New environment effect

[Heft]

I have 971 miles of land, 21 nukes, a coal trade, a pop density of 158, and 4 1/2 stars for my environment and still collect at least 10M before bills. Oops?

I don't think this is having the desired affect, if that was to hamper 10kInfra/1ktech/0 land nations like myself.

[King Srqt]

Is my nation considered obese at 6199.99 infra, 2200 tech, and 2500 land? I think I actually make slightly more money than I did before.

Also, I was in the middle of a back collect myself and I don't understand why people are complaining about that. I honestly can't see see how this would effect a back collect at all.

You happen to have one of the few trade setups that benefit from this. Unfortunately for most of us that setup is not so easy to get.

Edited May 19, 2008 by KingSrqt

[Thuru]

What i want to know is, what of penalty gives coal. I cant find it anywhere.

Some people did also said that coal did give a harder penalty.

[threefingeredguy]

You happen to have one of the few trade setups that benefit from this. Unfortunately for most of us that setup is not so easy to get.

I know, I was just trying to be contrary and maybe influence him to not use generalizations.

[MrCyber]

Ok after reading this long thread + several others on the subject and doing some research myself I have concluded that:

1. This update does NOT address the issue of big nations being just big and having lots of money and nothing to spend it on. This is still the same as this change has NOT affected any nation about approximately 6k infra as they all have enough improvement slots to buy 5 borderwalls which will then nullify the effect this change had on their nation.

2. This update DOES screw everybody that's between 1k & 6k infra as their income has now been drastically reduced. In most cases by 30-60% even, so it will only be harder for those nations to now even make it to the top or even close to the so wanted nuke range.

3. This effectively means this update has hugely negatively impacted 90-95% of the players in the game (those not in the top 5-10%) and just made the large nations be more powerfull then ever as their income has not been effected a whole lot. I now collect approximately $12M less in 19 days then before, so that's like nothing if you're like me and collect $220M+ every 19 days.

4. So effectively this means admin has rewarded all the large nations that account for the majority of the real $$ he gets as those nations either donate themselves or have others donate for them in return for CN dollars as it is the best way for large nations like me to grow as $20 gets me 200 infra, and I can just pay someone $12M CN dollars to do the donation for me, instead of paying $50M in CN dollars for the infra. With the reward being they're almost not impacted by this change.

So yeah.. NOT a good update as this totally screwed everybody that pays for the game. I do foresee the donations you're receiving will be significantly impacted by this change. I've already seen quite a few people stating they will not donate anymore and I can't blame them.

Just my $0.02

[greenansatsu]

So basically once your nation overcomes the loss of citizens, are you actually gaining a higher bonus?

slightly it seems, to be honest for my nation after crunching the numbers of what i know, I seem to be in the same situation i was in before buying 4 BW is my max. except the jumps between BW is more 3 mil each instead of a 1mil as before. So for me nothing has changed except i am 10k smaller, making 1.4m a day less, and am really afraid to touch my soldiers because calculation 80% is no longer the real 80% since as you buy soldiers your cit decreases.

[Provost Zakharov]

Land? Worthless? :lol:

That's right. If it takes 7.5 years to pay itself off, then it is a poor investment compared to things which return faster, such as improvements, wonders and infrastructure. If you wish to seriously dispute my statement, you're going to have to do a little better than the lol-smiley.

[Lord Sharpe]

That's right. If it takes 7.5 years to pay itself off, then it is a poor investment compared to things which return faster, such as improvements, wonders and infrastructure. If you wish to seriously dispute my statement, you're going to have to do a little better than the lol-smiley.

Except land is not an income generator (or at least, that is not its primary function).

[Timeline]

Hello all

Well one thing I am not sure on (WAHT WAS THE ADMIN THINKING) how is it land do not change the environment, surely the more land you have the cleaner your environment, when an area is built up it becomes dirty.

I feel something should be done in this area as the more land you have the cleaner your environment would be.

[treygreen13]

This update, which stings pretty badly, does encourage smaller nations to greatly re-think their trades. I'm dropping coal now, hoping that I will recover a percentage of the happiness and citizens that I lost. It appears that water will very much be in demand now.

I appreciate the Lead boost, but I believe most nations in the nuclear range are large enough to simply buy the border walls and cancel out the need for Lead.

[Voxamerica]

Well, that was a devastating blow, but now that admin has fixed the formula, I'm back where I was before. Actually about 0.07 happiness better, due to some post-change tweaking I did.

However, while the change restored my happiness & income levels, the citizens I lost are still gone.

[King Srqt]

From asking around It seems that larger nations are relatively unaffected by this change while mid tier nations are feeling the change considerably.

Is that the intended effect here? If not what can be done to fix it?

[Minilla Island]

For my nation, this is nothing short of catastrophic. I lost 6K in citizens, 20 points in happiness, and I lost $1.5 million per day. Though I have uranium in my trade circle, this was a long-term strategic trade. Furthermore, I have Aluminum and Furs, not exactly the most advantageous of sets. The problem is that this came without warning, so we could not properly re-strategize how we built our nations. They are going to have to do something to make up for this catastrophic error.

[BlackKnight]

Because buying 20 infra and 60 miles of land affect obese nations more, right?

Because buying over a hundred infra and 80 miles of land, only to see your income drop is rather ridicilously gut-wrenching

Is my nation considered obese at 6199.99 infra, 2200 tech, and 2500 land? I think I actually make slightly more money than I did before.

Compared to my 1,170 Infra, 70~ tech, and 512 land, yes..

[Provost Zakharov]

Except land is not an income generator (or at least, that is not its primary function).

I believe that's my point. "Investing" in land isn't really going to help you out, and having tons of land does not negate the effects of this update. Contrary to what Diskord and others have been saying.

[Kroknia]

This was a fine update for me, except that I am sure nobody else in my alliance will be able to ever grow again while I continue to be nice and inflated. Poorly thought out update.

[Ski11585]

From asking around It seems that larger nations are relatively unaffected by this change while mid tier nations are feeling the change considerably.

Is that the intended effect here? If not what can be done to fix it?

I don't know, but this update has effectively made it even harder to break into the top 100. Yes, it makes people spend more money, but as others have pointed out numerous times, larger nations are relatively unaffected.

If admin were to combine this with more powerful nukes, that'd be one thing. Instead, big nations can just buy the NEO Wonder and not have to worry about the effects.

[venhith]

Honestly this game just got alot less interesting for me.. Bring it on u say admin? my nation (25 nukes 10k+ infra) now NET about 2mil down from like 7mil. i offer a suggestion..... exchange my nuke silo for something else so i can not be so bankrupt anymore.

Edited May 19, 2008 by venhith

[Finch]

I wasn't going to post in here, but now I have to. I left just 1 hour ago, way after all of this happened(I was here before during and after the changes took place) then everything appeared to be fine. Now i come back, Accept 50 tech and now i lose 1000ns? Is there a new change where tech= NS loss that I don't know about.

[Syzygy]

KingSrgt is quite correct. Syz, you may like the change and feel it is logical and for the betterment of your large, large nation. You have no right to speak as though you are the omniscient ruler of Bob, dolling out suggestions as though you are infallible.

People will react differently. Drop the condescending tone and deal with it.

Sorry to disappoint you, but none of my suggestions is worked in "magically". Simple math proves that

- resources and trade setups who were at a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage before (Lead, RadiationCleanup) have been strengthened

- 99% of all nations can equal out the penalties by making the correct decisions when it comes to Gov, Trades, Improvements

- strong nations are hurt MORE than weak nations, because the penalty is a PERCENTAGE so they will lose a higher part of their pop AND happiness if they do not fight the env penalties, in addition to that highlevel nations have more likely high amounts of nukes and with that an uranium import. They either need to maintain 5 borderwalls (costs pop) OR need to invest 100 millions into a NEO to get rid of these

- more skill (=making the right decisions at the right times) now increases your performance in the game.

The only ones who can be real angry are those who have actually collected tax while the WRONG formula was active, but that is absolutely and entirely out of my responsibility. I even agree that these should be refunded because it is actually possible that they lost significant amounts of cash.

Now please please please with a lot of sugarcoating on top: show me with cold, hard math how significantly this update has crippled your nation or anyone elses. And no "my income gone down" does not count - almost everyones income has gone down, except the one of people which have trade combos which were VERY VERY bad before (8BG for example) which have now been strengtened.

I absolutely agree that such changes should be announced some days in advance in the future, to prevent nations currently at war, bill locked or backcollecting being trapped by surprise. But that is not in my power to do nor my responsibility.

I am sorry that you do not like the change and that you are angry about it, but that does not change the fact that it will for sure make the game more interesting over time. Alone the now political aspect of GRL and the resource balances is worth it.

From my experience the admin is actually very vary about "big changes" and is open for logical argumentation. Give him good reasons why this update is horrible and he will actually listen to you. But going around complaing and repeating "how horrible" it is, without showing clear proof why (math) will not change anything.

[Kindom of Goon]

I think for this update to work others things need to be changed to balance things out. I'm not entirely sure what, but making nukes stronger is definately one of them.

[KMbanana]

I have coal and oil.

I am never getting a trade offer again. Could you take a look at the environment affecting resources please? I really do not want to reroll.

[thedestro]

Stop whining. Environment was pretty much a joke before, and it deserved to have more weight to swing around.

I lost 5k citizens, some happiness, and you don't see me !@#$%*ing. Take it in stride, experiment with border walls and go on from there.

And before you get all flustered, remember: This affects everyone

So each and every person is affected fairly.

[Syzygy]

If admin were to combine this with more powerful nukes, that'd be one thing. Instead, big nations can just buy the NEO Wonder and not have to worry about the effects.

Yes, and that NEO will drain another 100million away from their warchest.

... what do you think will happen next? make a guess...

Thats why I am repeating for hours now: WAIT A BIT. Give it some time, sit back, drink some tea, eat some cookies. The admin would not have implemented such a change without it being part of a CONCEPT. But, its some "step by step" thing. Nobody has any interest to overhaul the complete game in one update. You can be sure what you have just mentioned is pretty high on the "to do list".

[Manetheren]

Bad change is bad.

Bad meme is bad.