Kapleo Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 21 minutes ago, firingline said: We've done more in the past two weeks than you've done in years. Deal with it. This triggered me. We done stuff. We may no longer be able to sit in a room without hurling insults at each other and pointing fingers, but we did stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Bad Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 I had stop and see if this was some ancient grave dig but, it is not. Great to see DT alive and kicking. Did not even know any of the Commie alliances were still around. At least they are keeping up with the Communist alliance tradition on Planet Bob of doing something stupid and getting rolled. It is just like old time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galtian Commune Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 6 hours ago, Johnny Apocalypse said: Hey it's good to see people do stuff, I just can't help but think that the power could be used more effectively. Instead of jumping on a relatively isolated alliance because they know they can get away with it, primarily because sycophants like you would rather sit around playing treaty chess to protec your pixel (or your allies' pixel, or their allies' pixel and so on) instead of making any major plays (like c'mon WTF? You guys chose to flog that dead horse? smh) Look at it from our perspective. A few weeks ago, Al comes around and says ‘hey guys, i think I’m done with the rogue stuff, and I want to form my own alliance. Would you guys be interested in offering me protection and possibly treaties down the line?’. We say sure! Because we like Al. now, here two weeks later he’s doing some raiding (which really can be a good recruitment tool and is also fun, something CN lacks now) and UCR comes in with an OWF treaty and an official condemnation on raiding? of course we’re going to defend Al. And luck has it that DT’s activity has recently picked up a lot. What better way to take out some anti-raiding commies and defend our friend? You will inevitability find tons of problems with this post and this explanation, because that’s just what you do when Doomsphere is involved with anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmarx Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, Galtian Commune said: Al comes around and says ‘hey guys, i think I’m done with the rogue stuff, and I want to form my own alliance I don't know about you, but if I wanted people to think I wasn't a rogue I wouldn't go on the owf to openly and indiscriminately threaten the sovereignty of unaligned states, and then follow it up with a coordinated blitz raid. But that's just me, I know the imperialists don't care how many people they bully off of this planet just to get their way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galtian Commune Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, mrmarx said: I don't know about you, but if I wanted people to think I wasn't a rogue I wouldn't go on the owf to openly and indiscriminately threaten the sovereignty of unaligned states, and then follow it up with a coordinated blitz raid. But that's just me, I know the imperialists don't care how many people they bully off of this planet just to get their way. Clearly we are all very different people Edited October 21, 2021 by Galtian Commune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, Galtian Commune said: Look at it from our perspective. A few weeks ago, Al comes around and says ‘hey guys, i think I’m done with the rogue stuff, and I want to form my own alliance. Would you guys be interested in offering me protection and possibly treaties down the line?’. We say sure! Because we like Al. now, here two weeks later he’s doing some raiding (which really can be a good recruitment tool and is also fun, something CN lacks now) and UCR comes in with an OWF treaty and an official condemnation on raiding? of course we’re going to defend Al. And luck has it that DT’s activity has recently picked up a lot. What better way to take out some anti-raiding commies and defend our friend? You will inevitability find tons of problems with this post and this explanation, because that’s just what you do when Doomsphere is involved with anything. I see your perspective, but I have also seen you enable your own people to get away with whatever they feel like to the detriment of others. I applaud UCR in actually taking a stand against it and offering to help those who might wind up on the wrong end of one of your beaks. If Al did indeed approach you about protection? Given his history, did none of you think it prudent to clarify this properly in a public forum? Al's behaviour does not suggest that of someone who is "done roguing" - Sure there would be naysayers (me probably) but at least there's a public record of it. It seems to me UCR are taking less a stance against raiding on the whole and more a stance against unwarranted dogpiling. It isn't a moralist position, it's a question of being a decent sport about things. If you want to raid then raid, I agree that raiding generates activity and helps recruitment. However there is a balance that you need to consider in terms of how much force you use. If, for example, you're going to masquerade as some independent entity conducting organised blitzes as 'raids' without giving your opponent a fighting chance to have a swing back? That kind of raiding is actually detrimental to what you outlined as the benefits of raiding. People from your group regularly form their own little raiding brigade AAs and do exactly that, but heaven forbid someone put their foot down and call it out as being bad form. No, you have to make an example out of them too by dogpiling them. It's great DT are active again, good for them but this approach to warfare where any aggressor is immediately shut down with excessive force is extremely detrimental to the political dynamic of this world. If this was just DS jumping in with DW and they fought UCR? That is at least a reasonably pitched fight and I'm sure peace could have been arranged after a round. Instead you had to cover all of their tiers with much greater numbers to ensure absolute victory and so everyone knows who's boss. Thereby ensuring people continue to do very little other than sign ODPs, for fear that the web will fall down upon them if they make a wrong move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firingline Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 25 minutes ago, mrmarx said: I don't know about you, but if I wanted people to think I wasn't a rogue I wouldn't go on the owf to openly and indiscriminately threaten the sovereignty of unaligned states, and then follow it up with a coordinated blitz raid. But that's just me, I know the imperialists don't care how many people they bully off of this planet just to get their way. We don't particularly care if UCR thinks our allies are 'rogues'. If you declare war on them, we're going to declare war on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmarx Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 23 minutes ago, Galtian Commune said: here two weeks later he’s doing some raiding (which really can be a good recruitment tool and is also fun, something CN lacks now I find great amusement in this idea that raiding is actually great fun and UCR is the bad guy good time ruiner. Maybe it's fun for the professional imperialist, who builds their nation for conquest, sitting around at low levels with a bloated war machine, rolling over months old targets. But I've been Premier of the UCR for a while now. I've seen the other side of this. I've seen the hopelessness and despair, the nations who just give up. Everyone keeps talking about how raiding is good for activity. Is it really though? Do you have any evidence for that? Out of all the nations Doom Wolves raided, only one of them still has activity within the last 3 days. Let's drop this long repeated lie of the so called "benevolence" of raiding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmarx Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, firingline said: We don't particularly care if UCR thinks our allies are 'rogues'. If you declare war on them, we're going to declare war on you. And the nations that Doom Wolves seeks to bully do not have that same right of collective defense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, mrmarx said: I find great amusement in this idea that raiding is actually great fun and UCR is the bad guy good time ruiner. Maybe it's fun for the professional imperialist, who builds their nation for conquest, sitting around at low levels with a bloated war machine, rolling over months old targets. But I've been Premier of the UCR for a while now. I've seen the other side of this. I've seen the hopelessness and despair, the nations who just give up. Everyone keeps talking about how raiding is good for activity. Is it really though? Do you have any evidence for that? Out of all the nations Doom Wolves raided, only one of them still has activity within the last 3 days. Let's drop this long repeated lie of the so called "benevolence" of raiding. Well in fairness, back when I lead COBRA we raided the smaller Communist alliances on Bob. Following that raid, you banded together to form Red Alert for mutual protection. So in a sense our assault on you guys actually spurred you to action and out of respect for that move I lobbied to leave you all alone whenever it was suggested we raid you for the nth time. So there is some merit to the idea that raiding can generate activity and movement, but for the most part it is a deterrent for many potentially new players. Especially when they are as co-ordinated as the ones launched the Pinkbirds. Anyone who tries to fight back has reinforcements called upon them immediately. Edited October 21, 2021 by Johnny Apocalypse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galtian Commune Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 If you to think that dogpiling someone with 20:2 odds, while they’re already in anarchy, is a good way to push the “dont dogpile people” argument, you, well.. just think more. UCR didn’t do their homework or, seemingly, ask any of their allies if this is a good move or not. and JA, are you suggesting people should only do raids if they pull them off really sloppily? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmarx Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, Johnny Apocalypse said: Following that raid, you banded together to form Red Alert for mutual protection Although the ratification and announcement of the treaty did occur after the attacks, it had already been drafted and it's terms had already been discussed. What prompted the formation of the pact was a desire to finally and formally mend old wounds and re-establish a united left on paper. The raid actually delayed the ratification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmarx Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, Galtian Commune said: UCR didn’t do their homework or, seemingly, ask any of their allies if this is a good move or not We don't have to ask anybody if standing up to bullies is a good move. We know it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gh0s7 Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 42 minutes ago, mrmarx said: We don't have to ask anybody if standing up to bullies is a good move. We know it is Then I'm sure you will enjoy the experience. Goodluck, and hope this ends amocably Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 49 minutes ago, Galtian Commune said: and JA, are you suggesting people should only do raids if they pull them off really sloppily? Yeah that's what people should do. I'm not trying to draw attention to a middle ground where people pick a fight and actually hold their own or anything like that. I'm saying you should conduct raids by buying 50 CMs when you initiate the raid. You could all just stop being colossal cowards and fight someone your own size if you're that desperate for a fight, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firingline Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 59 minutes ago, mrmarx said: We don't have to ask anybody if standing up to bullies is a good move. We know it is Bullies you think you can beat, that is. You only pick on small raiders you think you have a shot at, then pull the victim card when it backfires because you didn't do your research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 21 minutes ago, firingline said: Bullies you think you can beat, that is. You only pick on small raiders you think you have a shot at, then pull the victim card when it backfires because you didn't do your research. Yeah yeah we get it already. The Kettle is black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krihelion Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 3 hours ago, Kapleo said: This triggered me. We done stuff. We may no longer be able to sit in a room without hurling insults at each other and pointing fingers, but we did stuff. nothing anyone cares to remember Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapleo Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Krihelion said: nothing anyone cares to remember Why would you want to remember us defending you from evil Oculus/Claws? 😏😘 Yeah, you wouldn't. Edited October 22, 2021 by Kapleo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Krihelion said: nothing anyone cares to remember I helped relegitimise NG as an alliance and not a band of rogues as Oculus and RFI were alleging. I worked with caustic at first and then later with Stewie. We signed an MDoAP with you, no other alliance would sign anything higher than an ODP with for a while. Not trying to take all the credit, you guys built your own alliance but we were there for you while you did it. Up until the fall out we had a good dynamic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The R00STER Posted October 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 5 hours ago, Johnny Apocalypse said: It's great DT are active again, good for them but this approach to warfare where any aggressor is immediately shut down with excessive force is extremely detrimental to the political dynamic of this world. One of the fiercest Leaders of our time once said, "If you play the game of thrones, You win or you die." 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 18 minutes ago, Terrence Krillins said: One of the fiercest Leaders of our time once said, "If you play the game of thrones, You win or you die." 🤷♂️ And what is dead may never die. @Canik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcraftmazter Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 Whether the force is excessive or not is of no relevance, it's merely coincidental. Nor is it really excessive, we're just declaring a few wars, it's proportional to the target. But moreover, let's say the tables were turned, let's say commies didn't suck at politics and they got a bunch of large alliances behind them before they did something stupid, the situation would not be different, we would still be where we are. DT has been embedded in the doomsphere for quite a long period, it is astonishing to me that you or anyone would find us helping our allies surprising or unjustified. As for raiding, given how boring CN has become, why in the world would anyone want to take the last bit of fun out of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The R00STER Posted October 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 24 minutes ago, Starcraftmazter said: DT has been embedded in the doomsphere for quite a long period, it is astonishing to me that you or anyone would find us helping our allies surprising or unjustified. There is an argument to make that is surprising we did anything at all because while many alliances have perfected the art of turtleing these past 5ish years we've been working on the art of potatoing. But we're ready to come out of our gritty potato shell. No longer shall they look upon us and see starchy carbs from the bosom of Mother earth. For today we are French fries! Beautiful! Crisp! Golden! Sadly in the near future we'll probably be soggy but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerdge Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 Why would any of you people complain or be disappointed about anything at all? There's nothing to salvage here anymore, if you don't find it satisfactory just spend your time elsewhere and be done with it. Unless you find satisfactory to complain for the sake of it, in that case please carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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