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Naval Blockade


General Somoza
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Just for the background, I'm going to quote the information available about blockades. The bolded portion is to show what I am going to discuss, emphasis is mine.

Blockades - Blockades reduce the tax collection income of a defending nation randomly between 1-5% for each successful blockade placed against it. In order to place a blockade a navy must have 5 or more blockade capable vessels. (see vessel abilities chart below) A defending nation must have zero Break-Blockade capable ships in order for an attacker to create a blockade against it. Only one blockade may be placed against a nation per day. The penalties from multiple consecutive blockades stack up to a possible 100% reduction of a nation's tax collection. During a blockade if the attacking navy has previously been blockaded then the attacking navy will attempt to capture enemy economic supplies thereby reducing their own pre-existing blockade penalty. Aside from performing these counter blockade operations the only other way to reset the blockade penalty is by collecting taxes. Placing a Blockade against an enemy nation consumes one navy action slot.

Now, it makes sense that a blockade would be in place until it was broken or taxes were collected during the war. The enemy's naval forces would remain off the coast of the nation being attacked and would do everything they could to keep said nation from getting needed supplies. However, when hostilities had ended, the invading Navy would no longer be in place to prevent normal operations for the nation that was attacked. Yet, I find myself at peace today, and the penalty of 10.88% is still in place. Clearly, this isn't a bug- as it is in line with what is put in bold above. However, I do believe that this may not be the most accurate scenario and that it may be better to end such penalties at the end of hostilities.

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You are missing the whole point of blockades. War damage and anarchy can be waited out, this is an option for hurting your enemy financially in a way that they cannot avoid.

Trust me, accuracy to real life scenario equivalents is not a high priority in this game. Nothing about the navies is designed around RL accuracy, nor should it have to be.

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I agree with Choader. But the way blockades are now is more realistic than it would be if the penalty could be waited out.

Should justice be served, then you shouldn't be able to wait out anything, because that's close to abusing the system imo.

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I agree that we aren't trying to simulate real life, particularly with the naval feature. However, it is incorrect that a blockade cannot be waited out in a real situation. In reality, if a nation can do without supplies during the blockade they would be in a great position when hostilities ended. The shipments that they were unable to receive during the conflict would be waiting on them. When they could come ashore there would be a dramatic boost to the local economy, the remaining military forces, and the nation as a whole. Funny thing, when people are forced to do without things they tend to react very favorably when those items are available again.

Regardless, I just wanted to see what other people thought. So far, it looks as if I am in the minority.

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Am I to understand that to remove a blockade you need to run a naval attack on the blockading nation? I'm not 100% sure as I've not been in that situation yet.

If this is the case, how are you to remove the blockade if it stays after the war has expired? If it's not call me a moron and ignore me for the rest of the thread :D

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I had a similar question about blockades in this forum a week or so ago. The responses I got then were similar...it is counterintuitive perhaps that the blockade remains after the war, but if that wasn't the case, they would be pretty worthless b/c everyone would just wait it out.

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I agree that we aren't trying to simulate real life, particularly with the naval feature. However, it is incorrect that a blockade cannot be waited out in a real situation. In reality, if a nation can do without supplies during the blockade they would be in a great position when hostilities ended. The shipments that they were unable to receive during the conflict would be waiting on them. When they could come ashore there would be a dramatic boost to the local economy, the remaining military forces, and the nation as a whole. Funny thing, when people are forced to do without things they tend to react very favorably when those items are available again.

Regardless, I just wanted to see what other people thought. So far, it looks as if I am in the minority.

Think of it this way, the enemy destroys the blockaded goods. Once they throw the blockade on you just consider that income lost for good, and that's not far from the RL truth.

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it is entirely possible to RP the fact that blockades last longer than the war itself (and also very possible in RL for this to happen too). For example:

Lets say Nation X has been blockaded:

News spreads that a blockade has been placed upon Nation X. The blockade is a most heinous one, an enclosure of mines has been laid about a number of the trade ports of Nation X. For fear of getting destroyed many traders have decided to go elsewhere to peddle their wares until they hear that a more stable situation has arisen in Nation X.

The only way these traders shall be convinced that the mines have been cleared is if they see with their own eyes the navy of Nation X clearing up the waters around all of the nations ports. Unfortunately such a visible cleanup effort will cost the nation x% of their next tax collection.

And the reasoning for a Blockade on a foreign nation reducing the effect f the blockade upon your nation could be:

Due to the much publicised blockade being placed on Nation Y many traders have opted to come and trade in your nation once more. This has in turn reduced the number of traders which you need to convince to return to trade with your nation. Thus the percentage of your next tax collection that you will need to spend in making your cleanup effort as visible as possible has been lessened allowing you to divert this much needed income to other areas of your nation.
Edited by Lord Emares
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That is a possibility I suppose. But then mines aren't the way the blockades are being done. It is a ship blockade. And apparently even though I've come to peace with my attackers, their ships haven't received word yet!

Regardless, I guess it doesn't matter. This was probably posted more out of frustration in being in bill lock, nuclear anarchy, and knowing that with the blockade I probably still won't be able to pay bills after the anarchy ends. Oh well, tough luck for me I suppose.

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That is a possibility I suppose. But then mines aren't the way the blockades are being done. It is a ship blockade. And apparently even though I've come to peace with my attackers, their ships haven't received word yet!

Regardless, I guess it doesn't matter. This was probably posted more out of frustration in being in bill lock, nuclear anarchy, and knowing that with the blockade I probably still won't be able to pay bills after the anarchy ends. Oh well, tough luck for me I suppose.

But thats the point...it could be...the whole game is based off of the KISS principle...it does not say how blockades are carried out apart from saying that you need naval vessels to go to an enemy nation for a blockade to be put in place. It never says how the blockade is put in place. So its up to us to come up with inventive ways of explaining for our own RPs how the blockade was put in place...

I agree , also, If my nation is blockaded, and I get nuked and lose ships due to the nuke, shouldn't the other ships forming the blockade be destroyed as well?

It may destroy the ships that set up the blockade if they are still there...or the enemy ships could already have left your waters, putting in place some sort of semi permanent blockade....that does not involve ships....

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But thats the point...it could be...the whole game is based off of the KISS principle...it does not say how blockades are carried out apart from saying that you need naval vessels to go to an enemy nation for a blockade to be put in place. It never says how the blockade is put in place. So its up to us to come up with inventive ways of explaining for our own RPs how the blockade was put in place...

It may destroy the ships that set up the blockade if they are still there...or the enemy ships could already have left your waters, putting in place some sort of semi permanent blockade....that does not involve ships....

Ok, then the description of this particular part of the game mechanics needs to express this and not just call it a "blockade" which would lead one to believe that the navy is just hanging out in a harbor blowing stuff up. Regardless, if peace is declared or wars expire and they no longer are attacking, then they will leave the "semi permanent blockade" undefended and it would be easily avoided by blockade runners or would be taken back over.

If some form of structure is used to blockade then the structure would also be taking damage from nukes.

Now, if mines are what is being used, then there is still the possibility of a ship making it through the harbor unscathed by a mine, so it should be a random chance of say "due to recent blockades against you nation, there is a 31.23% chance that your next tax collection will be reduced by 15.38%". Since, technically, you may or may not get "blowed up" by the mines.

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Ok, then the description of this particular part of the game mechanics needs to express this and not just call it a "blockade" which would lead one to believe that the navy is just hanging out in a harbor blowing stuff up. Regardless, if peace is declared or wars expire and they no longer are attacking, then they will leave the "semi permanent blockade" undefended and it would be easily avoided by blockade runners or would be taken back over.

If some form of structure is used to blockade then the structure would also be taking damage from nukes.

Now, if mines are what is being used, then there is still the possibility of a ship making it through the harbor unscathed by a mine, so it should be a random chance of say "due to recent blockades against you nation, there is a 31.23% chance that your next tax collection will be reduced by 15.38%". Since, technically, you may or may not get "blowed up" by the mines.

And structures may not necessarily take damage from nuclear weapons...for example an attacking nation is not going to target a blockade structure that is reducing its enemies effectiveness in war, they would instead make sure that the blast from the nuke would not damage the structure while still doing the maximum possible damage to the defending nation...

One city does not a nation make...

But that 15.38% reduction could very easily represent the "chance" that people get through, and thus why it affects your tax collection...For example that 15.38% reduction could be that 15.38% less trading vessels got through the blockade than would normally have been coming to your harbours...this has had a direct effect on your tax collection reducing it by 15.38%...

I agree the description may need to be reworded so as to cause less confusion.

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I'd like to thank the original poster of this thread, as he has brought up a great concern; I share a very similar situation, and would like to bring up two situations, though, that I feel need some coverage.

A: As I mentioned earlier, I have a situation similar to that of the OP. The person who initiated the blockade has mentioned that, as soon as all of his wars and aid clear, he will be deleting his nation. This raises a question in my mind, on which I'd like to get feedback: If a nation initiates a blockade, and the controller of that nation later deletes him/herself, can the blockade still stand, without a nation to enforce it?

B: Thanks to five nuclear warheads, and my own stupid neglect to prepare a proper warchest (in my defense, I had just started saving up for National Wonder the Third), I am currently in billtrap. Assuming I can get sufficient resources via external means to clear billtrap, I plan to look into the option of purchasing ships that can counter a blockade. Thus, question the second: If I purchase anti-blockade ships, will they still be able to eliminate a blockade that has been left in place after a war has ended, or do they fail at the attempt?

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Think of it in this way: when blockaded, you've lost a portion of what you would collect because citizens are rationing themselves, companies selling less, economy geared for other things, so when you collect after such a time, you will have a reduced income.

Or just think of the ships turning away some trading ships or destroying some, losing goods forever.

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