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Mostly Harmful Alliance - "The Response"


thaisport
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Wow...

Where to begin...

Reading BG's thread I made this simple observation, it was heart felt but looked on the verge of a breakdown. It's very hard to respond to someone when many things have been lost in translation.

I'll try to keep this clear and simple by using bullet points.

* Thread I'm responding to: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=46631

* Plotting Wars - This is a war game and plotting is part of war. That being said I haven't plotted against TPF. Now that this situation broke out, I can say a war will happen, so you know ahead of time.

* TPF WAPA NAAW - I disagree with TPF for sending WAPA in to fight NAAW regardless of whether BG's intention was good or not. I have learned that no war is fair or right. NAAW will hate me for saying this but if TPF was wronged TPF should have gone fought NAAW directly even if TPF the odds heavily favored TPF. If TPF when in first and WAPA followed we would not be discussing this today.

* WAPA Surrender Post - Joke or no Joke, people need to realize that surrender terms are taken seriously on the forums. There was no "just kidding" involved. It was very straight and to the point only to be edited at MI request when it was told that such request was not appropriate.

* GDA entering the war - After WAPA made those surrender comments, GDA decided to enter the war. GDA was also unofficially treatied with TPF but NOT with WAPA. GDA in no way attacked TPF. BG did communicate to GDA but did so when GDA was getting involved. The communication should have taken place earlier.

* MHA support for GDA - When GDA enter the fray, MHA supported GDA. MHA does not have a treaty with WAPA and so chooses to support GDA. At that time I did not know about TPF's involvement in the WAPA / NAAW war. Shortly after BG approached me and I told him I disagreed with his actions.

* Poor Communication - Attacks begun on GDA but no official DoW was declared. Shortly after both side were trying to sort things out. 2 days passed and attacks increased. Though we now know the order for peace went out, there have been a sting of failure to comply. This could be distention or a failure to read communication PM. This is not an excuse government officials should use to buy time. It can be read as a stall tactic for maximum damage towards GDA. GDA escalated her attacks but the wars are defensive wars.

* MHA's warning to the involved nations - I wrote a Declaration of Warning to TPF, UN, and WAPA. Many asked how I could do that since we were assumed to have a treaty with TPF.

* Treaty Fact - I audited our treaties and found no written record of such. When I took over MHA i should have audited our treaties then but transition into power during war, I assume my treaty knowledge was accurate as told to me by my staff. This treaty was assumed carried over from round 2.

My stance on this matter is very clear, I started a thread about carrying over issues from prior rounds. This belief applies to everything, agreements included. CNte is founded on rounds and when one ends a new one begins. Treaties are no different.

* MHA plotting against TPF - Up until this incident, MHA hasn't plotted against anyone. In fact to the delight of some or annoyances of others, MHA has remained out of most conflicts this round because I believe in diplomacy. MI has even pointed that out on a previous thread about how MHA sits peacefully at the top.

FAQ for everyone:

1. Is MHA and Judgment going to war with TPF? Yes

2. Why? Because I don't appreciate the actions of TPF in the way she handled this situation. Because I already drew the line for when this was supposed to be resolved and that deadline passed. Because a war is what people want.

3. Did you want to attack TPF? No. I was asked this by GDA and this was not the answer they probably wanted to hear but I'm not going to lie about it. I also said if the time came to act I will have no problems doing so.

4. Ok, so if that deadline was the evening of the 28th, then why are you posting this now? I have a life outside CNte and yes 01/28/2009 was my birthday in real life.

5. Arn't you worried about what people will think? I am already painted as a back stabber by BG and people will believe what that want. I can only do what is right for MHA and the Judgment Reborn Bloc. Those that have seen my posts and have tried to read between the lines will find that I'm a pretty fair and honest guy who doesn't like warring much at all. If I could sit out in peace without being bothered I'd probably do it, but there's not CNte Econ edition is there?!

6. Any words for BG? Yes, I apologize for any stress believe I caused you. You should not be turned off by this game because of the warring actions people take. War is never fair, never honorable, and never clear. Yet we all play this game because it allows us to be our alter egos and fight cool wars and launch nukes when in the real world reality, it is the last thing we want in the world for ourselves and our families. This is a game. Please don't take anything personal. If my actions have come off as such, I apologize for those actions but I will not apologize for playing this game of CNte, a game I enjoy because everyone whether you agree with their ideas or not, makes it fun.

Thaisport

Edited by thaisport
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Thaisport, great post. You have been one of the Roman Empires most reliable and helpful friends, and you don't deserve the crap some people are giving you. We're proud to have you with us. o/ Thaisport :wub: !

Caesar43

And by the way, Happy Birthday :)

Edited by ceasar43
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2. Why? Because I don't appreciate the actions of TPF in the way she handled this situation. Because I already drew the line for when this was supposed to be resolved and that deadline passed. Because a war is what people want.

The only further thing we could have done to resolve this was to start hacking nations and forcing peace that way.

Glad to see you're such a good friend, thai.

Anyway, shall we consider this the official judgement decleration?

Edited by Bionic redhead
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thai, dont lie. You know how hard I worked yesterday to get this resolved. Even after I talked to GDA and NAAW and they both agreed that they would start to accecpt our peace offers and start to end this, you STILL insisted on attacking us. Even AFTER I had this resolved. If you want to attack TPF, fine, but dont lie about it.

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o/ bullet points and bolded font :)

Very classy post from a leader that has demonstrated good sportsmanship and fair play.

Good luck to both sides!

<S>

Fish

Note to BG: Watch your health, step back, deep-breath, and now have some fun.

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5. Arn't you worried about what people will think? I am already painted as a back stabber by BG and people will believe what that want. I can only do what is right for MHA and the Judgment Reborn Bloc. Those that have seen my posts and have tried to read between the lines will find that I'm a pretty fair and honest guy who doesn't like warring much at all. If I could sit out in peace without being bothered I'd probably do it, but there's not CNte Econ edition is there?!

^ I lol'd that's the next game by CN the boring econ game :P

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great post thaisport. this is exactly what needed to be said. i am happy to be in your staff and i hope all works out for all parties involved. sorry about all that's happened TPF, but it happens. hopefully we can start anew next round.

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Well...it was easy to read and pretty blunt. That's my style so kudos on it. Although...I don't particularly like half of TE gang-banging TPF. But I'm in no position to do anything other then talk due to my own conflict's.

Round 3 has ended, best of luck to everyone in round 4.

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2. Why? Because I don't appreciate the actions of TPF in the way she handled this situation. Because I already drew the line for when this was supposed to be resolved and that deadline passed. Because a war is what people want.

What else did you want us to do to keep our nations from attacking, besides sending orders to peace out out?

Edited by youwish959
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Wow...

* WAPA Surrender Post - Joke or no Joke, people need to realize that surrender terms are taken seriously on the forums. There was no "just kidding" involved. It was very straight and to the point only to be edited at MI request when it was told that such request was not appropriate.

[

remember this. CNTE changes at my whim, people would do well not to forget this.

oh almost forgot to make a comment about judgment gangbanging another alliance. How convient that the MHA's treaty "audit" took place while this controversy was brewing and becoming more and more controversial.

Attacking our allies is an extremely bad idea judgment.

Edited by elborrador
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thai, dont lie. You know how hard I worked yesterday to get this resolved. Even after I talked to GDA and NAAW and they both agreed that they would start to accecpt our peace offers and start to end this, you STILL insisted on attacking us. Even AFTER I had this resolved. If you want to attack TPF, fine, but dont lie about it.

KDII, I am not taking away anything you did because you actually tried for hours on end. And I was considering a treaty with you guys to make it formal proposed to me by Ferdinand on IRC. I was talking to both of you online in IRC. You asked if you could get more time, my answer was no. Ferdinand also talked for me a bit and offered to work on a treaty. We were talking and then he said never mind after talking to BG because he needed to sort things out. I commend him for trying.

As for lying about it, just ask people who've asked me for their IRC logs. Again I have nothing to hide or lie about.

oh almost forgot to make a comment about judgment gangbanging another alliance. How convient that the MHA's treaty "audit" took place while this controversy was brewing and becoming more and more controversial.

LoL, my esteemed CNte colleague on the opposite side elborrador, if we want to play conspiracy theory we can flip the situation around as say that TPF had people lined up against MHA and when she was ready TPF would say we never signed anything and give grounds for war and blitz. Now I'm not saying this was their plan but as you can see, people can spin things however they like, including you Master Spin Doctor :P

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LoL, my esteemed CNte colleague on the opposite side elborrador, if we want to play conspiracy theory we can flip the situation around as say that TPF had people lined up against MHA and when she was ready TPF would say we never signed anything and give grounds for war and blitz. Now I'm not saying this was their plan but as you can see, people can spin things however they like, including you Master Spin Doctor :P

As an ally of TPF, we surely would have known about said plans and would have been more than happy to help them, if this were the case. However its not.

You can sit in your garage all day and say "i'm a car, i'm a car, i'm a car" but you can't change reality Thai. MHA has a bad habbit of backstabbing allies when its convient for them to do so, to say otherwise is a flat lie.

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This remains unanswered, I would like your answer thai. <_<

You didn't have a choice... you guys were in a CATCH 22. Regardless of what you do it wouldn't work. You couldn't escalate the issue because it would have brought war, but if you didn't back WAPA up then you guys would look really bad and still end in a war. So that said, again the answer is you couldn't have done anything that would have work because the situation was a no win situation.

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