A Statement from Non Grata

[Lucius Optimus]

38 minutes ago, MasterBadey said:

*looks awkwardly at NG's recent behavior*

Heck, who am I kidding. NG has been at this since it's inception.

Tell me friend 

 

What do you know about COBRA? General Kanabis? Jack Layton? TPF? 

 

Should we hold the 2nd coming of TPF or the 3rd iteration of the COBRA government responsible for its sins as well? An all out white knight crusade? You have MI6 in your midst yes? And known agents of other unconventional organizations? 

 

Just how far back shall we go?

 

Apologies were offered privately, public Apologies were issued without a prompt as I understand it. 

 

Accept or not simple as that

Edited May 29, 2021 by Lucius Optimus

[lilweirdward]

38 minutes ago, MasterBadey said:

*looks awkwardly at NG's recent behavior*

Heck, who am I kidding. NG has been at this since it's inception.

 

What's there to feel awkward about? Having an ally that has been nothing but respectful towards us, both in game and out of it? Getting to bond with Lyanna over having both grown up with seminary dads, or sharing hilarious niche Lutheran YouTube memes with Lenin, or the many other genuinely friendly experiences we've had just in the past few months since we've had the pleasure of getting to know NG? Maybe I should be embarrassed that, when one of its members crossed a line, Stewie and the rest of his gov publicly apologized, took responsibility for the action, and committed to being better, as opposed to the alliance you referenced whose leadership just remarked that NG should have not apologized at all - is that it?

 

CCC is not the same alliance that it was 10 years or even one year ago, and the same is true for NG and most every other alliance. I'm not here to judge the sins of anyone's past, but the actions of those I'm able to interact with right now, and on the whole I've been extremely impressed with the character of the folks that I've gotten to know. No one is perfect, and mistakes have absolutely been made. However I genuinely believe that Stewie, Thrash, and the rest of NG are doing their best to form a new path for themselves, and I'm happy to continue supporting them on that journey.

[MasterBadey]

I mean, this was literally 14 months ago.

 

 

[Lucius Optimus]

9 minutes ago, MasterBadey said:

I mean, this was literally 14 months ago.

 

 

"1.  NG hereby admits that it acted in a manner unbecoming of a member of the international community through;
a. Reneging on an agreement to peace when white peace was offered and agreed upon,
b. Repeated attempts at poaching Oculus members and/or those of Oculus’ allies,
c. Repeated attempts at getting Oculus members and/or those of Oculus’ allies to provide NG members with funding for rogue operations,
d. Repeated rogue operations against Oculus and/or Oculus' allies, as well as the global community at large,
e. Threatening members of Oculus alliances,
f. Interfering as a third faction in and with negotiations for another conflict,
g. Unauthorized use of Oculus flag in an alliance announcement."

 

No where novOOC hits mentioned here. This is all about in-game conduct and unconventional warfare. Not that it's an excuse but this is irrelevant. Not to mention the probation ended sometime ago. FTW even opted out of hitting NG during bicycle. 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Lucius Optimus

[Lucius Optimus]

@MasterBadey further section 5 point 3 

 

"3.  In the event that a provocation occurs, the injured party must notify the offender, and an attempt to diplomatically resolve the issue must occur."

 

Boog could learn more from this peace deal you referenced. But that would be inconvenient. 

 

 

[Canik]

8 hours ago, Knights of the Grail said:

The concept of collective guilt is disgusting.

 

The perpetrators can face the TOS consequences without apologies forced from their alliance.

Those who actively join with, remain with or defend scum after their offenses are known should be considered "guilty" as well. Perhaps not to the same extent.
There are a thousand shades of gray between complete guilt and complete innocence. (or 50 shades, at least) and if they are intelligent and/or have a conscience, they are not wrong to feel the wrong-doing needs recognizing and correcting. Morality aside it is pragmatically wise, for if you want to give offenders another chance so that they may remain productive or valuable members of your alliance then you shoulder and share their responsibility keeping them under your protection.

Had NG removed these members then yes, it would be wrong to give NG crap over it.
Still wouldn't hurt for them to apologize though. That's just politics. Always has been always will be.
It seems NG was just politically adept and socially aware enough to offer up the apology. Which was both right and smart.
Well done @Stewie and whoever else within or around NG who encouraged it.

Now if you're real smart, you'll back up those words with action followed through.
After messaging your members outlining what is not acceptable, what will not be tolerated. There should be no surprised when there is harsh and decisive action should it happen again. This could be the first step in NG becoming a more respected and politically stronger alliance. Because as I'm pretty sure at least one person is aware your political capital quickly going down the drain over dumb !@#$. For pointless, petty and tasteless insults briefly amusing a few sadist. There have always been things I liked and respected about NG, as with most alliances, but ooc attacks are stupid, short-sighted and unimpressive to say the least. I know it's just a game but these "moves" are the equivalent to smearing !@#$ on your side, blindfolding yourself and kicking at the board.
If one wants to see NG fall, minus sincere change, all they need do is sit back and wait a short while and you would tip down your king.
I may seem harsh here, I'm may be offending some of NG and any remaining sympathizers. Call it tough love.

Notice though my insults remain within the confines of the game. 
and as SirWilliam said, "please kindly get your !@#$ together"

Either that or just go ahead and disband again. Save everyone a little time.
Because currently you are playing the game with all the sophistication and cunning of "players" like SirKindle and Methrage.
In ways I might say Junka was a better player. Though all their former alliances are now merged with FTW. Is that what you want? To be a furry?
Well go ahead and switch AAs if you'd like. Diamond or turd, we'll polish you! And if we can't, we'll flush you!
Just know I'll expect a basic level of decency here because I don't like to toss my political capital shielding turds under my skirt.
I prefer to save it for annexing alliances like yours. We already annexed your flag. The transition would be so easy. For those with a modicum of self-control
and for those without as well! The former will strengthen our alliance and we'll return to our proper place as the #3 alliance
(and more importantly, return CLAWS to their proper place as #4) until I get us rolled in an considerably more glorious fashion
and with slightly more finesse than the table kicking and !@#$ smearing that has been your modus operandi.
I'll even throw in some latin I know y'all like that! Stop crapping on your denims and carpe diem instead!
Disband and join FTW!



tl;dr - be smart. or be good. there's not much difference really.
also the best merger sells-pitch ever

Edited May 29, 2021 by Canik

[White Chocolate]

I remember when a member of CLAWS said something highly offensive to a member of Cobra on discord.  The entire incident nearly caused a war.  There were demands for blood NOW and that was fine with a large portion of the CN population.

 

If, as a community, we truly want to discourage bad behavior then being consistent in what we believe is "just" regardless of alliance and popularity of the offender is important. 

 

As things currently stand, I think this is a bunch of B.S. and spin.  Change my mind and actually do something more than nice words.

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by White Chocolate

[Canik]

2 minutes ago, White Chocolate said:

I remember when a member of CLAWS said something highly offensive to a member of Cobra on discord.  The entire incident nearly caused a war.  There were demands for blood NOW and that was fine with a large portion of the CN population.

 

If, as a community, we truly want to discourage bad behavior then being consistent in what we believe is "just" regardless of alliance and popularity of the offender is important. 

 

As things currently stand, I think this is a bunch of B.S. and spin.  Change my mind and actually do something more than nice words.

 

Having CLAWS, FTW & COBRA flirting with all actually being on the same page. Proof positive you've been playing at the lowest levels of the game, NG. You're this close to falling to Lucius' level of play. Seriously, you made a nice apology now quick disband and join FTW. Save what little image of prestige you have left, NG! I mean, you'll lose it when you merge but we can keep it on the hush hush.

[Krihelion]

On 5/27/2021 at 12:05 PM, SirWilliam said:

I mean this in the nicest, and least overtly hostile or threatening, way possible: NG, please kindly get your !@#$ together.

 

That said, taking responsibility and attempting to make amends does count for something in my opinion.

SW telling people to get their stuff together, thats rich

[Canik]

30 minutes ago, Krihelion said:

SW telling people to get their stuff together, thats rich

!@#$ here's someone who definitely should not be promoted and probably should kindly asked to avoid posting. Literally half of CN is saying NG needs to get it's !@#$ together and this little angry girl singles out SW like he's the only one. Yeah, SirWilliam may not have accomplished any !@#$ togethering in a long time, if ever, but when he realized he didn't have it together he retired. I know because I was the one who retired him.
Feel free to continue attacks on his character, I'll join you, but he's 100% right in this instance and just one voice among many.
Get your !@#$ together.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Canik

[SirWilliam]

58 minutes ago, Canik said:

!@#$ here's someone who definitely should not be promoted and probably should kindly asked to avoid posting. Literally half of CN is saying NG needs to get it's !@#$ together and this little angry girl singles out SW like he's the only one. Yeah, SirWilliam may not have accomplished any !@#$ togethering in a long time, if ever, but when he realized he didn't have it together he retired. I know because I was the one who retired him.
Feel free to continue attacks on his character, I'll join you, but he's 100% right in this instance and just one voice among many.
Get your !@#$ together.

Boy you retired these nuts in your mouth.

[Canik]

51 minutes ago, SirWilliam said:

Boy you retired these nuts in your mouth.

What's that? I have permission to hit Korlath again? Thanks!

[Neo Uruk]

6 hours ago, Lucius Optimus said:

Tell me friend 

 

What do you know about COBRA? General Kanabis? Jack Layton? TPF? 

 

Should we hold the 2nd coming of TPF or the 3rd iteration of the COBRA government responsible for its sins as well? An all out white knight crusade? You have MI6 in your midst yes? And known agents of other unconventional organizations? 

 

Just how far back shall we go?

 

Apologies were offered privately, public Apologies were issued without a prompt as I understand it. 

 

Accept or not simple as that

Lol there's a difference between holding someone responsible for their political machinations from years ago and holding people responsible for doing the same !@#$%^&* we used to do as teenagers

 

At some point you're supposed to grow out of hating everyone in society 

[mochi]

The sentiment is there. The 'statement' is rejected.

Disclaimer: Multiple responses in one.

 

I truly hope that it has been made clear that whilst the action done by Dane0 was worth an apology, the question Johnny Apocalypse asked prior his sudden departure and my announcement of that remains. How did Dane0 obtain the information disclosed if not from a person Johnny once trusted more than most on Bob?  (Specifically speaking, whilst Johnny had indeed referenced things, to the specifics mentioned - that was not in public eyes.)

 

Moving on. Stewie, the sentiment is there but I truly cannot see myself accepting this. This isn't the first time a line has been crossed and we've no reason anymore to trust it'll be the last. Would it be wrong to lack hope in change? I don't think so. We can all remember the events of my sudden jump into leadership and the things I encouraged, spoke and acted on that lead to our Summit. It took some time but I realized my actions were far from acceptable and did my best to resolve it, even setting a new stone where they once were in the form of a NAP simply hoping to pave a new path. My withdrawal of the pact I offered was not an action I took lightly either.

 

Quote

 It takes both sides to build a bridge.

 

What came after felt continuously like a one-sided effort when I heard continuously of the comments made by the members you lack control of. I'm no role model of what leadership should be by any means but even I did what I could to slow and restrict the comments COBRA would make previously.

 

I believe you, Stewie. That you and you alone are apologetic for the disrespect to such a degree shown but we both know that without any true repercussions to ALL members who partook in the continued disrespect, it'll continue to be only you saving face for your alliance. Though, the statement in itself lacks a great deal of sincerity personally. There's far too many factors I'd be glad to discuss privately if ever you wish to offer some clarity.

 

tl:dr: see title.

 

 

7 hours ago, Lucius Optimus said:

Tell me friend 

 

What do you know about COBRA? General Kanabis? Jack Layton? TPF? 

 

Should we hold the 2nd coming of TPF or the 3rd iteration of the COBRA government responsible for its sins as well? An all out white knight crusade? You have MI6 in your midst yes? And known agents of other unconventional organizations? 

 

Just how far back shall we go?

 

Apologies were offered privately, public Apologies were issued without a prompt as I understand it. 

 

Accept or not simple as that

 

As it stands, the past is the past. History at times will repeat itself as it's inevitable in some cases but seemingly, you omit the detail of my apology for what had took place and attempts of resolve. Given after all that had happened, I truthfully hoped you would've had even the slightest bit of trust in my words.

 

An apology was provided. A public statement was issued.

 

Quote

Final Notes.

 

A general consensus throughout the community has formed and things that I never thought I'd find myself seeing are now before my eyes. Whilst my response is nothing of the unexpected yet remarkable response that is from FTW or the short and honest straight to the point response from White Chocolate, I stand by the words I wrote and if you truly think resolve is desired of this, the world awaits for action to follow the apology.

 

I know in myself as a leader that despite my lack of experience and the knowledge I'm continuing to learn as I move forward with such a position, I went against all advice that COBRA's Royal Guards, Elders and even King offered when I brought up my plan moving forward to try and create resolve and perhaps a time where we were to fight again.

 

I no longer see such a thing being achievable after this, Stewie. For that, I am sorry. Leader to leader.

 

A great thank you once more to FTW and the efforts placed previously in the Summit to assist in the resolution and I am sorry that despite said efforts I've had to reverse the actions made.

 

 Mochi.

 

[Stewie]

6 hours ago, mochi said:

The sentiment is there. The 'statement' is rejected.

Disclaimer: Multiple responses in one.

 

I truly hope that it has been made clear that whilst the action done by Dane0 was worth an apology, the question Johnny Apocalypse asked prior his sudden departure and my announcement of that remains. How did Dane0 obtain the information disclosed if not from a person Johnny once trusted more than most on Bob?  (Specifically speaking, whilst Johnny had indeed referenced things, to the specifics mentioned - that was not in public eyes.)

 

Mochi, 

Several members of alliances across Bob also have personal experiences of a range of challenges which gives them a way of recognising certain behavioural traits. What is said on a number of discord channels, both public and private, by Johnny himself historically, must be acknowledged as being public knowledge and becomes personal bias.

 

 

Quote

 

Moving on. Stewie, the sentiment is there but I truly cannot see myself accepting this. This isn't the first time a line has been crossed and we've no reason anymore to trust it'll be the last. Would it be wrong to lack hope in change? I don't think so. We can all remember the events of my sudden jump into leadership and the things I encouraged, spoke and acted on that lead to our Summit. It took some time but I realized my actions were far from acceptable and did my best to resolve it, even setting a new stone where they once were in the form of a NAP simply hoping to pave a new path. My withdrawal of the pact I offered was not an action I took lightly either.

 

Honestly, I don't expect you to accept it, this is something we have to prove towards Cobra via actions, not words.  The statement was for the wider community.  What was done was unacceptable.  We have instituted new regulations within Non Grata where members of the alliance use gov or allies to vent, not descend to levels of discourse which we must state does not reflect well on anyone within this community.

 

 

Quote

What came after felt continuously like a one-sided effort when I heard continuously of the comments made by the members you lack control of. I'm no role model of what leadership should be by any means but even I did what I could to slow and restrict the comments COBRA would make previously.

 

Sadly I have not been as active within my community as much as I would have liked recently.  One of the reasons why I have delegated more and more towards other members of my alliance, like Lyanna, Thrash, Legend and Kerschbs.  I however am ultimately responsible for the behaviour of my alliance, thus this is me trying to take a step forward.

 

Quote

I believe you, Stewie. That you and you alone are apologetic for the disrespect to such a degree shown but we both know that without any true repercussions to ALL members who partook in the continued disrespect, it'll continue to be only you saving face for your alliance. Though, the statement in itself lacks a great deal of sincerity personally. There's far too many factors I'd be glad to discuss privately if ever you wish to offer some clarity.

 

Respect needs to be earned on both sides.  There's a lot of bad blood which can't be fixed by a NAP alone.  Not everyone is active with Cobra members, and other are biased by past behaviour.  Bias' don't change overnight and there are a range of events which can negatively affect and trigger people. 

 

Please feel free to hit me up in DM anytime, you say that there was continued disrespect, I have never had a member of cobra or other alliances contact me to discuss their concerns.  Whilst I may not post on my discord all the time, I do try and read the major threads.

 

What people say on other discords, or in other places.  That is for the birds if you expect the leaders of any alliance to police every single place their members are active.  I've got limited time to engage with Bob and discord because other places suck in a lot of my time as I repriorities towards other things. (Note: I'm working 50 hour weeks and at the gym the rest of the time)

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Stewie

[citizenkane]

12 hours ago, Krihelion said:

SW telling people to get their stuff together, thats rich

 

12 minutes ago, Stewie said:

 

We have instituted new regulations within Non Grata where members of the alliance use gov or allies to vent

 

 

 

Can you see why everyone is tired of this rubbish from NG, @Stewie even on a thread, apologizing for OOC attacks, and stating you are implementing policies etc for your members to continue with these small microagressions aimed at Boog on the very same thread is actually evidence that you hold no power in NG and that nothing can, or will ever change. 

 

A leopard never changes their spots.  No matter how hard they try.  

[Stewie]

1 minute ago, citizenkane said:

 

 

Can you see why everyone is tired of this rubbish from NG, @Stewie even on a thread, apologizing for OOC attacks, and stating you are implementing policies etc for your members to continue with these small microagressions aimed at Boog on the very same thread is actually evidence that you hold no power in NG and that nothing can, or will ever change. 

 

A leopard never changes their spots.  No matter how hard they try.  

 

The OOC post was in response to a microaggression from Boognish towards NG.  Hence why I posted that this is a two way street CK.  You can't expect NG to be the only one who has to reflect upon their behaviour.

 

The policy is for people not to bite when these occur and they vent behind closed doors, regardless of whom it is, or what sphere they are part of.

[citizenkane]

1 minute ago, Stewie said:

 

The OOC post was in response to a microaggression from Boognish towards NG.  Hence why I posted that this is a two way street CK.  You can't expect NG to be the only one who has to reflect upon their behaviour.

 

The policy is for people not to bite when these occur and they vent behind closed doors, regardless of whom it is, or what sphere they are part of.

It was in response to SirWilliam saying "get your ... together" and thanks for building bridges. 

 

Entirely appropriate, under the circumstances. 

 

Your 'no u' approach is tired and your lack of understanding of why this is an issue is at best ignorance or at worst a willful disregard for people. 

[citizenkane]

5 minutes ago, Stewie said:

 

The OOC post was in response to a microaggression from Boognish towards NG.  Hence why I posted that this is a two way street CK.  You can't expect NG to be the only one who has to reflect upon their behaviour.

 

The policy is for people not to bite when these occur and they vent behind closed doors, regardless of whom it is, or what sphere they are part of.

And also, you've had the opportunity for this to be a two way street.  Many times before. 

 

It's hilarious that you've suggested that because I was never given that opportunity to explain, and be heard when the OOC attacks were directed at myself.  I was just told "You're wrong, you're lying". 

 

 

[Stewie]

3 minutes ago, citizenkane said:

It was in response to SirWilliam saying "get your ... together" and thanks for building bridges. 

 

Entirely appropriate, under the circumstances. 

 

Your 'no u' approach is tired and your lack of understanding of why this is an issue is at best ignorance or at worst a willful disregard for people. 

 

Oh - apologies.  The new regulations were discussed and agreed with our allies after Unkajo posted.

[citizenkane]

Just now, Stewie said:

 

Oh - apologies.  The new regulations were discussed and agreed with our allies after Unkajo posted.

 

Are these the same regulations that you implemented back in March? 

 

"I will be looking at using this as the basis for general community standards moving forwards.
0. Don't be in Nuclear Anarchy, if you must be in nuclear anarchy, make sure the enemy is also in nuclear anarchy.
1. No threats of doxing or actual doxing
2. No threatening members who disagree with you, either via discord or in game actions
3. When problems happen, go to an independent NG Gov for resolutions rather than airing grievances within other discord servers." 

[firingline]

1 hour ago, citizenkane said:

 

 

Can you see why everyone is tired of this rubbish from NG, @Stewie even on a thread, apologizing for OOC attacks, and stating you are implementing policies etc for your members to continue with these small microagressions aimed at Boog on the very same thread is actually evidence that you hold no power in NG and that nothing can, or will ever change. 

 

A leopard never changes their spots.  No matter how hard they try.  

 

You fire just as many OOC attacks at others.

Edited May 29, 2021 by firingline

[citizenkane]

19 minutes ago, firingline said:

 

You fire just as many OOC attacks at others.

 

Pot, kettle. 

[Buuyo]

40 minutes ago, citizenkane said:

 

Pot, kettle. 

 

You fire just as many OOC attacks at others and your responses to this thread show that there is no intention on your part to move forward. Quite unbecoming of someone of your standing, to be honest.

There is a fine line between OOC and IC that should not be crossed anywhere at any point in time. That line has been crossed multiple times by multiple people over multiple communication platforms. I applaud Stewie for coming out with this apology as a commitment to bettering the community, but the commitment needs to be followed through. I have been watching the tensions between NG and Boognish over the past few months; neither side is innocent in the events that led to the breakdown in relations here, regardless of the claims of either side. There needs to be visible change in the attitudes from members of both sides in order for any sort of resolution to stick.

I agree with White Chocolate that we need to be consistent as a community in handling these situations. That being said, there is no official world congress here to act as an impartial party in these matters. Cooler heads are needed in order to effectively get to the bottom of these situations and deal with them.

 

NG is being pressured by its allies to ensure they follow through on this commitment and they are taking steps to ensure this does not happen again. We consider NG a close ally, but the behaviour that has been shown by some members in the past few months is unnecessary and unacceptable regardless of what provocation did or did not occur. Stewie has shown to be more than a capable leader and he has Polar's full support in implementing whatever changes he needs to in order to be proactive in preventing situations like these in the future.

[citizenkane]

43 minutes ago, Buuyo said:

 

You fire just as many OOC attacks at others

 

Repeating what FL said doesnt make it true, I'm afraid. 

This is the first I've heard of such accusation, you know where our discord is if you want to come and chat about this.