CNRP OOC Thread

[Sargun II]

Rl equivalents are just wrong, giving some people a large advantage for a spot on the map. If you were going to say that, then just abolish any kind of armed citizens, and tell people they can make up numbers they like.

The other thing, is with unlimited citizens (or even RL level), theoretically you could have a massive economy at around 4k infra. (like, scary levels, 200$ per day is $70k+ per person)

That's why I said they could use multipliers or something at or below real life equivalent, it's their choice. And the 'massive economy' argument is sort of invalid because there isn't much you can do in terms of "massive economy". What, is everyone going to have toasters? A good standard of living? Military equipment can only go so far and even then most of the people who do unreasonable 'purchases' have it dealt with (like Sumeragi). It should only affect you if you go to war with somebody, and when you go to war everything should be decided beforehand anyway. I'm a big fan of talking out wars before it's RP'd at least on a basic level, but not extensively so that everything's decided on beforehand.

[Vasili Markov]

I would like to ask a question and invite discussion on an issue.

If a situation of guerrilla warfare arises in the RP how will it be handled?

As I understand it in CNRP, larger nations win in a conventional war, but a guerrilla war is a special case that needs to be considered since in RL this is not always the case.

Here is my idea for how it could work in CNRP.

If a smaller nation is invaded by a large nation or coalition of nations then they can choose to disperse their forces and RP a guerrilla war with the occupying power(s). The might be able to sabotage key industries in the occupied area and perform hit and run strikes against isolated outposts as well as perform "terrorist" acts in the occupied area so that they can keep some kind of presence in the RP, and perhaps win back their nation by making occupying their nation more trouble than it is worth and perhaps force a withdrawal if they can RP it well.

Guerrilla warfare is a method that has been historically proven to allow a numerically and technologically inferior enemy to maintain an extended war against a superpower. Just look at the Vietnam war & the Afghanistan-Soviet war for examples of how a small, low tech nation can fight superpowers in a defensive war and "win".

I would welcome input and opinions about allowing guerrilla warfare in CNRP and how it might be implemented.

Edited January 11, 2009 by Vasili Markov

[Il Terra Di Agea]

I would like to ask a question and invite discussion on an issue.

If a situation of guerrilla warfare arises in the RP how will it be handled?

As I understand it in CNRP, larger nations win in a conventional war, but a guerrilla war is a special case that needs to be considered since in RL this is not always the case.

Here is my idea for how it could work in CNRP.

If a smaller nation is invaded by a large nation or coalition of nations then they can choose to disperse their forces and RP a guerrilla war with the occupying power(s). The might be able to sabotage key industries in the occupied area and perform hit and run strikes against isolated outposts as well as perform "terrorist" acts in the occupied area so that they can keep some kind of presence in the RP, and perhaps win back their nation by making occupying the their nation more trouble than it is worth and force a withdrawal if they can RP it well.

Guerrilla warfare is a method that has been historically proven to allow a numerically and technologically inferior enemy to maintain an extended war against a superpower. Just look at the Vietnam war & the Afghanistan-Soviet war for examples of how a small, low tech nation can fight superpowers in a defensive war and "win".

I would welcome input and opinions about allowing guerrilla warfare in CNRP and how it might be implemented.

I think that the bigger nation will always win in the end, but if it's a war for the sake of RPing a war, and it's all planned out ahead of time, I think it's fun to see the smaller guy win.

So yah, if on nation is not up for the war, or if the war isn't planned out ahead of time, the bigger nation always wins.

If the war is planned out ahead of time, and both parties are consenting, it doesn't matter.

[Dilber]

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1178736

I disagree heavilly with this. It's completely illogical to assume that Triyun wasn't checking containers. Even standard Customs does that, and this is coming out of a warzone.

[Otto Verteidiger]

Just a question regarding Arizona:

Should we allow him to RP without a nation? He's RPing in exile, which frankly, is kind of cheap imo. He should have to make a claim and get a nation to be able to RP in CNRP.

[Ranather]

Sumeragi is doing it in essence, and she hasn't been thus far forced to make a new claim, so why crack down on Rick? We could simply relegate him to the position of these people who post but aren't in RP (Like those occasional 'I haz nookz, ph34r meh' posts.)

Edited January 12, 2009 by Ranather

[Tom Litler]

edit wrong thread

Edited January 12, 2009 by Tom Litler

[Il Terra Di Agea]

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1178736

I disagree heavilly with this. It's completely illogical to assume that Triyun wasn't checking containers. Even standard Customs does that, and this is coming out of a warzone.

As many know, I usually agree with Sumeragi (at east at the start of arguments) but in this case, Triyun definitely would have checked the containers, and unless they were something of no real use, and would notbe considered contraband, the containers are gone.

Just a question regarding Arizona:

Should we allow him to RP without a nation? He's RPing in exile, which frankly, is kind of cheap imo. He should have to make a claim and get a nation to be able to RP in CNRP.

I think he should be able to RP in exile (Like Ubie occasionally does) but not do anything big (Like wage war). A group of people following their old leader seems perfectly acceptable, until he tries to do things beyond walking around and talking.

[Sargun II]

I think he should be able to RP in exile (Like Ubie occasionally does) but not do anything big (Like wage war). A group of people following their old leader seems perfectly acceptable, until he tries to do things beyond walking around and talking.

^--- this

There's nothing wrong with this, plus he's been working to get a nation anyway.

[LeVentNoir]

Frankly, it seems like you are claiming that they were running away from citizenship in other countries to go to a place with absurd laws, where they get no citizenship and are oppressed. It's like if someone were to run away from a way in Israel to hide out in East Germany in the heat of the cold war. It makes no sense.

Except that shows you have no idea about my nation. It is a free market liberal society, with a very high standard of living. Its more like running from North Korea to Sweden.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1178736

I disagree heavilly with this. It's completely illogical to assume that Triyun wasn't checking containers. Even standard Customs does that, and this is coming out of a warzone.

Totally agree. Air, land and sea, you could not smuggle out a container.

[Manetheren]

I have no problem with Rick RPing a "government in exile"

I'd like it better if it was actually in a nation, somewhere I wouldn't go to hunt him down instead of buried under the ice in Antarctica which is just stupid.

[Mirreille]

To be honest, civilian multipliers still leave me with a bad taste in my mouth. A lot of people like them, a lot don't, I happen to not care either way. I'd much rather prefer you guys use the RL equivalents if possible and if not to then make a suitable number that's within common sense. Tahoe uses 18 million citizens period, and he has no "civil defense" or anything, just a military. That's a great idea.

I use 300 million and no civil defense, and during wars it's RPd that the people don't start defending themselves as a 'civil defense' to make it fair. My military if my military, that's it. That's what yours should be, not your civilians.

If someone wants to use multipliers, I'm ambivalent, but if they don't, as long as it's near or below the RL equivalent it's really fine with me.

To be honest I don't see why people CARE about whether some people use modifiers, and some don't, since it should not affect the outcome of wars or anything RP-wise. Maybe a person with an obscene amount of people like Triyun has could say with that many people he could wage guerilla war indefinitely, but it won't have that great an effect. I use the 100x modifier since it is convenient and I want to RP a smaller population, but I'm pretty sure IRL I am understating what is there.

I put how I want to use my citizen soldiers in the link in my military thread and asked for comments, though I think most people missed that part. Do you think what I am RPing is out of line Sargun?

[Sargun II]

To be honest I don't see why people CARE about whether some people use modifiers, and some don't, since it should not affect the outcome of wars or anything RP-wise. Maybe a person with an obscene amount of people like Triyun has could say with that many people he could wage guerilla war indefinitely, but it won't have that great an effect. I use the 100x modifier since it is convenient and I want to RP a smaller population, but I'm pretty sure IRL I am understating what is there.

I put how I want to use my citizen soldiers in the link in my military thread and asked for comments, though I think most people missed that part. Do you think what I am RPing is out of line Sargun?

You have a military thread?

I don't think you've ever done a single thing I think is out of line Mirreille.

[Otto Verteidiger]

Sumeragi is doing it in essence, and she hasn't been thus far forced to make a new claim, so why crack down on Rick? We could simply relegate him to the position of these people who post but aren't in RP (Like those occasional 'I haz nookz, ph34r meh' posts.)

I kind of ignore Sumeragi so.. I don't really know what is happening in regards to her...

I just saw one of Rick's RPs and thought it might be worth discussing.

I think he should be able to RP in exile (Like Ubie occasionally does) but not do anything big (Like wage war). A group of people following their old leader seems perfectly acceptable, until he tries to do things beyond walking around and talking.

I suppose that is reasonable.

I have no problem with Rick RPing a "government in exile"

I'd like it better if it was actually in a nation, somewhere I wouldn't go to hunt him down instead of buried under the ice in Antarctica which is just stupid.

Yea, that'd be more like it, but oh well.

[Triyun]

To be honest I don't see why people CARE about whether some people use modifiers, and some don't, since it should not affect the outcome of wars or anything RP-wise. Maybe a person with an obscene amount of people like Triyun has could say with that many people he could wage guerilla war indefinitely, but it won't have that great an effect. I use the 100x modifier since it is convenient and I want to RP a smaller population, but I'm pretty sure IRL I am understating what is there.

I put how I want to use my citizen soldiers in the link in my military thread and asked for comments, though I think most people missed that part. Do you think what I am RPing is out of line Sargun?

One could argue that at 2020 development levels with a labor population the size of mine, the GDP of my country would be simply enormous even with a population at mostly lower middle class levels.

[Emperor Rick]

I think he should be able to RP in exile (Like Ubie occasionally does) but not do anything big (Like wage war). A group of people following their old leader seems perfectly acceptable, until he tries to do things beyond walking around and talking.

Thats why im RPing with a very limited population (mainly military remnants, and family members as a small percentage of civilians). Which will obviously keep me out of most major wars and etc.

And you don't have to worry about me building a laser beam on the moon or nuke the icecaps to flood the world. Ive checked with the mods they said no lol (jk)

I have no problem with Rick RPing a "government in exile"

I'd like it better if it was actually in a nation, somewhere I wouldn't go to hunt him down instead of buried under the ice in Antarctica which is just stupid.

Are you open to a peace treaty thread? You know if your willing to give back Arizona i promise i play nice with you for now on.

[Sumeragi]

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1178736

I disagree heavilly with this. It's completely illogical to assume that Triyun wasn't checking containers. Even standard Customs does that, and this is coming out of a warzone.

This is supposing what Margrave had been doing in was frowned upon by UFE. Given that he pretty much had free run of his operations except when it came to moving people, trying to reverse it NOW is sort of unconsistent, isn't it?

In essense, backtracking this is pretty much one-sided BS, when obviously my 91,000 people at the Slavorussian border would have retreated to Nordland along with the Nordic troops.

If you missed it, take the hit and carry on. Don't try to get your way just because you deny other people "good sense."

[Sumeragi]

12 "Dissidents". Since they were in a open bordered country with planes flying to Rockport, they simply got on one and got flown there. They have not got Rockport Citizenship yet, and unless you can prove you have 50,000,000 robots, I will consider some of them human, and able to do this. I don't consider the Mod ruling to be in the right tone because a: they are not in your territory, b : there is only 12 of them, not like 440,000 like you tried to do, and c: They are there for peaceful rp, not a armed militia.

Why the hell would they try to go to a country that is more than 15,000 kilometers away, barely heard of in DKT, and in the middle of an alien environment?

Yes, they're not robots, but common sense dictates that they would rather stay somewhere close or friendly, unlike the hostile Rockport which is just too far away, both literally and figuratively.

On the GDP: Here's something I suggested long ago.

[Firestorm]

At least in Rockport you wouldn't be there.. So maybe it isn't such a bad idea after all?

[Firestorm]

To be honest I don't see why people CARE about whether some people use modifiers, and some don't, since it should not affect the outcome of wars or anything RP-wise. Maybe a person with an obscene amount of people like Triyun has could say with that many people he could wage guerilla war indefinitely, but it won't have that great an effect. I use the 100x modifier since it is convenient and I want to RP a smaller population, but I'm pretty sure IRL I am understating what is there.

I put how I want to use my citizen soldiers in the link in my military thread and asked for comments, though I think most people missed that part. Do you think what I am RPing is out of line Sargun?

I didn't much care at first either. In most people's cases I'm ok with them claiming millions of people. Those people don't create instant armies out of nothing and nor do they demand that they be allowed free reign to control their citizens when they've lost their country.

In Sumerqai's case it is very simple.

Her civilian population is yet another issue with her role playing that needs some sort of mod intervention. I no longer recognize Sumerqai, her civilians, or her role play because of it.

That's my choice and likewise I respect the choices of others who do acknowledge her.

[Sumeragi]

At least in Rockport you wouldn't be there.. So maybe it isn't such a bad idea after all?

Pardon?

I no longer recognize Sumerqai, her civilians, or her role play because of it.

Unfortunate, really. The lack of respect for each other is really unfortuante.

[Firestorm]

Pardon?

Think hard... Now if I belonged to a nation that had a psycho leader who got most of the country nuked I'd probably consider moving elsewhere. That elsewhere being somewhere that doesn't have anything to do with the psycho leader's descendants, royal blood line, or royal toilet bowl cleaner.

Unfortunate, really. The lack of respect for each other is really unfortuante.

I will take the high road and not rise up to the challenge by responding to this statement.

Edited January 12, 2009 by Firestorm

[Sumeragi]

Think hard... Now if I belonged to a nation that had a psycho leader who got most of the country nuked I'd probably consider moving elsewhere. That elsewhere being somewhere that doesn't have anything to do with the psycho leader's descendants, royal blood line, or royal toilet bowl cleaner.

Well, let's see..... given that from Kyokujitsujins' point of view, this was pure aggression against the nation, and the nuking was done by the FPB first, I don't see how any of my people would consider the Sumeragi a "psycho". DKT isn't a western liberal democracy: It's a hard-core State Shinto State with a very strong head of state. Think of it as Imperial Japan on boosters. Seriously, DKT has less guilt than RL Imperial Japan: At least DKT never started meaningless wars of aggression.

I will take the high road and not rise up to the challenge by responding to this statement.

It was no challenge, just a comment.

[Dilber]

This is supposing what Margrave had been doing in was frowned upon by UFE. Given that he pretty much had free run of his operations except when it came to moving people, trying to reverse it NOW is sort of unconsistent, isn't it?

In essense, backtracking this is pretty much one-sided BS, when obviously my 91,000 people at the Slavorussian border would have retreated to Nordland along with the Nordic troops.

If you missed it, take the hit and carry on. Don't try to get your way just because you deny other people "good sense."

What? It's pretty much assumed that there would be checks on cargo. Cargo isn't people, especially when Chamberlain isn't an allied power. Like I said, it's pretty much standard even in peace time to check all cargo, and when a non-allied partner is moving people out of a warzone, it would be even moreso. It's cheating to say "YOU NEVER SAID THERE WAS CUSTOMS", when that would be something that normal people would consider to be active anyway.

How many unmarked containers did you magically get out past both a navy and air force who would be checking this?

Edited January 12, 2009 by Dilber

[Lord Frost]

What? It's pretty much assumed that there would be checks on cargo. Cargo isn't people, especially when Chamberlain isn't an allied power. Like I said, it's pretty much standard even in peace time to check all cargo, and when a non-allied partner is moving people out of a warzone, it would be even moreso. It's cheating to say "YOU NEVER SAID THERE WAS CUSTOMS", when that would be something that normal people would consider to be active anyway.

How many unmarked containers did you magically get out past both a navy and air force who would be checking this?

the bolded areas fall under the category of "assumed powers/technology"