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12 hours ago, HeroofTime55 said:


LH has a 0 infra, 0 tech, 0 land nation, he is a non-participant in this world, he has never been in a state of not having given up.  His only contribution is to mislead others into the line of fire, from which he is blissfully unaffected.

This is exactly what I see.  I have seen 2 days old nations with better stats. He has even admited he only hides behind bigger nations so they can do the dirty work. I can't believe people actually follow this clown.

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2 hours ago, General Kanabis said:

 

 

 

I mean granted, we can argue that the Oc is free to determine the outcome of that particular incident and we may conclude hostilities on that front, but aiding and harboring TDE is another CB entirely.

 

 

Right...

 

because during our second attempt (on discord) to try and come to a deal to end THIS war, everyone else in Cobrasphere decided to back the "term" that TDE needs to decommission his SDI and go six rounds with Lucius in order to achieve peace for KNB

 

I don't think so, GK.  Your side has decided to mix the two wars.  They want to make this all about revenge against CLAWS via poor TDE on behalf of the hurt feelings and broken ego of  @Lucius Optimus

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14 minutes ago, White Chocolate said:

Right...

 

because during our second attempt (on discord) to try and come to a deal to end THIS war, everyone else in Cobrasphere decided to back the "term" that TDE needs to decommission his SDI and go six rounds with Lucius in order to achieve peace for KNB

 

I don't think so, GK.  Your side has decided to mix the two wars.  They want to make this all about revenge against CLAWS via poor TDE on behalf of the hurt feelings and broken ego of  @Lucius Optimus

 

No, WC, TDE is in general seen as scum by pretty much everyone that is aware of the story, except from Claws of course and it makes sense.

 

Truth is he's recognized as rogue by everyone, even Claws, and someone almost no one has sympathy for. It has nothing to do with Claws at all.  TDE is a rogue being harbored in KNB. We'll be glad to follow him wherever he goes for as long as we can. I honestly like that idea better than letting him off the hook with a mere 1 on 1 and his SDI.

Edited by Kapleo
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35 minutes ago, White Chocolate said:

Right...

 

because during our second attempt (on discord) to try and come to a deal to end THIS war, everyone else in Cobrasphere decided to back the "term" that TDE needs to decommission his SDI and go six rounds with Lucius in order to achieve peace for KNB

 

Thank you for reiterating what I already said.

We had no intention of letting TDE just walk away.

 

TDE terms were presented as a coalition effort, but LH went and forfeited the right to treat us all together when he went and pulled this little stunt. Same applies to certain terms, including that one.

The demand to have him decommission his SDI had nothing at all to do with TIE/CLAWS.

Conflating the two wars is only beneficial to your side tbh.

We have our own reasons, like the fact that this guy was actually conducting rogue activites against us and we felt like it was a necessary measure to ensure the safety of our lower tier.

It most

Certainly 

Was not

A joke term.

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15 minutes ago, Lord Hitchcock said:

 


image0.png

 

 

 

Nice cropping yourself

 

WC brought up the subject on her own and Johnny goes on to call it a constant ducking and weaving of our actual grievances, while admitting that it is in the back of his mind.

 

Point of order, it was a collective term and I stand by what I say.

Nice try.

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7 hours ago, White Chocolate said:

Right...

 

because during our second attempt (on discord) to try and come to a deal to end THIS war, everyone else in Cobrasphere decided to back the "term" that TDE needs to decommission his SDI and go six rounds with Lucius in order to achieve peace for KNB

 

I don't think so, GK.  Your side has decided to mix the two wars.  They want to make this all about revenge against CLAWS via poor TDE on behalf of the hurt feelings and broken ego of  @Lucius Optimus


CLAWS wants to make this the new standard, I don't understand why you are crying about it.

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11 hours ago, General Kanabis said:

 

-snip-

So let me get this straight. You guys try to create a spy network, starting with CLAWS. TDE sends this info up the food chain. CLAWS hits TIE. You're pissed TDE did that, so you're going to punish TDE/KNB because YOU guys tried to create a spy network?

 

Lucious already took responsibility for it, but you're trying to redirect the blame and make it seem like it wasn't your fault for trying to create a spy ring in the first place. Before you go putting your foot in your mouth, i'd be careful for what you say next, or else you might give CLAWS a CB to hit you too.

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2 hours ago, Liltrekkie said:

So let me get this straight. You guys try to create a spy network, starting with CLAWS. TDE sends this info up the food chain. CLAWS hits TIE. You're pissed TDE did that, so you're going to punish TDE/KNB because YOU guys tried to create a spy network?

 

Lucious already took responsibility for it, but you're trying to redirect the blame and make it seem like it wasn't your fault for trying to create a spy ring in the first place. Before you go putting your foot in your mouth, i'd be careful for what you say next, or else you might give CLAWS a CB to hit you too.

"You guys" sounds like a lot of people. TDE had admited planning the whole thing; Lucius falling into it gave him what he was looking for. All TDE did was using Claws as cannon fodder to fulfill his agenda, to "crush" TIE and Cobra so please, stop defending that scum, he's not some whistle-blower hero that cared about Claws' well being, he sent them to war over his selfish motives. This whole situation was fabricated by him, we thought Claws was quietly aware of this but turns out they were not. Now Claws knows the truth, which is that they are just another victim in this story.

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1 hour ago, Liltrekkie said:

So let me get this straight. You guys try to create a spy network, starting with CLAWS. TDE sends this info up the food chain. CLAWS hits TIE. You're pissed TDE did that, so you're going to punish TDE/KNB because YOU guys tried to create a spy network?

 

Lucious already took responsibility for it, but you're trying to redirect the blame and make it seem like it wasn't your fault for trying to create a spy ring in the first place. Before you go putting your foot in your mouth, i'd be careful for what you say next, or else you might give CLAWS a CB to hit you too.

 

Oh my.... there are a lot of things wrong with this post right here. If you're going to -snip- at someone  else's quote at least have your facts right.

 

- TDE has been considered a rogue prior to his involvement with KNB, therefore we consider him a separate matter to be dealt with. KNB need only be be concerned with regards to TDE for as long as they provide him shelter.

 

- Lucius was approached by TDE who offered his services as a spy while residing in CLAWS. He also approached me (a total stranger to him at the time) offering the same thing. Lucius briefly entertained the notion because he once considered TDE a friend; I brushed him off as some random weirdo trying to bait me. The former is the extent of the "spy network" that you're bigging up, the latter is increasingly looking to be the reality in the time that has elapsed since.  (And why aren't you denouncing the person who actually was offering to be the spy by the way?)

 

- A month or so later; TDE was caught launching spy operations against a COBRA nation after a number of successful attempts. He then dropped his CLAWS affiliation to attack us and was funded by Banned, who has stated he considered himself a dual-member of CLAWS and has now actually joined them.

 

So,the only thing KNB are being "punished" for with regards to TDE? They are harbouring a rogue who has openly stated hostile intent toward us, which as I said; they bring it on themselves only for as long as they give him shelter. It should also be noted they provided shelter to TDE before we were officially at war with KNB.

 

Why are KNB currently still at war with us? Hypothetically speaking; if you're in a bar-fight and the other person lowers their fists to say "Fine I lose" to make you stop. But after doing so, they go for you with a broken bottle and start hucking trash in your direction as they try and saunter away? Does that reflect the behaviour of someone who has given up- who has surrendered? Or is it reflective of someone who you probably shouldn't turn your back on just yet? At least not until you've delivered one last pint glass to their eye for good measure.

 

The surrender of KNB will be accepted fully at some point I'm sure- not just yet though I'm afraid. We could've already been at peace by now funnily enough. We were waiting on White Chocolate to confirm if Banned would add his signature to the surrender, given his active involvement within his time flying KNB colours. Hitchcock then fired from his hip at us with this attempt to weasel himself (and his friends who joined CLAWS after posting this) out of the war on his own terms.

 

His friends may have gotten away but sorry/not sorry for not allowing that to happen for KNB as a whole I guess? If the patrons of the bar are unhappy with this; they can blame the landlord.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Kapleo said:

"You guys" sounds like a lot of people. TDE had admited planning the whole thing; Lucius falling into it gave him what he was looking for. All TDE did was using Claws as cannon fodder to fulfill his agenda, to "crush" TIE and Cobra so please, stop defending that scum, he's not some whistle-blower hero that cared about Claws' well being, he sent them to war over his selfish motives. This whole situation was fabricated by him, we thought Claws was quietly aware of this but turns out they were not. Now Claws knows the truth, which is that they are just another victim in this story.

 

Oh please, everyone knows how tight knit the cobrasphere is, I have no doubts that all of you are involved in some fashion or another.

 

 

1 hour ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

 

Oh my.... there are a lot of things wrong with this post right here. If you're going to -snip- at someone  else's quote at least have your facts right.

 

- TDE has been considered a rogue prior to his involvement with KNB, therefore we consider him a separate matter to be dealt with. KNB need only be be concerned with regards to TDE for as long as they provide him shelter.

 

- Lucius was approached by TDE who offered his services as a spy while residing in CLAWS. He also approached me (a total stranger to him at the time) offering the same thing. Lucius briefly entertained the notion because he once considered TDE a friend; I brushed him off as some random weirdo trying to bait me. The former is the extent of the "spy network" that you're bigging up, the latter is increasingly looking to be the reality in the time that has elapsed since.  (And why aren't you denouncing the person who actually was offering to be the spy by the way?)

 

- A month or so later; TDE was caught launching spy operations against a COBRA nation after a number of successful attempts. He then dropped his CLAWS affiliation to attack us and was funded by Banned, who has stated he considered himself a dual-member of CLAWS and has now actually joined them.

 

So,the only thing KNB are being "punished" for with regards to TDE? They are harbouring a rogue who has openly stated hostile intent toward us, which as I said; they bring it on themselves only for as long as they give him shelter. It should also be noted they provided shelter to TDE before we were officially at war with KNB.

 

Why are KNB currently still at war with us? Hypothetically speaking; if you're in a bar-fight and the other person lowers their fists to say "Fine I lose" to make you stop. But after doing so, they go for you with a broken bottle and start hucking trash in your direction as they try and saunter away? Does that reflect the behaviour of someone who has given up- who has surrendered? Or is it reflective of someone who you probably shouldn't turn your back on just yet? At least not until you've delivered one last pint glass to their eye for good measure.

 

The surrender of KNB will be accepted fully at some point I'm sure- not just yet though I'm afraid. We could've already been at peace by now funnily enough. We were waiting on White Chocolate to confirm if Banned would add his signature to the surrender, given his active involvement within his time flying KNB colours. Hitchcock then fired from his hip at us with this attempt to weasel himself (and his friends who joined CLAWS after posting this) out of the war on his own terms.

 

His friends may have gotten away but sorry/not sorry for not allowing that to happen for KNB as a whole I guess? If the patrons of the bar are unhappy with this; they can blame the landlord.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you're telling me, you considered TDE a rouge while he was affiliated with CLAWS, Mongoose, who is a KNB ally, and lastly, KNB. Through that entire point you considered him a rouge eh? Nah, no dice.

 

Considering Lucious already admitted his wrong doings, continuing to try and spin your story doesn't make sense. It's in the screenshots, Lucious said "we need to trust each other", so it sure sounds like Lucious reached out first. If any of what you were saying was true, it would have been stated in the CLAWS/TIE peace agreement. Here is what I think, I think the Cobrasphere leadership tried to create a spy network, Lucious reached out to TDE who they had a past with, who was in CLAWS at the time to make this happen. Meanwhile to limit potential damage, Lucious kept most of it 1 on 1 between him and TDE. I am sure somewhere, in some DM or group you all have, is all of you discussing the creation of a spy network. None of you are the poor little innocents you're trying to spin, now you've been backtracking since the information made its way back home and have been trying not to get yourselves hit by CLAWS. Lets not forget Lucious offered to create a discord with "up to 10 people" and I dont doubt you were one of them.

 

Personally, I have to give props to Lucious to allowing himself to be a meat shield for you JA. He sacrificed his nation, and countless others under his command so you wouldn't be hit too.

Edited by Liltrekkie
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26 minutes ago, Liltrekkie said:

 

 

Considering Lucious ... Lucious ... Lucious ..., Lucious .... Lucious ...Lucious 

 

...Lucious ...

Ya'll acting like calling him Luscious Lucius isn't something I've been doing since I met him

 

Edited by Tankobite
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2 hours ago, Liltrekkie said:

 

Oh please, everyone knows how tight knit the cobrasphere is, I have no doubts that all of you are involved in some fashion or another.

 

 

 

So you're telling me, you considered TDE a rouge while he was affiliated with CLAWS, Mongoose, who is a KNB ally, and lastly, KNB. Through that entire point you considered him a rouge eh? Nah, no dice.

 

Considering Lucious already admitted his wrong doings, continuing to try and spin your story doesn't make sense. It's in the screenshots, Lucious said "we need to trust each other", so it sure sounds like Lucious reached out first. If any of what you were saying was true, it would have been stated in the CLAWS/TIE peace agreement. Here is what I think, I think the Cobrasphere leadership tried to create a spy network, Lucious reached out to TDE who they had a past with, who was in CLAWS at the time to make this happen. Meanwhile to limit potential damage, Lucious kept most of it 1 on 1 between him and TDE. I am sure somewhere, in some DM or group you all have, is all of you discussing the creation of a spy network. None of you are the poor little innocents you're trying to spin, now you've been backtracking since the information made its way back home and have been trying not to get yourselves hit by CLAWS. Lets not forget Lucious offered to create a discord with "up to 10 people" and I dont doubt you were one of them.

 

Personally, I have to give props to Lucious to allowing himself to be a meat shield for you JA. He sacrificed his nation, and countless others under his command so you wouldn't be hit too.

 

Just because we are tightly-knit group, that doesn't mean that we do not also have the capacity to act autonomously and pursue things independently which we may not always share with each other. He's considered a rogue for trying to bait people into agreeing to have him spy on a foriegn entity, he is a rogue for launching spy ops on COBRA and then attacking us after being exposed. He is a rogue because he has openly stated to myself and my other allies that he was pursuing the destruction of COBRA.I  highly doubt that he will see that end, he'd be more of a persistent gnat for us to bat away, but a rogue is a rogue. Walks like a rogue, quacks like a rogue.....

 

If you look at my post, you'll notice a recurring theme: the involvement of CLAWS through direct and indirect actions towards my sphere (and the fact that most nations who have gone rogue against us have come from CLAWS this past year). I could easily argue that the opposite were true and there was a concerted effort from CLAWS to pursue aggressive action against us and maybe even try to embed spies among us, as well as claim there exists a DM/Group chat somewhere where elements of CLAWS have been working against us for some time. But there exists no concrete evidence of that, I have only a sequence of events that have transpired with some small correlating links to draw such a conclusion. As such I won't be making that accusation. You, however, also lack evidence because what you "think" happened is objectively incorrect, so there exists no evidence to verify what you think happened vs. what actualy happened  (No spy network was establish, the idea was briefly entertained by Luc- end of "spy network")

 

Also, Point of order: TDE reached out to Lucius and TDE offered his services. Lucius' error was entertaining the idea but no "spy network" against CLAWS was truly pursued or established with the help of TDE, or anyone else for that matter. If Lucius planned to make a server as you claim? I would have refused the invite and advise him to not pursue that path because a) not cool, even if they had been belligerent b) It was clearly bait to encourage us to going along with it, to be used at a later date. Lucius saying "we need to trust each other" doesn't suggest which one of them reached out first, but if he did? Again, it was not with a view to asking him to start up a spy-network- they were old friends who Lucius was reconnecting with. I consider that to be much more likely than him going to TDE to directly ask "Help me set up a spy network within CLAWS with your access!" - You've seen the logs and you know this to be true.  It was offered to him by TDE (and to me, the guy he didn't know other than that I am the leader of Cobra), that's probably why Lucius stated the need for trust before entertaining the idea. As you said, he fessed up to entertaining the idea of pursuing a spy network but he had no success and did so unilaterally.

 

I've also not been trying to avoid geting hit by CLAWS, while they have some belligerent members who openly dislike us and vice versa? The idea I am avoiding CLAWS hitting me is also incorrect. As it suggests I would be doing so because I was under the impression that they were trying to genuinely pursue a means of initiating hostilities with us. Things have been frosty I won't deny that, however Jazzy himself has openly stated he did not want war to expand to us but expected as much when he hit TIE, suffice to say I'm sure he was pleasantly surprised to see we were being reasonable and cool-headed about it. I've had conversations with WC as well lately, despite our residence in opposing political spheres? I like to think we got on on some level.

 

 

What I have learned from what you are saying; is that you lowkey actually want us to be at war with CLAWS. You make a lot of accusations without evidence and you have made some telling statements that seem to be in favour of such an outcome. A sentiment that is not alien to you I am sure. I had no need to cover myself with a meatshield and Lucius certainly didn't take ownership to that end because I did not need protecting, his own alliance was in danger- ensuring their security following the declaration from CLAWS was his priority.

 

However if you have an axe to grind with us yourself? You may well have an opportunity soon, which will culminate with us collectively accepting KNB surrender and them getting peace, we are waiting on unanimous consent from our engaged parties before presenting it.

 

I sincerely think you and KNB might actually like it.

 

Edited by Johnny Apocalypse
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It is pretty evident to me that the SDI decom is a literal response to unhappiness about Lucius' decom. If that isn't an attempt at provocation, I'm not sure what is. I said as much to Kapleo in his embassy on the GATO server when he brought up this recent development.

 

If you don't think KNB is connected to CLAWS, it doesn't make sense to mirror a term against Lucius that you've called unjust and drag their CB into this conflict. Doing so makes this a CLAWS issue because you mingle CBs. The inclusion of Lucius' nation in particular shows that his apology isn't genuine and could be seen as a violation of his agreement for peace.

 

If you do think KNB is connected to CLAWS you are instigating a war with them right now. 

 

Both of these don't make much sense for a group of alliances who want to not be at war with CLAWS. And in both scenarios the outcome is the same. As I advised Kapleo, it makes sense to punish TDE, it doesn't make sense to ask for wonder decoms and bring Lucius into the terms, because it effectively reignites the CB for the CLAWS-TIE war. I understand wanting to punish someone who got an ally rolled, tis' tradition. I don't understand why you'd try to force conflict with CLAWS and probably miss out on any justice you could gain.

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30 minutes ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

-snipped the BS-

I cannot believe you wrote all that toxic waste. So now CLAWS has it out for poor ol' cobrasphere? Please, save it for someone who cares. I'll wager that not one person there gives a hoot about cobra, they just dont like your smug face. They dont need a CB to stomp you, they could stomp you at any time they felt like it. And yet, they dont. Yeah sure seems like they have it out for you. 

 

Also, you never condemn the whistleblower. There are laws to protect them you know, not that you care. And on that note, if he was approached by TDE and not the other way around, where are those screenshots? Oh wait, they dont exist, because it never happened. 

 

Nice try though. TIE was caught, he admitted to it. Stop the BS, stop the spin. Its over. TIE lost. No amount of spinning will change that L. 

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22 minutes ago, Tevron said:

The inclusion of Lucius' nation in particular shows that his apology isn't genuine and could be seen as a violation of his agreement for peace.

 

Pray tell in what way? Not according to the terms we agreed to and that Argent is overseeing. 

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32 minutes ago, Tevron said:

It is pretty evident to me that the SDI decom is a literal response to unhappiness about Lucius' decom. If that isn't an attempt at provocation, I'm not sure what is. I said as much to Kapleo in his embassy on the GATO server when he brought up this recent development.

 

If you don't think KNB is connected to CLAWS, it doesn't make sense to mirror a term against Lucius that you've called unjust and drag their CB into this conflict. Doing so makes this a CLAWS issue because you mingle CBs. The inclusion of Lucius' nation in particular shows that his apology isn't genuine and could be seen as a violation of his agreement for peace.

 

If you do think KNB is connected to CLAWS you are instigating a war with them right now. 

 

Both of these don't make much sense for a group of alliances who want to not be at war with CLAWS. And in both scenarios the outcome is the same. As I advised Kapleo, it makes sense to punish TDE, it doesn't make sense to ask for wonder decoms and bring Lucius into the terms, because it effectively reignites the CB for the CLAWS-TIE war. I understand wanting to punish someone who got an ally rolled, tis' tradition. I don't understand why you'd try to force conflict with CLAWS and probably miss out on any justice you could gain.

 

By having suspicions based on correlating evidence, I am instigating a war because I'm committing a thought crime? I know you guys love bureaucracy at GATO but don't go all 1984 on me ;)

 

Is TDE affiliated with CLAWS currently? I stated above that I consider TDE to be not involved with KNB, I have suspicions that TDE was sent out to Lucius and myself to bait us into agreeing to accepting intelligence acquired via espionage, from where I do not know. The consequences of that baiting has lead to my ally losing his SDI for the sake of peace for his alliance. It is very much a tit-for-tat request, but it is not pointed as a barb at CLAWS it is merely that TDE betrayed his friend by offering to be a spy for the very alliance who rolled TIE and then passing that information along to CLAWS to have TIE attacked. Yet still no one is acknowledging or denouncing TDE for being the one who actually offered to spy on CLAWS for not one but two people in different alliances with  troubled relationships with CLAWS as it stood.

 

I would also like to inform you that there was an attempt for CLAWS to be drawn into the negotiation channel with KNB and WC acting as LH's lawyer, by way of stating that CLAWS were interested in getting peace for TDE. Both myself and Kapleo were clear that this matter was separate and did not concern the dispute with KNB and were curious regarding their interest in protecting TDE. We then went about discussing it on different ground away from the KNB discussion to clarify that we do not consider the two matters to be linked and expressed our reasoning for considering him to be a rogue with reasons that do not necessarily include him passing intel on with a view to frame Lucius.

 

As I have also stated repeatedly, COBRA consider TDE a rogue as he was caught spying our nations followed by dropping the CLAWs AA (presumably out of consideration to not cause them any trouble from his actions) and proceeding to attack us directly. He was then sponsored by Banned who is a dual-member of CLAWS and currently flies their flag again. He has openly expressed to me that he seeks the destruction of COBRA. My personal feelings aside: He is objectively a rogue all the same and will be treated accordingly

 

----

 

 

What I am seeing however Tevron, is a lot of war hawking and posturing pointed in our direction along with accusations that we seek war with CLAWS to justify this conduct or that we  are "providing them CBs" for simply speaking our minds- this is far from the truth. I am merely advocating for my ally by correcting mistruths or misinformed perspective. My ally who, while he committed a wrong in entertaining that notion that lead to war? He was also wronged himself and that very person who wronged him is now being extended a helping hand from some CLAWS with a view to him achieving peace with us. Remember he offered to spy CLAWS on for Lucius, yet Lucius is the only one who was punished and placed under very heavy scrutiny and this concept of a "spy network" became a narrative reality without any evidence of one existing beyond Lucius' brief interaction with TDE. If anything I am trying to point out to CLAWS that vouching for a chatacter like TDE is unwise given his willingness to spy on them for foreign parties, one of whom he did not know (me)

Edited by Johnny Apocalypse
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Just now, General Kanabis said:

 

I certainly hope so.

Quite frankly, they have been looking for one for quite some time!

Feel free to give them one. Like say you could admit your involvement with that certain spy ring?

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