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CNRP OOC Thread


Stormcrow

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{From the other thread}

Ok KM, I hear you. If two nations merge together, one having been hit with a massive smackdown IC, they can come back with more than they ever individually had, even though you maintain tech does not add.

Or maybe we could apply a fair rule? Because I think Nova Roma and the United Francoist Empire are both due in for a massive power boost, considering that both those nations did exactly what you did, and even have a IC bonus, in that none of their nations were ever razed IC?

Or would you like to decline them that bonus and horde it for your self?

I am saying that if some people get bonuses for merging (well it has to be, neither of them were ever that big) then shouldn't all merge nations? Or should we stop the stupidity, and therefore just cut out all exceptions to the play by your stats?

I'm in favour of actually making people play to their stats. Simple. You merge? So what. The new nation has the tech of the highest merging part, and the sum of the infra and land. What more, people can only control proportionally what they added to said merged nation.

That way merged nations, re rolls and normal nations all sit on an even footing.

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What more, people can only control proportionally what they added to said merged nation.

I believe that's for the merged players to decide. While New Rome go for individual actions, UFE seems to be Triyun centric, and Nordland is basically Brian "serving" Martens.

Also, about the "exceptions": Finalize the database with what we can agree on, and stick with it. No more of this damn whining about "exceptioons"

Edited by Sumeragi
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I believe that's for the merged players to decide. While New Rome go for individual actions, UFE seems to be Triyun centric, and Nordland is basically Brian "serving" Martens.

So, we have people gaining from merging, while others are on par with normal nations. And here I was thinking we could agree on a fair playing field!

Also, about the "exceptions": Finalize the database with what we can agree on, and stick with it. No more of this damn whining about "exceptioons"

Easy. IG stats, recorded. If you suffer a IG loss once your stats have been recorded, you are allowed to continue playing at those stats unless you suffer a IC loss, then you return to your new, lower IG stats.

Its fair, and nobody can say that it pick on people.

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Regarding Martens Tech Sharing:

OOC: I left peacemode in order to have the nation die in order to leave the game, but the CNRP stats are frozen. This was already discussed, to this is meaningless, it was agreed that it'd be BR's technology added to a part of my technology, I already also here stated that it wasn't just 1+1 style, but there was a reasonable middleground. Besides, I still did RP more tech advancements or economic developments than most people out there, so I have more RP to back up my numbers. If you don't agree, then don't RP with me, simple as that. I just find it funny that you bring it up when you guys want to fight me, but before when you didn't have to fight me you were alright with what was decided, lol double standards.

This points are simply false. Exhibit A is Tahoe Empire and Proxian Empire. When Polar got rolled in game, everyone pretty much agreed that these two Empire's lost their RP strength along with their in game strength. Tahoe used to be a 55 k nation, now he is not.

Secondly, the notion that we did not have issue with it before is laughable:

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1100744

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1100960

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1101019

Finally here is HK-47s post regarding this issue in particular: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1101657

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1102022 <--- My response

HK-47 Agreeing Martens needs to give a specific number of his own not a merged monstrosity number: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1102875

As we can plainly see not only has a moderator said that Marten's current tech level which is a merged one is not the proper one, but additionally this is not me or anyone else bringing this issue up, we had objections to it before when the subject of Marten's tech arose weeks before Tion was invaded.

Edit:

I'm in favour of actually making people play to their stats. Simple. You merge? So what. The new nation has the tech of the highest merging part, and the sum of the infra and land. What more, people can only control proportionally what they added to said merged nation.

This is what we do for our nation, Triyunican tech is the ceiling atm.

I believe that's for the merged players to decide. While New Rome go for individual actions, UFE seems to be Triyun centric, and Nordland is basically Brian "serving" Martens.

We have an Imperial Government where I run the show yes. We are one nation though, and for therefore there is one foreign policy. My SOI btw is large enough to control the entire area politically.

Edited by Triyun
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So, we have people gaining from merging, while others are on par with normal nations. And here I was thinking we could agree on a fair playing field!

I was focusing on the use of military force, not tech. I agree with "stick to the highest tech of the mergers".

Easy. IG stats, recorded. If you suffer a IG loss once your stats have been recorded, you are allowed to continue playing at those stats unless you suffer a IC loss, then you return to your new, lower IG stats.

Its fair, and nobody can say that it pick on people.

It obviously isn't "fair" to people who couldn't record it before we started the database. That's why we're having all these arguments.

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I was focusing on the use of military force, not tech. I agree with "stick to the highest tech of the mergers".

And I agree. Which is why 2/3 of the merged nations do it. I think the third should be brought into line.

It obviously isn't "fair" to people who couldn't record it before we started the database. That's why we're having all these arguments.

No it is not. Because here we have proof. People that got rolled before the data base could alter their claims, and gain advantage. Like Km has done. At no point did he ever have more than 2500 tech or so.

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There always has to be a cut off point. As it stands now it isn't fair anyway because we are rewarding one of these players over the rest.

Then establish it. From my understanding, Martens lost his stuff not that long ago, and LVN did say that KM had similar tech with him during the wars.

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Then establish it. From my understanding, Martens lost his stuff not that long ago, and LVN did say that KM had similar tech with him during the wars.

Incorrect, at no point did he ever have more tech than me, as I remember, swapping nukes and taking small pleasures in that I had a bigger tech bonus than him. His max would have been 2500, and by the time I got a crack at him, it had dropped to about 2300.

(Btw, not that long ago was august at the most recent, I was before my one year anniversary, as I remember getting out of anarchy not long before it)

This cut off point was the creation of the database. If you put your stats on it then got rolled, all good.

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Isn't it more of "they do not take the effort to record their stats"?

Again, you are wrong. Mudd for example was a 55k nation when polar was rolled, IN THE SAME WAR KM JOINT VOX. Tell me how is allowing KM to play by huge stats that he never had while making Mudd play is his stomped 20k nation fair?

And remember, this was before the database.

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Not thats absolutely incorrect. Mudd tried to play by his pre-war stats during the Sino-Japanese war and everyone was up in arms about it.

I don't remember that..... What were his pre-war stats?

Here's my suggestion: We use the maximum tech level that the person could remember (and is backed by people) in the finalized database. Infra, unfortuately, will not be "corrected".

For your information, I'm a supporter of playing to a player's prime, at least in tech.

Edited by Sumeragi
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I don't remember that..... What were his pre-war stats?

Here's my suggestion: We use the maximum tech level that the person could remember (and is backed by people) in the finalized database. Infra, unfortuately, will not be "corrected".

For your information, I'm a supporter of playing to a player's prime, at least in tech.

The fact is some nations fail. Martens in particular collapsed utterly. It doesn't magically regain that. I RPed mine back to its former strength after I lost my first nation to inactivity.

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I think it depends, too.

If they are responsible, then generally it won't matter what they RP; the IG stats still (mostly) determine the winner.

For example, I RP a powerful defensive turret with quite an advanced AI system [well, actually 3 b/c the second two are more costly yet more effective]. It can be seen unfair, but then again, they have their weaknesses. The MAD's have glitches and sometimes just shoot everything that moves. If somebody [enemy or ally] didn't show the turret a special card, then the turret will shoot them (unless an engineer stop's the turret). High-explosives can easliy destroy them, and its gone if a gernade is lobbed at it. Pre-2008 tech small-arms cannot puncture the heavy tank-like outside, but can ricochet inside if it finds an opening. Oh, and they need a large battery/gas engine/similer to power it.

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I don't remember that..... What were his pre-war stats?

55k, i don't know the numbers.

Here's my suggestion: We use the maximum tech level that the person could remember (and is backed by people) in the finalized database. Infra, unfortuately, will not be "corrected".

So, lets drop KM down to 2300 tech.

For your information, I'm a supporter of playing to a player's prime, at least in tech.
Im a supporter of playing a fair field, with proven stats. Since IG stats don't decline unless you get smacked down, there is no point is trying to claim higher than what other people can back up, and with the establishment of this database, cheating like KMs will be banished.
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I don't really see what the real issue here is, besides getting everyone on the same page in terms of how we want to handle the merged nations. Which I personally think is a horrible idea especially if there is a great disparity between the nations that are merged, but I will work with whatever the majority decides.

How much of a difference does it really make about the tech? At 2300 tech Nordland can probably field just about everything, or is there something specific you think KM is using that he would not have if you un-merge his stats? I don't like this idea that the highest tech level trumps everything and let's people win entire wars virtually bloodlessly. That's simply rubbish. Maybe it makes a bit of sense in terms of naval battles and air battles, but when ground forces involving 100s of thousands of troops engage it should always cost you something. There are enough big nations out there in RP, that if you brought enough of them against Nordland,New Roma, or UFE they would be toast eventually no matter what. You can RP higher losses, but there is no real impact on your nation to such things unless you choose to RP it yourself. Which the vast majority of people don't do.

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How much of a difference does it really make about the tech? At 2300 tech Nordland can probably field just about everything, or is there something specific you think KM is using that he would not have if you un-merge his stats?

I dunno, I mean, if we cut him back 1100 tech or so he loses his claimed:

AI controlled super flackguns

His tank based coilguns.

His Genetically Engineered Supersoldiers with Nanotech boosters

His submerged navy.

And those are the advanced things he has which aren't possible.

The main problem is that the rule is not uniform. And thats the problem. Either stop GN cheating, or give a boost to other nations.

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