The war that keeps getting bigger

[metal]

NAAW's side totals:

Members: 167 (-5)

Strength: 270,177(-47,261)

Nukes: 17 (no change)

Anarchy: 91 (+3)

Blackwater's sides total:

Members: 206 (-2)

Strength: 533,036(-1,636)

Nukes: 71 (+7)

Anarchy: 32(+8)

what about those numbers seem remotely even? almost 40 more nations on BWs side. and more than double the NS. not to mention the number of nukes BW's side has vs NAAW's. sorry but i am not seeing anything remotely even about this....

now with GDA's entrance, NAAW's side has more nations, a slight edge in NS but BW still has more nukes. so that looks far more even than the above stats.

Just a little late to the party is all.

Those may be the current stats but it's a direct result of alliances becoming fed up with larger ones preying on smaller ones simply because they can.

[KingDingaLing]

Or like offering peace only because you know the hammer is falling?

We could go around and round. We already did. The facts are there. I'd rather not do it again. I was just looking for an answer to maybe if that was worded wrong or something

If I really thought I couldnt have gotten peace like I said, I would have gone ahead and started on Mash BW and LE since I knew of the plot.That was my biggest mistake thinking you guys were civil. That would have turned the war completely different. But since im such a bully I tried to work things out to no avail, Im stuck on the infra losing side of this war. Your peace terms are complete bs because if thats what you wanted you would have accepted it the day before.

[thaisport]

...

Edited January 7, 2009 by thaisport

[metal]

Your peace terms are complete bs

How much lighter could they get? Honestly?

All everyone keeps PM'ing me is your being a stubborn as all get out, and completely refusing things.

Seriously it may be in the regular NAAW memberships best interest to have you step aside, at least temporarily so they can get some peace. I'm being made aware they want it.

[KingDingaLing]

How much lighter could they get? Honestly?

All everyone keeps PM'ing me is your being a stubborn as all get out, and completely refusing things.

Seriously it may be in the regular NAAW memberships best interest to have you step aside, at least temporarily so they can get some peace. I'm being made aware they want it.

Do you want me to let you into our forums and see a Poll that proves otherwise ?

[BluRaider]

Great War III, if it escalates even more, which I hope it doesn't

Great War I was the best ever, IDIOT + MI + allies vs Genius vs SF + Fark (3 WAY FTW)

Great War II was the Judgement vs MI + allies, actually I wouldn't call this one a great war because the chance MI had to win the war, but they would've had a chance if they actually helped MI.

At the mean time, I would call it, The "your peace term sucks" war

[Tiberius C Nero]

Great War III, if it escalates even more, which I hope it doesn't

Great War I was the best ever, IDIOT + MI + allies vs Genius vs SF + Fark (3 WAY FTW)

Great War II was the Judgement vs MI + allies, actually I wouldn't call this one a great war because the chance MI had to win the war, but they would've had a chance if they actually helped MI.

At the mean time, I would call it, The "your peace term sucks" war

Your forgetting about MCXA vs IDIOT + Islamic Brotherhood + Federation of Armed Nations + Bucket of Chicken, etc, etc.(Blue civil war) That, my friend was a brawl.

[BluRaider]

Your forgetting about MCXA vs IDIOT + Islamic Brotherhood + Federation of Armed Nations + Bucket of Chicken, etc, etc.(Blue civil war) That, my friend was a brawl.

i wasn't here back then, but it says in wiki that the Great War: TE Version is the IDIOT- Genius War

[Azhrarn]

The "Don't Pee in Our Yard and Tell Us it's Raining" war.

[Tiberius C Nero]

i wasn't here back then, but it says in wiki that the Great War: TE Version is the IDIOT- Genius War

Simply put. IDIOT tried to recruit our entire alliance (MCXA:TE, round 2), as they put it no other alliances could co exist with them on Blue. They then started sanctioning our members. We attacked. Everybody on IDIOT's side of the fence (WUT I believe) hit back. IDIOT then used senators on the green and orange teams

and started sanctioning people that were helping us (MCXA:TE). It was TE's first and only sanction war.

It was a brawl. They were fighting to assimilate us and we were fighting for our sovereignty.

[KingDingaLing]

The I wont accept peace till I blitz you war

[Tiberius C Nero]

The I wont accept peace till I blitz you war

Watergate lol, I couldn't resist.

[George the Great]

This whole situation has helped me realize that people, at least in TE, don't understand what mutual defense means and they think that an ally coming to the aid of their treaty partner, whom they promised to defend in the treaty that they share, is a horrible and deplorable act.

I, personally, can't believe some people are keeping their word either, it's despicable.

A quick summary of events:

NAAW declares on Blackwater because they were dicking around a bit. NAAW offers virtually the same peace terms that the BW, M*A*S*H, LE, CDT and Genesis coalition is now offering to NAAW and Blackwater rejects. Blackwater and co. update attack NAAW and offer them virtually the same peace terms that they were offered a few hours prior, NAAW declines as well. Instead of getting update attacked like NAAW did, M*A*S*H goes ahead and update attacks an ally of NAAW's, GREAT (with whom they have a not so great history with), before GREAT even had a chance to decide if they were capable of helping defend NAAW (We were having a meeting while we got attacked). While they were still attacking, an ally of M*A*S*H offers the same peace terms that were given to NAAW, to GREAT (which didn't make sense for GREAT since we didn't attack anyone). GREAT declares on M*A*S*H in it's defense itself, and since we're at it anyway, help our allies out at NAAW whom we are treatied with. GDA then comes in to defend their allies and much bawing ensued. Blackwater's allies are allowed to defend Blackwater, because they're on Blackwater's side. NAAW's allies, however are evil and oppressive regimes since they keep their word and defend their allies when they're getting reamed. Then, to top it all off, you have BW trolling every thread about this war and even the peace talks we had tonight in #RomanEmpire. Virtually everyone was going about it with a lighthearted sense of humour, and then you had insults being thrown at NAAW by BW's representative. It's sad that the peace talks, which otherwise went pretty well, were ruined by that.

The war could have easily remained between NAAW and BlackWater as peace had been offered before their allies intervened. If you folks did not want this war to escalate, then NAAW, who has friends that have friends, should not have been attacked after they offered peace. When it's an ODP... fine, you can complain and allege bandwagoning, but complaining that MDP partners are doing what they promised... come on...

Since we were dragged into this war for no apparent reason anyway, we're going to stick with NAAW to the end, regardless of the consequences. If they accept the peace terms that were given out tonight, then so will we. If not, then I guess we're going to get ZIed together, we'll go down proud knowing that we're at our treaty partner's side. Also, BlackWater alleging that the war was even prior to GDA joining is pretty hilarious.

EDIT: I nominate this war's name to be: "Boy, that escalated quickly [... I mean, that really got out of hand fast]"

In reference to Anchorman. The part inside the brackets would be optional. We should keep the propaganda out of the name, if this war is to have one.

Edited January 7, 2009 by George the Great

[King Death II]

Wargate lol, I couldn't resist.

fix'd

[Dagrr]

George! Up early I see!

A quick summary of events: NAAW declares on Blackwater because they were dicking around a bit.

For those who want to know what Blackwater thinks rather then read bias that is tried to be passed as fact, NAAW tech raided one of our training company members around December 27th. We responded the way we always do with tech raiders who attack us, we attacked back. NAAW attacked us back. Then the whole thing snowballed. At some point we talked to Kingdingle about peace and he accepted. I was not the guy at the negotiation. From what I can tell from our private forums, one of our Blackwater guys got attacked again after he sent peace. So then we had a little brawl going, though Blackwater as a whole was not engaged. The thing that really kicked off the party was NAAW first strike nuking us on 12/31/08 and then spying away one of our nukes on 1/1/09. I'll be the first one to admit the situation was confused but...

NAAW doesn't dispute the nuke attack or the spying and evidence can be read here.

Per our TE SOP, that was a declaration of war on us and Operation SHTF commenced. You can debate the whole sanctioning thing if you want to, but I think its been talked to death in the other threads. Fact is, we will use any and all in-game means to defend ourselves and our allies. Our inital blitz happened on the 1/1|1/2 update.

NAAW offers virtually the same peace terms that the BW, M*A*S*H, LE, CDT and Genesis coalition is now offering to NAAW and Blackwater rejects. Blackwater and co. update attack NAAW and offer them virtually the same peace terms that they were offered a few hours prior, NAAW declines as well.

We have discussed this here and in private channels over and over and over again. The peace terms offered by the NAAW did not include any written guarantee of this not happening again by way of a NAP or other signed agreement. So what if your alliance has to bleed a little bit because you don't like the terms; it has happened again and again and again in standard and TE. We wanted terms both we and our allies would be happy with. For the record, our friends didn't jump in until 1/3|1/4 update. That gave NAAW a full 48 hours to pound us.

Instead of getting update attacked like NAAW did, M*A*S*H goes ahead and update attacks an ally of NAAW's, GREAT (with whom they have a not so great history with), before GREAT even had a chance to decide if they were capable of helping defend NAAW (We were having a meeting while we got attacked). While they were still attacking, an ally of M*A*S*H offers the same peace terms that were given to NAAW, to GREAT (which didn't make sense for GREAT since we didn't attack anyone). GREAT declares on M*A*S*H in it's defense itself, and since we're at it anyway, help our allies out at NAAW whom we are treatied with.

This you're going to have to sort out with MASH.

GDA then comes in to defend their allies and much bawing ensued. Blackwater's allies are allowed to defend Blackwater, because they're on Blackwater's side. NAAW's allies, however are evil and oppressive regimes since they keep their word and defend their allies when they're getting reamed.

Looking at the GDA thread, I'm not seeing anything that constitutes bawwing. There are a couple of complaints about GDA entering the war 24 hours before a DoW but thats to be expected. If you really want to talk about bawwing, you should consult the "unfair tactics" thread.

Then, to top it all off, you have BW trolling every thread about this war and even the peace talks we had tonight in #RomanEmpire. Virtually everyone was going about it with a lighthearted sense of humour, and then you had insults being thrown at NAAW by BW's representative. It's sad that the peace talks, which otherwise went pretty well, were ruined by that.

[OOC]If you think someone is trolling on the forums here, report it to moderation, don't discuss it in this thread[/OOC]

This is the part that really bothers me, mainly because it concerns me personally so I'll devote some time refuting your attack on my character. "Trolling" as I understand it does not constitute us saying what you do not want to hear. I am curious as to what you think I said at the peace talks that you think was trolling. If you could give exact quotes or screenshots of stuff I said which offended you personally that would be helpful. From what I remember off hand, I did say something to the effect of "NAAW had 48 hours to have their way with us. And they failed. " Which is completely true.

But since you brought up the peace talks, I'm seem to remember there was some discussion by your party to the effect of "Blackwater are cowards who hide behind their allies." Sethly, a NAAW representative, definitely did propose some outrageous things about "NAAW having a free fire on Blackwater for another round of wars". Someone also said they would give our allies peace but Blackwater would still be attacked. All this may have set me off a bit. I would not be a very good representative for my alliance if I let those things happen, would I?

We did get a 26 hour ceasefire out of it, so I would hardly say "I ruined the peace talks". If we really want to have a successful peace talk, we need a controlled environment moderated by a third party with exactly one representative from each alliance.

(I should note I can't remember the exact quotes, but if someone wants to pull up FULL logs and post them, go ahead)

The war could have easily remained between NAAW and BlackWater as peace had been offered before their allies intervened. If you folks did not want this war to escalate, then NAAW, who has friends that have friends, should not have been attacked after they offered peace. When it's an ODP... fine, you can complain and allege bandwagoning, but complaining that MDP partners are doing what they promised... come on...

Since we were dragged into this war for no apparent reason anyway, we're going to stick with NAAW to the end, regardless of the consequences. If they accept the peace terms that were given out tonight, then so will we. If not, then I guess we're going to get ZIed together, we'll go down proud knowing that we're at our treaty partner's side.

I don't think I have complained about any alliance coming in, except possibly yours. That was because you admitted that you did not see the war declared earlier by GREAT on MASH. It was on the first page of the war screen before the GREAT-MASH thing kicked off. To me, it is the responsibility of the leader of an alliance to monitor the wars declared by his AA and if he finds that one of his members attacked an alliance, to take the initiative of sorting it out first before the violated party comes to him. Its the whole policing your own alliance thing which I have said again and again and again.

Also, BlackWater alleging that the war was even prior to GDA joining is pretty hilarious.

Pure grandstanding. NAAW had the drop on us in the early going as evident by our mostly full defensive slots. Of course the momentum shifted when our allies came in, just as it shifted back your way when GDA came in. Surely you notice that we always have peace talks right before or after a new party joins in? The shifting tides are what make this fun.

In short, almost your entire post slanders Blackwater and is rather troubling when one considers a ceasefire is in effect and we're coming back to talk peace tonight.

Edited January 7, 2009 by Henry

[Azhrarn]

I hope these peace talks include a discussion regarding the fate of rogue nations, such as the NAAW member who nuked me on 1/3/2009 (supposedly w/o gov't approval per NAAW Sethly) and the NAAW member who launched bombing runs and ground attacks in violation of the cease fire even though I was already in Anarchy.

Edit. Make that two rogues who launched bombing runs in violation of the cease fire. C'mon NAAW, if you're that terrified of my little nation coming out of Anarchy, why don't you just drop another nuke on me and be done with it?

Edited January 7, 2009 by Azhrarn

[Burning Glory]

George! Up early I see!

For those who want to know what Blackwater thinks rather then read bias that is tried to be passed as fact, NAAW tech raided one of our training company members around December 27th. We responded the way we always do with tech raiders who attack us, we attacked back. NAAW attacked us back. Then the whole thing snowballed. At some point we talked to Kingdingle about peace and he accepted. I was not the guy at the negotiation. From what I can tell from our private forums, one of our Blackwater guys got attacked again after he sent peace. So then we had a little brawl going, though Blackwater as a whole was not engaged. The thing that really kicked off the party was NAAW first strike nuking us on 12/31/08 and then spying away one of our nukes on 1/1/09. I'll be the first one to admit the situation was confused but...

NAAW doesn't dispute the nuke attack or the spying and evidence can be read here.

Per our TE SOP, that was a declaration of war on us and Operation SHTF commenced. You can debate the whole sanctioning thing if you want to, but I think its been talked to death in the other threads. Fact is, we will use any and all in-game means to defend ourselves and our allies. Our inital blitz happened on the 1/1|1/2 update.

We have discussed this here and in private channels over and over and over again. The peace terms offered by the NAAW did not include any written guarantee of this not happening again by way of a NAP or other signed agreement. So what if your alliance has to bleed a little bit because you don't like the terms; it has happened again and again and again in standard and TE. We wanted terms both we and our allies would be happy with. For the record, our friends didn't jump in until 1/3|1/4 update. That gave NAAW a full 48 hours to pound us.

This you're going to have to sort out with MASH.

Looking at the GDA thread, I'm not seeing anything that constitutes bawwing. There are a couple of complaints about GDA entering the war 24 hours before a DoW but thats to be expected. If you really want to talk about bawwing, you should consult the "unfair tactics" thread.

[OOC]If you think someone is trolling on the forums here, report it to moderation, don't discuss it in this thread[/OOC]

This is the part that really bothers me, mainly because it concerns me personally so I'll devote some time refuting your attack on my character. "Trolling" as I understand it does not constitute us saying what you do not want to hear. I am curious as to what you think I said at the peace talks that you think was trolling. If you could give exact quotes or screenshots of stuff I said which offended you personally that would be helpful. From what I remember off hand, I did say something to the effect of "NAAW had 48 hours to have their way with us. And they failed. " Which is completely true.

But since you brought up the peace talks, I'm seem to remember there was some discussion by your party to the effect of "Blackwater are cowards who hide behind their allies." Sethly, a NAAW representative, definitely did propose some outrageous things about "NAAW having a free fire on Blackwater for another round of wars". Someone also said they would give our allies peace but Blackwater would still be attacked. All this may have set me off a bit. I would not be a very good representative for my alliance if I let those things happen, would I?

We did get a 26 hour ceasefire out of it, so I would hardly say "I ruined the peace talks". If we really want to have a successful peace talk, we need a controlled environment moderated by a third party with exactly one representative from each alliance.

(I should note I can't remember the exact quotes, but if someone wants to pull up FULL logs and post them, go ahead)

I don't think I have complained about any alliance coming in, except possibly yours. That was because you admitted that you did not see the war declared earlier by GREAT on MASH. It was on the first page of the war screen before the GREAT-MASH thing kicked off. To me, it is the responsibility of the leader of an alliance to monitor the wars declared by his AA and if he finds that one of his members attacked an alliance, to take the initiative of sorting it out first before the violated party comes to him. Its the whole policing your own alliance thing which I have said again and again and again.

Pure grandstanding. NAAW had the drop on us in the early going as evident by our mostly full defensive slots. Of course the momentum shifted when our allies came in, just as it shifted back your way when GDA came in. Surely you notice that we always have peace talks right before or after a new party joins in? The shifting tides are what make this fun.

In short, almost your entire post slanders Blackwater and is rather troubling when one considers a ceasefire is in effect and we're coming back to talk peace tonight.

Henry this has got to be the first time i remember you bring up things that really don't push for more waring, I would also like to say

that i agree whith a lot of the things you have said here. Where as I've always stated that BW used aggressive and excessive defense tactics for a simple raid,

I also feel it takes 2 to tango.

It appears that at least the war has come to a halt even if for a short time, this is a step in the right direction.

I just wish I could of achieved this 2 days ago when i pleaded for a peace between the 2 AA's.

Congrats Guys!!

BG.

[Satsukage]

I'm still hoping for an offcial announcement of Armistice. I've accepted the peace offers of my targets against NAAW hoping that the cease fire will lead to peace with no more fighting.

Anyways I'm happy that their was no attacks on my nation during the cease fire

[metal]

Do you want me to let you into our forums and see a Poll that proves otherwise ?

I hope you enjoy your current poll numbers Bill. The fact that you continue to decline peace can only mean they will decline and more members will come to us to surrender.

[metal]

This whole situation has helped me realize that people, at least in TE, don't understand what mutual defense means and they think that an ally coming to the aid of their treaty partner, whom they promised to defend in the treaty that they share, is a horrible and deplorable act.

I, personally, can't believe some people are keeping their word either, it's despicable.

A quick summary of events:

NAAW declares on Blackwater because they were dicking around a bit.

Stopped reading here. For the love of Admin-almighty. I've gone over this a thousand times. Stop this nonsense if you don't know why this war is rolling in the first place, its fairly important to this whole mess.

[Neo Uruk]

I hope you enjoy your current poll numbers Bill. The fact that you continue to decline peace can only mean they will decline and more members will come to us to surrender.

Bill is actually a terrific leader, despite what you may think. He's kept a level head while talking to me the few times he has, as has the rest of NAAW.

[metal]

Bill is actually a terrific leader, despite what you may think. He's kept a level head while talking to me the few times he has, as has the rest of NAAW.

I'm not bashing him entirely mind you, after all he is my Archnemesis.

However continually throwing his own alliance and his allies into a war that began by NAAW's aggression and unwillingness to relent in such (until they were made aware of outside forces) is pretty crappy. If I was allied to him given all the proof , I'd want him to accept peace as soon as possible, then definitely re-evaluate whatever treaties we may/may not have due to how he conducts his alliance towards a "lesser" alliance.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again. He's no Arctic. Every single one of the NAAC members who reads this I'm sure feels that deep inside we wouldn't be in this situation if he was.

But hey, it's TE, morals out the window, right?

(OK that ended up kinda being a bash, but it wasn't PRIOR. )

[Satsukage]

This is ridiculous, even after the cease fire the war isn't over. The peace offer was yet again declined. I really thought that it was over but it seems it just started

If GDA really wants peace, talk to NAAW about accepting the peace offers.

[popsumpot]

Satsukage is correct. After another round of what was seemingly a promising peace talk, NAAW has again rejected the offer of white peace.

[King Death II]

Looks like NAAW likes the war. Hmmm maybe they have a strategy. I guess we will find out soon enough.