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16 hours ago, The Zigur said:

Don't forget the missing step!

 

0. Instigate a proxy war against FTW to soften them up in preparation for a future invasion. Reduce bloc cohesion and attempt to use Legion to split the bloc or abstain from conflict. Turn the momentum in Oculus against RFI and ultimately IRON.

 

Of course this all failed with Oculus intervening on behalf of RFI. If anyone is at risk of being isolated now it is Polar, as the combined RFI/IRON side of Oculus has alot more super-tier weight than Polar does. 

Well considering I've been touted as the mastermind behind the occ going to hit RFI. Its funnier that you all think I have the effort required to spend on such a task of magnitude that Junka is ranting about. I mean the most that got was me expressing my desire to roll FTW because I can't stand the incessant whining that comes from them.

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11 hours ago, General Kanabis said:

 

Except it was.

Death Adder involved himself because you idiots were demanding things like reps.

And he specifically made sure to isolate your tormentors well before anything else.

 

They were very much guided by a desire to save FTW from themselves and their own stupidity.

Anything else they used in their CB could've easily been applied to a wide range of entities, including certain Doombirds with trillion dollar warchests and a desire to bring down Oculus from within.

Keep changing history. You were told to come up with an alternative to tech deals AT THE BEGINNING of negotiations and could not. We proposed several alternatives you also wouldn't accept. Instead you opted to fight until it was an admission of defeat. What's the point in lying about this stuff?

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19 minutes ago, Tevron said:

Keep changing history. You were told to come up with an alternative to tech deals AT THE BEGINNING of negotiations and could not. We proposed several alternatives you also wouldn't accept. Instead you opted to fight until it was an admission of defeat. What's the point in lying about this stuff?

 

I believe the alternative to tech deals that we presented was White Peace.  I remember this because you got awfully frustrated that my suggestion didn't involve a simple reduction of tech to be sold, rather that the term be dropped altogether

 

So this was rejected and we opted to fight until you dropped the tech deals. Then you returned with idea of a controlled demolition of our warchests because of the 'threat' you claim we posed (or maybe not you personally, maybe you spoke for someone else in RFI at the time). We rejected this too.

 

The alternatives presented from your side did not suggest to me that a meaningful peace would emerge by agreeing to them.

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3 minutes ago, HeroofTime55 said:

WAE in the business of demanding reps in terms now.  That is hilarious.

 

They should make me their Viceroy imo :awesome:

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13 minutes ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

 

They should make me their Viceroy imo :awesome:

 

18 minutes ago, HeroofTime55 said:

WAE in the business of demanding reps in terms now.  That is hilarious.

 

Thank you both, I needed the laugh.

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3 hours ago, Tevron said:

Keep changing history. You were told to come up with an alternative to tech deals AT THE BEGINNING of negotiations and could not. We proposed several alternatives you also wouldn't accept. Instead you opted to fight until it was an admission of defeat. What's the point in lying about this stuff?

 

What was GATOs role in asking for reps?

 

Don't make me come home and run for AC. I might win.

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3 hours ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

 

I believe the alternative to tech deals that we presented was White Peace.  I remember this because you got awfully frustrated that my suggestion didn't involve a simple reduction of tech to be sold, rather that the term be dropped altogether

 

So this was rejected and we opted to fight until you dropped the tech deals. Then you returned with idea of a controlled demolition of our warchests because of the 'threat' you claim we posed (or maybe not you personally, maybe you spoke for someone else in RFI at the time). We rejected this too.

 

The alternatives presented from your side did not suggest to me that a meaningful peace would emerge by agreeing to them.


I believe you weren't even part of the tech deal talks. We have a good laugh over COBRA/TIE thinking they could get white peace so soon. xD

The threat you posed? No, that wasn't the reason. It was more the accepting war deserters/rogues and wanting peace for them as well, the TIE dishonoring it's treaty and all the other !@#$ yall pulled that historically and understandably would lead to harsher terms and/or a harder time making peace. It's the same reason we demanded the first terms and all the terms. If you guys had been more like SRA peace would have come much much easier. You're very lucky Kashmir had a treaty with Polar and after 5 months Polar finally convinced Oculus that yall had been beat on long enough. Yet EVEN THEN, COBRA's actions were bad enough that they still supported us demanding an admission of defeat from COBRA. To put that in perspective - Junka would do things that made things harsher on SNX at times but they got peace much sooner, much easier. They didn't get easier peace because SNX's enemies were nicer. They got it because they didn't do so much !@#$ to give them a reason to keep going as yall did with us. You guys were literally worse at making peace than Junka. 🤣

"The alternatives presented from your side did not suggest to me that a meaningful peace would emerge by agreeing to them."

Why not? 

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4 hours ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

 

I believe the alternative to tech deals that we presented was White Peace.  I remember this because you got awfully frustrated that my suggestion didn't involve a simple reduction of tech to be sold, rather that the term be dropped altogether

 

So this was rejected and we opted to fight until you dropped the tech deals. Then you returned with idea of a controlled demolition of our warchests because of the 'threat' you claim we posed (or maybe not you personally, maybe you spoke for someone else in RFI at the time). We rejected this too.

 

The alternatives presented from your side did not suggest to me that a meaningful peace would emerge by agreeing to them.

 

You were in no way related to peace talks until weeks after they had begun. There were other alternatives offered. I was obviously frustrated that you wouldn't reduce the tech deal terms, since by your own claim the Cobralition had intended to do exactly that but never sent the offer because of an internal breakdown of communications... I don't see why you're leaving that context out here.

 

White peace isn't an alternative term by its definition. 

 

1 hour ago, kerschbs said:

 

What was GATOs role in asking for reps?

 

Don't make me come home and run for AC. I might win.

 

Bring it on ;)

Edited by Tevron

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Everyone please excuse my ignorance: that conflict you're now discussing, with the reps and everything, how did it come to start?

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6 hours ago, Tevron said:

 

White peace isn't an alternative term by its definition. 

 

Johnny didn't say it was an alternative term, merely that white peace was offered as an alternative to the "goodwill" tech deals once pushed by your side.

Edited by Lex Quintus

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5 hours ago, jerdge said:

Everyone please excuse my ignorance: that conflict you're now discussing, with the reps and everything, how did it come to start?

 

The bad blood goes back to a conflict in which NpO attacked SNX (FTW Allies) and invited several other AA's to do the same.

 

Kashmir declared a total of 5 wars at the request of their soon-to-be allies.

FTW saw this and couldn't resist the chance to be heroic. In their heroism they attacked Kashmir (just Kash) and upon conclusion of that act of bravery, they proposed everyone involved stay out of the NpO-SNX war for as long as it continued (convenient for FTW, who otherwise, had no plans to defend their allies from everyone else hitting them).

 

COBRA stayed out of the SNX affair but countered FTW in defense of Kashmir and called out Canik for being a poser.

This led to years of tension between the two (COBRA/FTW) and eventually, multiple military engagements that saw the entry of allies on both sides.

 

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14 hours ago, Tevron said:

Keep changing history. 

 

Says the guy who demanded a 2,000 word fiction (portraying RFI as heroes and COBRAlition as goblins) as terms and actually wrote the damn thing himself when he couldn't get anyone else to (talk about cringy).

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Canik said:

We have a good laugh over COBRA/TIE thinking they could get white peace so soon. xD

 

I like how you're ignoring the fact that we were dragged into peace talks under the impression that GATO would be couped and Legion would be countered.

Sure, white peace was something we wanted, but not right away and it was certainly not yours to grant on your own since you're ultimately just a puppet wearing fur.

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9 hours ago, Tevron said:

Cobralition had intended to do exactly that but never sent the offer because of an internal breakdown of communications... I don't see why you're leaving that context out here.

 

We sent several alternative offers, including a permanent move from Brown, but you insisted on reps because you guys love feeling like you have some leverage over Polar (at a distance).

Besides that, it was always just for show on our end while we waited for promises to be kept.

Once those promises began to seem more like wishful thinking, we broke it off and decided to reopen negotiations at a later time and with more genuine intentions.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Canik said:


I believe you weren't even part of the tech deal talks. We have a good laugh over COBRA/TIE thinking they could get white peace so soon. xD

The threat you posed? No, that wasn't the reason. It was more the accepting war deserters/rogues and wanting peace for them as well, the TIE dishonoring it's treaty and all the other !@#$ yall pulled that historically and understandably would lead to harsher terms and/or a harder time making peace. It's the same reason we demanded the first terms and all the terms. If you guys had been more like SRA peace would have come much much easier. You're very lucky Kashmir had a treaty with Polar and after 5 months Polar finally convinced Oculus that yall had been beat on long enough. Yet EVEN THEN, COBRA's actions were bad enough that they still supported us demanding an admission of defeat from COBRA. To put that in perspective - Junka would do things that made things harsher on SNX at times but they got peace much sooner, much easier. They didn't get easier peace because SNX's enemies were nicer. They got it because they didn't do so much !@#$ to give them a reason to keep going as yall did with us. You guys were literally worse at making peace than Junka. 🤣

"The alternatives presented from your side did not suggest to me that a meaningful peace would emerge by agreeing to them."

Why not? 

 

Regarding the threat we presented to you: I don't think Tevron would appreciate me log dumping private conversations that clearly indicated this sentiment from RFI, so I will refrain from doing so :) (Alternatively if it wasn't due to the threat we presented; you could enlighten us all on why you asked for a controlled demolition of our warchests?)

 

Regarding you demanding apologies: You don't demand an apology if you want it to mean anything. If someone is genuinely repentant they will apologise of their own accord. Building them into peace talks as a means of humiliating your opponent? Doesn't exactly foster the "goodwill" I was hearing so much about you guys wanting to generate.

 

Maybe we are lucky that Kashmir has a tie to Polar, they fortunately had the ear of someone with a bit more sense than yourselves. I would imagine we were lucky in the same way that RFI are lucky that Legion are tied to Polar. That is probably why your coalition partners got so irritated when Kashmir ended up engaging someone other than Legion; Legion were seemingly allowed to hit Kashmir with impunity, the rest of you however.....

 

Maybe you're lucky that Polar only decided to lean on people with actual influence to get you to drop your ridiculous surrender terms and nothing more. After-all, firepower was allegedly offered to both Kashmir and Legion.

 

Regarding the "Alternatives" - They did not engender goodwill or meaningful post-war resolution because:

a) The tech deals were forced, there was no economic benefit to us really, it would be more apt to refer to us as "tech slaves" wherein you gave us enough money to buy your tech and enough left over to buy a shred of infra and severely cripple our rebuilding potential.

b) They required us having to constantly engage comms with you to arrange these deals post-war; when the war ended I wanted to be able to cease diplomatic relations with yourselves, not drag them out even further. It would have fostered even more resentment between our two coalitions.

 

The controlled demolition of our warchests? You think that leads to a meaningful peace? That's just spiteful.

 

We got our peace, and we didn't have to pay you with anything other than words. I'm good with that.

 

9 hours ago, Tevron said:

 

You were in no way related to peace talks until weeks after they had begun. There were other alternatives offered. I was obviously frustrated that you wouldn't reduce the tech deal terms, since by your own claim the Cobralition had intended to do exactly that but never sent the offer because of an internal breakdown of communications... I don't see why you're leaving that context out here.

 

White peace isn't an alternative term by its definition. 

 

 

Bring it on ;)

 

Oh Tevron, you know we both spoke at length about this. Is it revisionism time already?

 

Agreed, I was not related to the peace talks directly until they had begun, but I did have an input on the coalition dialogue before I was put in charge of negotiating the peace on behalf of Cobralition. (Meritocracy > Bureaucracy 😛)

 

Sure, we discussed the possibility of a reduced amount (as we also discussed the viability of all the terms presented to us) and there was indeed a breakdown in comms in communicating that. On the whole however, none of us wanted to agree to any sort of reduction short of an entire reduction, as a result we decided against countering with a reduction. They were not "tech deals" that you presented as far as we were concerned. They were reparations designed to hamper economic prosperity by enslaving our aid slots, there was no "goodwill" to be generated from agreeing to such terms so we rejected them. You reduced the amount from 75,000 to 70,000 at one point -which quite frankly was insulting- and if that was the level of reduction you were expecting, I felt there was ultimately no point presenting you with a reduced amount which you would actually accept so we decided to aim for what we actually wanted; White Peace. We knew you wouldn't agree to it, but we also sure as hell weren't going to agree to shipping you 70,000 technology, or change TIE's AA name to "X-Wing", or allow you to demolish our warchests, or write you a 1,000 word ballad depicting Cobralition as Goblins and you as mighty heros (and come on, what kind of heroes get their opponents to write about their valiant triumph against some goblins?)

 

It was quite funny tbh, the amount of times you called me a poor negotiator because I wouldn't present a figure as a counter-offer. Yet here we are today at peace and we're not shipping you tech at a rate of 6/200 or whatever the rate posited was (I know it certainly wasn't a fair one, I would need to check logs) Even you acknowledged that my decision to not present you with a reduction made sense from a negotiator's position in light of the communication-breakdown.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Johnny Apocalypse
ungodly amount of typos

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21 minutes ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

Sure, we discussed the possibility of a reduced amount (as we also discussed the viability of all the terms presented to us) and there was indeed a breakdown in comms in communicating that. On the whole however, none of us wanted to agree to any sort of reduction short of an entire reduction, as a result we decided against countering with a reduction. They were not "tech deals" that you presented as far as we were concerned. They were reparations designed to hamper economic prosperity by enslaving our aid slots, there was no "goodwill" to be generated from agreeing to such terms so we rejected them. You reduced the amount from 75,000 to 70,000 at one point -which quite frankly was insulting- and if that was the level of reduction you were expecting, I felt there was ultimately no point presenting you with a reduced amount which you would actually accept so we decided to aim for what we actually wanted; White Peace. We knew you wouldn't agree to it, but we also sure as hell weren't going to agree to shipping you 70,000 technology, or change TIE's AA name to "X-Wing", or allow you to demolish our warchests, or write you a 1,000 word ballad depicting Cobralition as Goblins and you as mighty heros (and come on, what kind of heroes get their opponents to write about their valiant triumph against some goblins?)

 

You are continuing to distort facts. We took off over half of our initial terms and reduced the tech deals when your buddies had offered nothing except white peace. I also told you many many times that the tech deals were an alternative that we had found unsatisfactory and that you could easily replace with something else. Have some good faith, you're not GK. Maybe you should go re-read logs. Revisionist I am not.

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1 minute ago, Tevron said:

 

You are continuing to distort facts. We took off over half of our initial terms and reduced the tech deals when your buddies had offered nothing except white peace. I also told you many many times that the tech deals were an alternative that we had found unsatisfactory and that you could easily replace with something else. Have some good faith, you're not GK. Maybe you should go re-read logs. Revisionist I am not.

 

You removed the apologies, the joke name changes and the ballad singing of your triumphs but the tech 'deals' remained. Eventually you came to your senses and dropped them. We then met in the middle with an admission of defeat in lieu of white peace.

 

I'm not entirely sure of the point of debating this. The hatchet is buried, no?

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2 hours ago, General Kanabis said:

The bad blood goes back to a conflict in which NpO attacked SNX (FTW Allies) and invited several other AA's to do the same.

 

Kashmir declared a total of 5 wars at the request of their soon-to-be allies.

FTW saw this and couldn't resist the chance to be heroic. In their heroism they attacked Kashmir (just Kash) and upon conclusion of that act of bravery, they proposed everyone involved stay out of the NpO-SNX war for as long as it continued (convenient for FTW, who otherwise, had no plans to defend their allies from everyone else hitting them).

 

COBRA stayed out of the SNX affair but countered FTW in defense of Kashmir and called out Canik for being a poser.

This led to years of tension between the two (COBRA/FTW) and eventually, multiple military engagements that saw the entry of allies on both sides.

Thank you.

 

On ballads and goblins, TBH I enjoy reading that stuff (am I a pervert?) although extorted artwork is rarely worth the effort. As such I'm happy that the term was dropped and that Tevron (I believe - thank you) wrote it himself nonetheless.

I remember seeing it somewhere relatively recently, it was all but bad.

 

Edited by jerdge
just one typo

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10 minutes ago, jerdge said:

Thank you.

 

On ballads and goblins, TBH I enjoy reading that stuff (am I a pervert?) although extorted artwork is rarely worth the effort. As such I'm happy that the term was dropped and that Tevron (I believe - thank you) wrote it himself nonetheless.

I remember seeing it somewhere relatively recently, it was all but bad.

 

 

I must admit I did find a bit odd that the victors wanted their opponents to write their history, but hey ho :psyduck:

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2 hours ago, Shimmer said:

Goodwill tech deals.

 

lol.

 

No, no, they were seriously couching this in terms of engendering post-war goodwill.

 

6/200, mighta been 6/300, can't remember. But really it's a question of degree, both of them 'orrible.

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On 9/2/2019 at 3:59 AM, Finster Baby said:

Getting old sucks.  Now get over here so I can smack you with my cane.

Why is it you continually open your mouth to prove you're a fool instead of keeping it shut and maybe people will only think it???


Oh that's right, you're smarter than all of us. What was I thinking? 

 

I have not passed through fire and death to bandy crooked words with a serving-man! Every night I command clan detachments in another realm, and I would not be here today if not for the rumor of war.

 

Polar remains the menace it has been since the old spider himself returned to plague the world with his machinations. It is a grave mistake to think that anything that happens involving Grub's friends and allies are mere coincidence. His cunning is matched only by his ruthlessness, and those pawns willing to serve him are quickly cast aside when no longer needed.

 

I have no care for politics or diplomacy; my calling is war. But unlike others, I desire just and honorable war. And no one can rightly claim that any war I called for or commanded was not righteous.

Edited by The Zigur

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12 hours ago, jerdge said:

Everyone please excuse my ignorance: that conflict you're now discussing, with the reps and everything, how did it come to start?


https://cybernations.fandom.com/wiki/FTW-Kashmir_War

https://cybernations.fandom.com/wiki/Interstellar_Wolf_with_Claws_War

https://cybernations.fandom.com/wiki/Snake_Eyes_War

Judge for yourself how this war got started

Edited by Smitty256

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27 minutes ago, Smitty256 said:

 

Yes Jerdge, the wiki is an impartially edited resource! ;)

 

Out of curiosity, who manages it?

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