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Our Surrender- KNB


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2 minutes ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

 

 

Never in the history of attempts to disband has one been successful, and neither did I ever consider that Hitchcock would allow such a thing to happen. I know you think me delusional, but come on?

 

I countered their offers, I asked for recognition of wrongdoing and failure. Apparently that was too much? Their counteroffer was literally expecting White Peace and hoping we'd let everything else slide.

 

No dice.

I guess you aren't old enough to remember NAAC then. 2007 was a good time.

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3 hours ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

I hereby acknowledge your surrender, as it is futile to deny the objective reality of your defeat and for the sake of a quiet life I'm just gonna ignore all the above outright lies and babbling about you being the victim in our dispute.

 

Withdrawal of forces will be left to the discretion of the aggrieved/engaged parties who accept this surrender.

 

24 minutes ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

 

To clarify: Acknowledge =! Accept

 

Seemed clear enough to me.

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I have gotten a few embassy requests, will clarify our willingness to further improve relations with separate entities who recognize our surrender.
 

Furthermore, I will not entertain request for separate exits or additional signatures, this was a bloc entry. Your bloc representation chose to abuse his privilege and prevent any meaningful progress, hence our decision to move forward on our own accord.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Lord Hitchcock said:


you wanted an apology, I asked for why, you said ‘well you know’ I explained no I didn’t, wanted a list to see what I could acknowledge. You said you would present a list, you didn’t. I again asked for a list you said you were granting me the benefit of not getting the list, I asked to be granted the benefit of getting the list. You never gave the list.

 

all I had to work with was your NLoN statement, which I did the best I could to appease, then thrash said well coming from the leader of KNB is not good enough, well he doesn’t represent my alliance as they’ve been both been suspended.

 

anyhoo, I acknowledged you handled this ‘well’.

 

Amazing when we aren’t at your beck and call how fast the demands come pouring in, you had your chance. No dice.

 

I'll pull up some shots later of the many times I specified the grievances you kept brushing off. (OOC: Work)

 

32 minutes ago, Liltrekkie said:

I guess you aren't old enough to remember NAAC then. 2007 was a good time.

 

Oh I 'member. And I remember the alliances those people went to and how they carried their grudges and pursued revenge as a result.

 

Hence it being a futile endeavour.

 

23 minutes ago, Banned said:

 

 

Seemed clear enough to me.

 

I know you aren't actually as thick as fudge but I'll explain to you one more time as though you are:

 

I acknowledge that KNB wish to surrender. This has been apparent for some time.

 

I do not accept their surrender in the presented format. If you wish to exit with us as a collective bloc you should have remained at the table. You do not get to pick up your ball and go home scott-free.

 

The last message in the discussion was White Chocolate stating she was going to confirm whether or not Banned would agree to signing the surrender. Then, to her apparent surprise, you abruptly posted this instead and shut down the negotiation channel.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Thrash said:

 

 

JA told you exactly what he wanted for surrender conditions.

I was there the entire discussion, starting on October 14.  I have been in plenty of other peace talks and *I* had a hard time figuring out exactly what JA wanted.  I still do not really know, frankly. 

 

First it was that he wanted LH to show that he was "sincere" without giving any indication of exactly (in a actionable and specific way) what LH could do to show that and no promises of whatever LH did to attempt to show that working.

 

When it was made clear that LH was not going to just do something and hope it worked, the discussions turned to Banned "admitting" to both "plotting" and then "failing" to get Cobrasphere rolled.  Banned did a "joke" version of that which I warned JA about.  It could have been accepted but was not.

 

To be clear, I had no idea that @Lord Hitchcockwas going to post this without first getting it agreed to officially, however @Johnny Apocalypsewas anything but clear most of the time.  

 

 

Edited by White Chocolate
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Unless KNB is offering an immediate and unconditional surrender, I think it’s probably premature to post a thread like this without ascertaining if the other party has agreed to your terms.

 

To paraphrase a philosopher, a single party can initiate the war, but it will take both parties to end it.

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4 minutes ago, Tankobite said:

Unless KNB is offering an immediate and unconditional surrender, I think it’s probably premature to post a thread like this without ascertaining if the other party has agreed to your terms.

 

To paraphrase a philosopher, a single party can initiate the war, but it will take both parties to end it.

This

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8 minutes ago, White Chocolate said:

I was there, the entire time.  I am still there.  I know what is in the discussion first hand.

That’s cool. Doesn’t change the fact that what you said has been clearly contradicted by this bizarre “Hail Mary.”

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2 minutes ago, Tankobite said:

That’s cool. Doesn’t change the fact that what you said has been clearly contradicted by this bizarre “Hail Mary.”

okay - you are referring the fact that he posted now.  In THIS particular case he seems to be posting something in the hope that it works.  It is not what I suggested.  JA still was far from clear regarding any terms, however.   

 

 

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14 minutes ago, White Chocolate said:

okay - you are referring the fact that he posted now.  In THIS particular case he seems to be posting something in the hope that it works.  It is not what I suggested.  JA still was far from clear regarding any terms, however.   

 

 

 

- LH acknowledging that his aggressive actions at the helm of KNB toward me and my allies is what lead to military confrontation.

 

- Banned admitting his actions were carried out with a view to undermining, baiting and sabotaging me and my allies. The primary goal being our destruction and his failure to do so

 

- Any sort of considerate gesture which KNB would consider making toward the parties they have wronged in their pursuit of this absurd grudge?

 

 

Basically; a shred of some kind of humility. That's literally all it would have taken from either of them.

 

Instead they have shown time and time again they prefer the path of belligerence to that of the pretense of "amicable peace" which Hitchcock invited me to the table to discuss. This current middle-finger of a surrender is a perfect example of the aforementioned belligerent stance adopted towards COBRA and our immediate allies by KNB, spearheaded primarily by Hitchcock and Banned.

 

If what I sought was unclear? It just tells me how alien the concept of humility is to you, given that it needs spelling out over and over again.

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Well, here goes the official statement: Your surrender is welcome, but we need to agree on the surrender terms. I sent an embassy invitation for peace talks and it was rejected. Looking forward to speak with the KNB leadership. 

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18 minutes ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

 

- LH acknowledging that his aggressive actions at the helm of KNB toward me and my allies is what lead to military confrontation.

 

- Banned admitting his actions were carried out with a view to undermining, baiting and sabotaging me and my allies. The primary goal being our destruction and his failure to do so

 

- Any sort of considerate gesture which KNB would consider making toward the parties they have wronged in their pursuit of this absurd grudge?

 

 

Basically; a shred of some kind of humility. That's literally all it would have taken from either of them.

 

Instead they have shown time and time again they prefer the path of belligerence to that of the pretense of "amicable peace" which Hitchcock invited me to the table to discuss. This current middle-finger of a surrender is a perfect example of the aforementioned belligerent stance adopted towards COBRA and our immediate allies by KNB, spearheaded primarily by Hitchcock and Banned.

 

If what I sought was unclear? It just tells me how alien the concept of humility is to you, given that it needs spelling out over and over again.

You should have held out longer on accepting the surrender then, instead of accepting it and then backpeddling.  But hey, better luck next time.

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Just now, Banned said:

*incoherent squawking*

 

It seems the signal isn't too great  now that you've flown home.

 

A real shame too, given you and I were having such fulfilling dialogue with evidence of some real progress toward better relations!

 

C'est la vie eh?

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8 minutes ago, Banned said:

You should have held out longer on accepting the surrender then, instead of accepting it and then backpeddling.  But hey, better luck next time.

Doesn't really matter, as Johnny said, there was no date agreed upon to end hostilities even for those who accepted the surrender statement. Better luck next time. Back to the table in the meantime.

Edited by Kapleo
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33 minutes ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

 

 

 

If what I sought was unclear? It just tells me how alien the concept of humility is to you, given that it needs spelling out over and over again.

The concept of humility is not alien to me.  The challenge was that you expected us to know just what "humility" means to you in actionable (OOC: in a text based game) terms that LH could do AND that would be acceptable to you.  We are not mind readers.  

 

A. "LH acknowledging that his aggressive actions at the helm of KNB toward me and my allies is what lead to military confrontation."

- what in particular (assuming this surrender is not good enough) does he need to say?   

 

B. "Banned admitting his actions were carried out with a view to undermining, baiting and sabotaging me and my allies. The primary goal being our destruction and his failure to do so."

- LH can not make @Bannedadmit anything Banned does not want to admit.  The best he can do is kick Banned out of his AA.  He did that above. 

 

C. "Any sort of considerate gesture which KNB would consider making toward the parties they have wronged in their pursuit of this absurd grudge?"

- this is wide open and anything LH decided to do you could easily reply by saying it does not "show enough consideration" and then just continue attacking.  I get the general idea, however there was no direction on what that means.  By "considerate gesture" did you mean reparations?  An apology? (which we agreed would be insincere and you said you did not want as a result) 

 

D. "Basically; a shred of some kind of humility. That's literally all it would have taken from either of them. "

- that is literally what a surrender is, a method of showing humility.  You win, we surrender. 

 

 

Edited by White Chocolate
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6 minutes ago, Kapleo said:

Doesn't really matter, as Johnny said, there was no date agreed upon to end hostilities even for those who accepted the surrender statement. Better luck next time. Back to the table in the meantime.

Yes, yes.  "We accept your surrender"  *turns* "shoot the prisoners".

 

We all saw how it went down.  No point arguing semantics Kapleo.  If Johnny didn't respect you enough to consult you before he accepted surrender, that doesn't sound like an LH problem.  It's how he treats all his allies really, he thinks he is a puppet master, but he's just a puppet.  Anyway, good war all.  Gratz on peace everyone.

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8 minutes ago, Banned said:

If Johnny didn't respect you enough to consult you before he accepted surrender, that doesn't sound like an LH problem. 

 

I didn't know I was Cobra's leader and that they had to consult me for their decisions. Our treaty with Ordo is the one that gives me the right to remain in this war. For the looks of it, Ordo didn't seem to accept this weird, never seen before unilateral peace.

 

17 minutes ago, Banned said:

 Anyway, good war all.  Gratz on peace everyone.

 

Lol, yeah, gratz everyone and magically there's peace. There will be no peace until all parties agree to it. 

 

10 minutes ago, JBone said:

Surrender rejected, carry on.

 

^^^

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