Maelstrom Vortex Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Stewie said: Is that because you're trying to launch a potato into space on Twitch or are you a DragonKin on Tumblr? Everyone knows I do that web-show.. Dragonisian Space Program is best Space Program. As for Tumblr.. never touched it. Also.. my laser grids are best laser grids. They involve multi-gigawatt ground stations and interplanetary relays. Edited August 13, 2019 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Maelstrom Vortex said: Everyone knows I do that web-show.. Dragonisian Space Program is best Space Program. As for Tumblr.. never touched it. Also.. my laser grids are best laser grids. They involve multi-gigawatt ground stations and interplanetary relays. Launch said potato good sir. It's the only thing your nation can do on bob... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 Just now, Stewie said: Launch said potato good sir. It's the only thing your nation can do on bob... Just add a few green things to it. You're leaving out the crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 Just now, Maelstrom Vortex said: Just add a few green things to it. You're leaving out the crew. The New Potato order needs no crew. Gets fired into the atmosphere via the SpudCannon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 Just now, Stewie said: The New Potato order needs no crew. Gets fired into the atmosphere via the SpudCannon. That's it.. I am totally naming one of my unmanned probes New Potato Order after this masterpiece of technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysergide Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Maelstrom Vortex said: Everyone knows I do that web-show.. Dragonisian Space Program is best Space Program. As for Tumblr.. never touched it. Also.. my laser grids are best laser grids. They involve multi-gigawatt ground stations and interplanetary relays. Go outside and play with your toys now Sloth, you are starting to drool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 You need 1 million NS to launch the new potato order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Stewie said: You need 1 million NS to launch the new potato order Project is under development. I suspect I will even be able to cannon-launch it. Edited August 13, 2019 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerdge Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) On 8/13/2019 at 12:19 AM, Maelstrom Vortex said: Quote Fact is, the Cybernations's demise already happened. Technically everything has probably already happened.. but I digress into temporal mechanics far to deeply for this thread. If I get what you're alluding to: according to that body of theories the past and the future wouldn't actually make sense and there would be no time. "Everything would have already happened" would be a bad wording of it, though (although, convenient for you 😉) and it would be better to say that "neither of our posts would have meaning". All of that sounds cool, at least for some, however that body of theories would also necessarily imply that all you and me "ever" thought, did etc. wouldn't actually be anything we really thought, did etc. "simply" because neither of us would really exist as a sentient being making any decision. There wouldn't be decisions in the common sense, only events "in the real world" that are in a certain "geometric" relationship with events "in our brain(s)"... And our language (even the language of someone (literally) infinitely (literally infinitely, I'm not joking) better than me at talking about this stuff) would be actually totally inadequate to talk about this matter. Or of anything, from a "true" point of view, for that matter. However, physicists are humans too, and they too can go on a collective mass delusion. When they start sounding like drunken Buddhists it's probably just a sign that they ventured outside the boundaries of their field (really far outside them). Even the best physicists can also be totally oblivious of what physics (or science) "is" about. If we take "science" (and physics) to be more or less what gets done with what's generally accepted to fall under the expression "scientific method" - and here really lies some (semantic) irony - science is about understanding how stuff works, and theories are validated when experiments match prior predictions. lol... OK: we can remove the irony (but on it we lose on aesthetics, IMHO - OK it's frivolous) if we reword it by saying that science is the events "in our brain(s) and documents" that match other events in some specific "geometric" relationships "in the real world", and that explain how some "real world" events curiously match other "real world" events. Which last part, "translated", more or less reads that science is the theories that actually explain real events, and the theories upon which lie the experiments that provide meaningful results (in terms of the other real stuff we observe). I could even accept this description of science (but not of "reality"), but only at the condition that we agree and realize that nothing about said description says anything about "being" (meaning: the very being/existing of anything, and what "being/existing" would... be), or "sense/meaning", or "truth/true". Which is the same of saying that all of them - what is "being", what is "meaning", what is "true" (and in fact any expression like "what is...") - are outside the scope of science. Science's mission would not be about explaining reality (hence why I don't accept said description of reality) as it would be inherently inadequate to answer to any "what" and "why" -kind of question... but only to the "how" ones! Concluding, it may "be" that time is just the name we give to a property of our perceptions (it seems fitting, actually), but we don't know ("scientifically", and we can't - scientifically - know) what gives form to stuff. Saying that the common-sense meaning of time is fundamentally useless in physics (which I agree with), that it can't be reconciled with the physics we know (on this I pass, I have no idea, but I admit it can be like that, and I am very inclined to trust it is), doesn't explain in the slightest why events are the way they are, with the mutual relationship they have, and neither it explains how ever (and if) we could take advantage of the criticism of the laymen concept of time to actually better understand the relationships between events (translated: "travel in time"). This is natural once one accepts that science is not to answer to "why" kind of questions, and it leaves us with the doubt that the relationships between "events" are indeed explained (or rather, they can, maybe, be explained) with laws that - you guessed it - could be aptly named "Time". (And which could imply - why not? - that no, we won't travel in time, ever.) Back to your reply and to normal talk, no, the idea that "time is not (real)" doesn't support you in claiming that it still makes sense to aim towards your goals because time hasn't ended yet... (nonetheless: thanks for having opened that Pandora's Box, my respect for the reference) Edited August 13, 2019 by jerdge typos, details here and there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shimmer Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 So many pages. So few people commenting. May the pixels burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, jerdge said: If I get what you're alluding to: according to that body of theories ... Oh no, my theory isn't that time does not exist. My theory is that it's already processed. We are already on the course of inevitable motions that have already concluded at the moment the first second ticked. It's not predestination as we clearly make decisions, it's just all those decisions have already processed and we're simply perceiving them as we make them and they occur. The future has already happened. No event is truly random, we simply lack the understanding of our reality yet at a sufficient level to 100% accurately predict all outcomes. If I could interpret the data of your mind down to sub-atomic spin, I could tell you what your next post would be before this one was finished, just knowing the data I would be giving you as input. Time has already happened. It is a brick of procedural data that is infinitely expanding, we simply do not have the ability to read backwards.. yet... as we progress through states. We could travel time, but it requires the entire sum amount of energy to re-construct the universe at the point in time we want to travel to and such precise data that not even a single photon is in the wrong place and not a single particle has the wrong spin... Therefore, we will never time travel til we exceed the scope of our current universe in total sum energy state. The theory thus also implies that a true random number generator.. will never be possible.. ever. Edited August 14, 2019 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrilnys Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 Wow. This took an interesting turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerdge Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Maelstrom Vortex said: [SNIP] Your hint to your theory reminds me of a conversation I had with a math teacher well over thirty years ago. He didn't reconcile well the astronomical knowledge of the time with the natural evolution theory and the role of God as the one that created and that oversees humanity. I convinced him that the whole could be consistent because God could know - actually set - everything down to the position and speed of each subatomic particle, and that from the beginning of time, and calculate everything from that point onward... and thus be omniscient (and omnipotent). I was eleven years old or something like that, at the time I was a believer... Now too many years passed and that teacher died a lot of time ago. He was a good, old style man. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Kanabis Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 49 minutes ago, Maelstrom Vortex said: Oh no, my theory isn't that time does not exist. My theory is that it's already processed. We are already on the course of inevitable motions that have already concluded at the moment the first second ticked. It's not predestination as we clearly make decisions, it's just all those decisions have already processed and we're simply perceiving them as we make them and they occur. The future has already happened. No event is truly random, we simply lack the understanding of our reality yet at a sufficient level to 100% accurately predict all outcomes. If I could interpret the data of your mind down to sub-atomic spin, I could tell you what your next post would be before this one was finished, just knowing the data I would be giving you as input. Time has already happened. It is a brick of procedural data that is infinitely expanding, we simply do not have the ability to read backwards.. yet... as we progress through states. We could travel time, but it requires the entire sum amount of energy to re-construct the universe at the point in time we want to travel to and such precise data that not even a single photon is in the wrong place and not a single particle has the wrong spin... Therefore, we will never time travel til we exceed the scope of our current universe in total sum energy state. The theory thus also implies that a true random number generator.. will never be possible.. ever. Put down the Kurt Vonnegut and get back to what really matters- CN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroofTime55 Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 10 hours ago, Maelstrom Vortex said: Oh no, my theory isn't that time does not exist. My theory is that it's already processed. We are already on the course of inevitable motions that have already concluded at the moment the first second ticked. It's not predestination as we clearly make decisions, it's just all those decisions have already processed and we're simply perceiving them as we make them and they occur. The future has already happened. No event is truly random, we simply lack the understanding of our reality yet at a sufficient level to 100% accurately predict all outcomes. If I could interpret the data of your mind down to sub-atomic spin, I could tell you what your next post would be before this one was finished, just knowing the data I would be giving you as input. Time has already happened. It is a brick of procedural data that is infinitely expanding, we simply do not have the ability to read backwards.. yet... as we progress through states. We could travel time, but it requires the entire sum amount of energy to re-construct the universe at the point in time we want to travel to and such precise data that not even a single photon is in the wrong place and not a single particle has the wrong spin... Therefore, we will never time travel til we exceed the scope of our current universe in total sum energy state. The theory thus also implies that a true random number generator.. will never be possible.. ever. As wrong as you are on matters of this world, you also fail to understand the inherent probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerdge Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, HeroofTime55 said: As wrong as you are on matters of this world, you also fail to understand the inherent probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics. To easily void your objection MV would just have to limit himself to go down to a very small but adequately less microscopic scale. At that point the probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics that you mentioned, together with the law of large numbers, would help him to preemptively invalidate "any" objection about his model being inadequate because not formally informationally complete. I'll go out on a limb and also say that your objection is void also because quantum mechanics working doesn't in any way demonstrate that it's also "true", i.e. reality doesn't need to be really probabilistic for the theory to be valid (useful). This simply because science isn't about finding "true" models of reality, it's about explaining how stuff happens, as far and deep as we can (and with pride!) but also remembering that we don't know everything - and "probably" it's literally impossible to know everything. (I'd accept the objection that it's impossible to prove that my approach to the validity of science is correct, but only because I reject "truth" as a useful concept, thus I don't care if my approach is "true". I instead point out that my approach can't be used against itself, i.e. it's coherent, because I don't need to consider it true to use it to my advantage. I call this the Taoist Approach to Debates on Science and Truth, or TADST - long name I know.) Projecting our lack of knowledge as a feature of reality is a mistake. MV is fully justified in believing that it's theoretically possible to deterministically know reality (if this is what he believes, of course), without being labeled as irrational or ignorant or "wrong" or anti-scientific. Because science (and therefore physics) isn't about what reality is. Physics is not metaphysics (here etymology and semantics help and clarify, for once!) I for one don't believe that pondering about reality makes sense - I accept that reality is somewhere out there, but science (physics) is inadequate at investigating it and metaphysics is a joke - thus I'll spend my time in something else. Back again to normal conversation, MV's previous post instead displays a big contradiction where he says both that "it's not predestination as we clearly make decisions", and that, having enough information, he could predict my next post. The two things aren't compatible IMO. Edited August 14, 2019 by jerdge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, HeroofTime55 said: As wrong as you are on matters of this world, you also fail to understand the inherent probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics. I think you underestimate the scope of what I think reality entails. To be able to make such a judgement you must first understand my model. This statement indicates you do not. Everything that can happen, has happened. There is 100% probability of every potential occurring. There is an infinitesimally small probability, leaning towards impossibility that you as a human being will be able to encounter and experience all of it. In summary, you are on your only perceived branch of reality, which makes quantum probability a locally experienced phenomenon relative only to the constrained observer held within the closed system. While all potential outcomes to a given event occur.. you proceed forward through your universe.. only seeing one. Edited August 14, 2019 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroofTime55 Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 49 minutes ago, Maelstrom Vortex said: I think you underestimate the scope of what I think reality entails. To be able to make such a judgement you must first understand my model. This statement indicates you do not. Everything that can happen, has happened. There is 100% probability of every potential occurring. There is an infinitesimally small probability, leaning towards impossibility that you as a human being will be able to encounter and experience all of it. In summary, you are on your only perceived branch of reality, which makes quantum probability a locally experienced phenomenon relative only to the constrained observer held within the closed system. While all potential outcomes to a given event occur.. you proceed forward through your universe.. only seeing one. I, too, subscribe to the Many Worlds Interpretation, however it is still an act of probability as to which branch "you" are following, and therefore you cannot accurately predict how one will act in any given branch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, HeroofTime55 said: I, too, subscribe to the Many Worlds Interpretation, however it is still an act of probability as to which branch "you" are following, and therefore you cannot accurately predict how one will act in any given branch. Again, only because we lack information, as I said before.. a level of knowledge is required we have yet to obtain to do 100% accurate forecasting. I do not believe that what we perceive to be "variables", are variable at all, but that all possible outcomes are knowable with sufficient understanding of the underlying architecture of reality itself. If you can determine the outcome of every "random" event because they are not truly random, then omniscience is viable. It becomes mathematically deterministic and the whole of the universe becomes a calculated outcome. Well, many worlds is close, but the thinking I have is more of an "All worlds" interpretation. Also, if All worlds is true then both heaven and God exist. Re-think heaven as the reality with all outcomes that life would perceive as a positive result. Re-think God as the ultimate end-path of the evolution of life that has progressed to extra-universal power status, such a being who evolves beyond the realms of our reality and then is able to also assert or draw strength from other universes would have sufficient power to control everything, beginning to end, in a single "universe" or world path.. or even create their own. Bah, lets stop derailing this thread.. we can continue elsewhere if desired. Interesting fact: I hold these theories true both in this world and the higher ones. Edited August 14, 2019 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroofTime55 Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, Maelstrom Vortex said: Again, only because we lack information, as I said before.. a level of knowledge is required we have yet to obtain to do 100% accurate forecasting. I do not believe that what we perceive to be "variables", are variable at all, but that all possible outcomes are knowable with sufficient understanding of the underlying architecture of reality itself. If you can determine the outcome of every "random" event because they are not truly random, then omniscience is viable. It becomes mathematically deterministic and the whole of the universe becomes a calculated outcome. Well, many worlds is close, but the thinking I have is more of an "All worlds" interpretation. Also, if All worlds is true then both heaven and God exist. Re-think heaven as the reality with all outcomes that life would perceive as a positive result. Re-think God as the ultimate end-path of the evolution of life that has progressed to extra-universal power status, such a being who evolves beyond the realms of our reality and then is able to also assert or draw strength from other universes would have sufficient power to control everything, beginning to end, in a single "universe" or world path.. or even create their own. Bah, lets stop derailing this thread.. we can continue elsewhere if desired. Interesting fact: I hold these theories true both in this world and the higher ones. Deranged pseudo-scientific psychobabble is all that this is. I suppose this is the multiverse branch where you didn't cheat just because the mods said that you were allowed to do something that nobody else ever has or ever will be allowed to emulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 1 minute ago, HeroofTime55 said: Deranged pseudo-scientific psychobabble is all that this is. I suppose this is the multiverse branch where you didn't cheat just because the mods said that you were allowed to do something that nobody else ever has or ever will be allowed to emulate. Have you asked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 Next round can someone send me someone interesting... THANKS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 18 minutes ago, Stewie said: Next round can someone send me someone interesting... THANKS Incredible performance Stewie. Were all your targets active? Kind of question backdoor, eronux, and recommunist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caustic Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 You hit us, we didn't hit you. Your activity or lack thereof is your problem. If you can't muster up some active nations for us from a pool of 1400+ well then $%&@ you. Delete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Stewie said: Next round can someone send me someone interesting... THANKS Nope, we are all irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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