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Trades make TE unbearable.


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@admin - seriously.

 

By far the biggest friction with TE - the thing that makes everybody stop playing - is trades.

 

It's insanely bad. Things move too quickly, and people get so frustrated. I've seen more people quit this game over trades than anything else. I've come close. Trades are what causes 90%+ of people to quit.

 

Trades work in SE where things are stable and long-term. They're an unmitigated disaster in TE.

 

If people could 'select' the resources they were 'trading with' every X days, like they select their own resources, the game would be 100x better. Way fewer people would be frustrated. Way fewer people would quit.

 

I'm imagining this might take some real work to implement. But I think it would drastically improve gameplay. 

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Why didn't I think of making this post?  This is exactly what is needed and the reasoning is also on point.  

 

A few of us started a TE AA a couple of rounds ago to encourage our SE memberships to be more active.  We had a big push to gain members, but not alot stayed and the ones who left said the trades were too disorganized/difficult to manage.

 

Resource swapping and trade temping work as decent game meta pieces in CN (both SE and TE).  SE is slow enough for it to be viable as-is, but TE is so quick that people essentially need to be hyperactive in order to pull it off.  It would be nice if we could keep this meta without requiring everyone to be checking multiple times per day in order to accept and swap trades.  @firingline's idea is good because it does exactly this:

1. It keeps the skill requirement high (perhaps even elevating it slightly because nations have to think about trades for themselves instead of having someone else decide and tell them who to trade with).

2. It maintains the same meta (no change in how the actual resources are calculated or interact).

3. Reduces reliance on others to have good trades (this is especially good for AAs that are fewer than 6 members but it helps all AAs because any group size that's not the an ideal # of members will have trouble with trades - the current system lends itself to people being left out of an essential game benefit).

 

It probably would take some work, but I could see TE population doubling or more within 3 rounds after implementation.  I know our AA could more than double in that timeframe with this change.

 

Thanks for listening!

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Trade delete for CN:TE would be fantastic.  If the dynamic of trades is seen as a core function of the game, require two actual trades before selecting your other resources, although this would likely be harder to code than a "select your 10/12 resources" situation.

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Yes, Trades can be something that could be improved tremendously. Because unless your playing with a group of friends in the same timezone that somehow could coordinate, there’s no way that you could legit get good trades. Especially if your trading with random people outside of alliance. Random cancels, inactivity, resource changes and a refusal to swap resources to collect/build etc. are just some of the problems that I and other encounter. By throwing off this damn system, it makes this game less dependent on others and more on your own skills and interactions. 

 

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Yes and no.

Trades used to be set back in the  day

Back in the day we had more members in TE for the simple reason we could not trash folk without a consequence to  the game.

We had more respect for stuff back then.

RL is something many harp on about over rounds, let me just say that in RL a nation could not set which resources they had.

The less skilled in TE may advocate the trade delete (in a hurry)

Those supporting it( above) only drive the skill out the game.

I get what Devile says though in part.

Trades in the right timezone etc, yeah, been there, invented it even, blah blah.

I think trades should be set at creation if the game is to expand back to where it used to be when we had many hundreds more members

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  • 2 weeks later...

@AdelTo the contrary, I think giving each player the ability to decide their own trades for TE actually increases the skill ceiling for the game!  There is a not insignificant number of players who have little idea of how trades work and instead rely on others (usually alliance leaders) to tell them who to trade with and/or which resources to be.

With the proposed change, players would have to learn more about trades themselves as part of good nation management.  The only "skill" it takes out is the hurdle of having to have enough friends/the right timezone/compliant partners, all of which I would argue are not skills at all!

For TE, there is already ample opportunity for teamwork that would not be harmed by changing the trade system.  Just my two cents!  :)

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On 4/5/2022 at 9:30 AM, Adel said:

You are aware players can change trades atm though right 😜

What else are you asking for?

 

For there not to be trades that require two parties to meet at a given time and execute the trade.

 

Just let us select resources we're 'trading with' from a drop down menu.

 

Things move too fast in TE to deal w/ trades. Trades prevent the biggest barrier for most players. Trades pose the most frustration for most players. Trades drive many players to quit.

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Ur?

For there not to be trades it requires no parties to meet at a given time surly.??

 

 

I think I get what you are trying

to say after thinking on it, but you need to make it easy to understand perhaps.

Easy for "one" to say things move too  fast in TE.

but some have a habit of slowing stuff up right?


 

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On 3/14/2022 at 1:09 AM, Jason8 said:

Trade delete for CN:TE would be fantastic.  If the dynamic of trades is seen as a core function of the game, require two actual trades before selecting your other resources, although this would likely be harder to code than a "select your 10/12 resources" situation.

Game imp suggestions from folk that do not play TE other than in order to wipe out over 16 long established nations is always nice.

Why not just have "alliance delete" button and then we can get around many players paying to support the game  for rounds on end only to be trashed because some think the game play was superior and decided to gang up to destroy?

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On 4/11/2022 at 4:55 AM, Adel said:

Ur?

For there not to be trades it requires no parties to meet at a given time surly.??

 

 

I think I get what you are trying

to say after thinking on it, but you need to make it easy to understand perhaps.

Easy for "one" to say things move too  fast in TE.

but some have a habit of slowing stuff up right?


 

 

What I believe he is trying to say is that if a nation can select all of their "Connected Resources" instead of just the two "nation resources," it would eliminate the need for collaboration with others in order to attain reasonable trades.  All 12 "Connected Resources" would be selectable by the Ruler and Trade Agreements would no longer be necessary.

This actually helps the situation you've outlined below:

 

On 4/11/2022 at 6:15 AM, Adel said:

Game imp suggestions from folk that do not play TE other than in order to wipe out over 16 long established nations is always nice.

Why not just have "alliance delete" button and then we can get around many players paying to support the game  for rounds on end only to be trashed because some think the game play was superior and decided to gang up to destroy?

 

People who don't have the support of larger AAs are at a disadvantage for trades.  Generally speaking, at least 8-9 people are needed to have optimal trades in this game, with 2-3 of those being trade "mules" who have subpar resources for themselves but just exist to provide their resources sacrificially to the remaining 6 nations.

The game at this stage shouldn't have this barrier for smaller groups to play successfully.  Anyone should be able to join the game, even alone, and be able to build their nation just as well as someone in a larger AA.

Of course, this doesn't stop the larger AA from attacking a smaller group and beating them down.  That's not something game mechanics can easily change.  But that's also not the point of this particular game suggestion.  While I empathize with the feeling of unfairness being ganged up on, I think that grievance should be separate to the discussion of evening the playing field of trades for everyone, which coincidentally may help smaller groups compete better anyways.  :)

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  • 3 weeks later...

Must say  I like trying to communicate with new members and make them feel welcome.

True, it is a war game, so they may get hit at some stage, but give them a chance even?

@firingline  may have a vested interest here, but members of any alliance that wants to promote the game could just nurture a friendship for trades?

Be nice even?

I managed it this round with over 3 different alliances,1 "none" , and 1 pending.

 

Just be nice to your potential trades, look after them if required even if your alliance does not accept them.

Being nice does not require recoding the game.

Back in the day we were stuck a full round with initial trades, we learnt respect the hard way then.

 

Kids these days do not seem happy unless the teet is force fed by law.

 

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On 4/1/2022 at 4:49 PM, GearHead said:

@AdelTo the contrary, I think giving each player the ability to decide their own trades for TE actually increases the skill ceiling for the game!  There is a not insignificant number of players who have little idea of how trades work and instead rely on others (usually alliance leaders) to tell them who to trade with and/or which resources to be.

With the proposed change, players would have to learn more about trades themselves as part of good nation management.  The only "skill" it takes out is the hurdle of having to have enough friends/the right timezone/compliant partners, all of which I would argue are not skills at all!

For TE, there is already ample opportunity for teamwork that would not be harmed by changing the trade system.  Just my two cents!  :)

I think I get what you think he was trying to say  on reflection  ;0)

Some seem to forget that this is more than a maths game.

Some have yet to figure it is a bit of a maths game.

I like your analogy of skills and hurdles and friends etc.

I preferred the game when we were all stuck with "creation resources"

It was realistic back then.

I know many nations in RL these days would love to dump  "Bad Roads" for "inexhaustible gas reserves"  

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/13/2022 at 12:13 AM, firingline said:

@admin - seriously.

 

If people could 'select' the resources they were 'trading with' every X days, like they select their own resources, the game would be 100x better. Way fewer people would be frustrated. Way fewer people would quit.

How would this work? Are you suggesting to eliminate trades with other players completely? What if there was available an option to select two "supplemental" resources that your nation would auto connect to without any trade agreements?

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1 hour ago, admin said:

How would this work? Are you suggesting to eliminate trades with other players completely? What if there was available an option to select two "supplemental" resources that your nation would auto connect to without any trade agreements?

 

That's exactly what I was thinking. You can either trade with other nations, or select supplemental resources. However, potentially the supplemental resources would be more than two (say four or six). The downside here would be they're either locked in the whole round or for some long period (21 days - past a full collect cycle?) Others who want to be more active can consistently trade swap and come out a little ahead.

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The biggest issue with TE is that you've got 100 nations to trade with.  The majority are in alliances and in their own trade circles.  TE requires fast pace "temp" trades to be competitive, which requires at minimum 8 nations to successfully pull off.  If I want to start an alliance with two friends, I can't be competitive.  If I want to start an alliance with 6 friends, I at least have a complete trade circle, but I still can't be competitive.

Trades can be a pain in SE, but they're literally make or break in TE, and if you're not in one of the dominant, award winning alliances, you're screwed.  I know that's part of the game, but we're not talking about a 300-nation alliance having an advantage over a 3-nation alliance, we're talking about an 8+ nation alliance having an extreme advantage over a 6 nation alliance, and an independent nation having literally zero chance at even operating in a competitive manner.

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Trying new things is cool, but I would suggest tying it to a wonder or improvement, as that would make the builds more varied. If everyone can do this, people will probably just all do it. On the other hand, I do not think finding temp trades is extremely difficult. Twice my own alliance couldn't produce a trading nation and I asked a friend to simply step in and temp. One of those friends will likely join next round, as they thought they might like to give TE a try next time. I only rejoined TE because trades were needed in OP what, four rounds ago?


I personally would like to see a round where everyone has an extra trade slot, to see what kinds of crazy shenanigans and builds could be come up with, but I'm not sure if/how something is feasible like this. At the same time, I do feel that there should be a way to make smaller groups more competitive, but maybe it isn't so hard to just ask some friends to play TE to increase the numbers of people in it anyway? I have mixed feelings I guess.

 

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Going to try two supplemental resources for round 61. While this doesn't totally address the issue, it might mix things up a little for this round and will make it easier for nations to connect to various resource combos. It may be a little over-powered actually, but will be interesting. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 5/13/2022 at 8:18 AM, admin said:

Going to try two supplemental resources for round 61. While this doesn't totally address the issue, it might mix things up a little for this round and will make it easier for nations to connect to various resource combos. It may be a little over-powered actually, but will be interesting. 


 

thank you admin , glad we have some change in the game.

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@admin so far I'd say this has been a success, but it was a little different from my initial thought.

 

Specifically, I'd like to see this be a trade-off. You can either select the bonus resources and lose one trade slot, or ignore the bonus resources and keep the same number of trade slots. I also wouldn't mind seeing it as four bonus/aux resources.

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