for a lack of it in another, so it's not really unquestionable. Of course they are complimentary, but just because they are complimentary doesn't mean that success in one leading to victory proves greatness or improvement in the other or that the two can't be separated as factors. You haven't had the need to prove or show superior military efficiency in a long time because diplomacy and numbers has won your wars and only required at most average military efficiency. Hats off to you for showing diplomatic prowess and ability to make yourselves large, because those two factors are what have led you to victory in every war for about the last two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Republic of Roma Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I've noticed a lot of posts condemning any form of praise or admiration for my actions, and calling my actions unfair to the smaller nations of NPO. My justification for attacking NPO is the same as their justification for attacking GATO, for like the 10th time, or their justification for attacking GPA, or other small alliances in wars they've always had the upper hand in. I am fighting for my survival, freedom, and ideology, which NPO has also stated as its justification for curb stomping a smaller alliance they deemed a threat to their survival, and their ideology. And although it is true I have an upper hand, that was also true for NPO in every war they've waged since GW2, and then have the arrogance to boast about it everywhere on the forums, while here are its members condemning the very actions that got them on top, and kept them there. This was also not a thread to brag about my actions, it was a thread to seek out someone who would challenge me and save NPO from my partying and dancing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbuck Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Nice work, congradulations on the hard work. I don't want to join in the argument, but it is impressive to see this, as a young pup to the game, I would like to take a shot at you, would you mind? It would be nice to get commentary from a as you put it "old war dog" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchior Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I've noticed a lot of posts condemning any form of praise or admiration for my actions, and calling my actions unfair to the smaller nations of NPO. My justification for attacking NPO is the same as their justification for attacking GATO, for like the 10th time, or their justification for attacking GPA, or other small alliances in wars they've always had the upper hand in. I am fighting for my survival, freedom, and ideology, which NPO has also stated as its justification for curb stomping a smaller alliance they deemed a threat to their survival, and their ideology. And although it is true I have an upper hand, that was also true for NPO in every war they've waged since GW2, and then have the arrogance to boast about it everywhere on the forums, while here are its members condemning the very actions that got them on top, and kept them there. This was also not a thread to brag about my actions, it was a thread to seek out someone who would challenge me and save NPO from my partying and dancing. How unexpected to find a ruler from Vox Populi believing that NPOs actions are justified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Republic of Roma Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 How unexpected to find a ruler from Vox Populi believing that NPOs actions are justified. They are, if you support their ideology of oppressing leaders of other alliances, curb stomping other alliances for any hint of dissent, abandoning promises, and breaking treaties. That is not the ideology I fight for. I'm actually in the fight for my very survival, while NPO was rarely in a fight for its survival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The AUT Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Yeah, this whole thread is kinda based on the premise that 10k NS nations who recently rolled will have the experience and nation capabilities to take on an older nation knocked down to that range who has experience and military wonders. Its just not going to happen, save for a few prodigy-types who just instantly master the game.That said, I'm sure you're providing amazing war experience for NPO's lower tiers. The REASON no one cares enough to sell infra to come down to your level is because you're not really hurting them, you're just existing and providing training. Okay, cool. NPO's lower tiers are massive and I highly doubt 6 wars is going to provide them with amazing war experience considering this isn't an even match by any means. He's demolishing them due to his large amounts of wonders and his nukes, some of the damage he's producing is ungodly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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