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Just now, DeathAdder said:

 

I mean, I don't really care if you speak against us.

 

It is actually quite hilarious watching you lot fumble over yourselves trying to get something to zing us with, only to inevitably fail miserably.

 

That's not a counterargument to anything I said.

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5 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

 

It doesn't matter whether it was legit or not, inflating any resource makes it have less tangible value in a market sense. 

 

What happens if a handful of individuals have godmode in a [ooc]first person shooter?[/ooc] Other competitive people don't bother and go somewhere else. When land mechanics came into full effect with clans like Umbrella and DBDC originally, high tier warfare inevitably became less competitive and NPO accelerated this decline by land farming.

 

So if ruling a noncompetitive clan world due to god-mode mechanics makes you feel good, congrats. But few people respect your gains or fear the results of speaking against you anymore.


You fail to address the fact that, despite the fact land values are important, they still represent only a fraction of our total might. I remember when the mantra was keep your land low to keep infra costs in control.

It's a shame Carnivore only goes back to 2012.. I have over 250 other wars before its cut off.

Current NPO record badge:
237759.png

An earlier cut off, but still I think misses chunks at or before Armageddon.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex
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Just now, Maelstrom Vortex said:


You raise a good point, but I still have a purpose here.. for now.. when I do not.. I will come play.

Care to hint what that purpose might be? The NPO dominates the ranks of the top nations, with few exceptions. Not even your allies have much of a presence there, so you couldn't be preparing to take them out. Your alliance seems content to live with the lone Doombird and I think the single GPA state is more than sufficiently covered. Tell me, what is this great purpose that keeps you from engaging in the fighting you say you love so much?

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Just now, The Zigur said:

 

That's not a counterargument to anything I said.

 

Because you didn't give anything worthy of a counter argument against.

 

If you really think any of us are going to spend any amount of time worrying about what you think, you'll be sadly disappointed.

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1 minute ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:


You fail to address the fact that, despite the fact land values are important, they still represent only a fraction of our total might. I remember when the mantra was keep your land low to keep infra costs in control.

 

The current meta is land and tech boosting nuclear firepower. Controlling a large reserve of both allows you to nuke opponents out of the super tier with one or two rounds of war. It's not a competitive clan scene anymore which is why I refer to god-mode mechanics, and it was the heart of my argument about ruling from a castle of dubious value.

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2 minutes ago, DeathAdder said:

 

Because you didn't give anything worthy of a counter argument against.

 

If you really think any of us are going to spend any amount of time worrying about what you think, you'll be sadly disappointed.

 

That's because political arguments have zero impact on the outcome of anything, unlike the CN of yesteryear. I'm just pointing out why your "accomplishments" are meaningless to any competitive [ooc]gamer[/ooc].

Edited by The Zigur
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17 minutes ago, Rebel Virginia said:

Care to hint what that purpose might be? The NPO dominates the ranks of the top nations, with few exceptions. Not even your allies have much of a presence there, so you couldn't be preparing to take them out. Your alliance seems content to live with the lone Doombird and I think the single GPA state is more than sufficiently covered. Tell me, what is this great purpose that keeps you from engaging in the fighting you say you love so much?


You're right RV, I haven't really evaluated my strategic position in a while but it is something worth discussing internally.. though I had hoped to at some point reach the vaulted #1 spot one day.. if only for a short time. I may as well already be there hadn't I? It is at the very least, something to give thought to. I have to decide whether I still want to go after that or not.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex
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13 minutes ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

 

Actually, I was seeing just how far exactly I'd have to fall to squash you.

 

.....

 

Pfa hahahahhah! No. Get some meat on you, then I'll come down to fight someone who isn't on the bottom rung. You really expect me to sacrifice over 90% of my net value SOLELY to fight you?

Land value isn't even a minor fraction of my total NS.

Also.... your thoughts on how much money someone would shove admin just to win.. considering the world we're in is just.. beyond paranoia.

No, I actually imagine the price wasn't all that high at this stage of the game, and we have had high rollers.  And NPO has had people who tattooed your flag on their arm.  The elements are all there.  And I don't know if I even can be mad at him for accepting, truth be told, he already didn't care so that isn't really a whole lot further.  Hell, might even be the only reason the lights are even still on.  But it absolutely speaks to the charade that is any sense of integrity in this game.

 

As for NS, I intentionally keep mine reduced.  I can travel up to meet you.  Actually willing to dump some of my warchest just to get in range.

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2 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

 

The current meta is land and tech boosting nuclear firepower. Controlling a large reserve of both allows you to nuke opponents out of the super tier with one or two rounds of war. It's not a competitive clan scene anymore which is why I refer to god-mode mechanics, and it was the heart of my argument about ruling from a castle of dubious value.

 

I don't recall us nuking anyone out of the top 250, despite having a clear opportunity to do so. Perhaps you're confusing us with DBDC of 2014 era?

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3 minutes ago, DeathAdder said:

 

I don't recall us nuking anyone out of the top 250, despite having a clear opportunity to do so. Perhaps you're confusing us with DBDC of 2014 era?

 

Having a monopoly on the use of force means you don't have to use it. Vladimir used to write about the circulation of the elite in the form of regular global wars, these dont happen anymore because the pond has stagnated. The competitive nature of CN is finished, save at the lower tiers where some still fight over the scraps.

Edited by The Zigur
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6 minutes ago, HeroofTime55 said:

No, I actually imagine the price wasn't all that high at this stage of the game, and we have had high rollers.  And NPO has had people who tattooed your flag on their arm.  The elements are all there.  And I don't know if I even can be mad at him for accepting, truth be told, he already didn't care so that isn't really a whole lot further.  Hell, might even be the only reason the lights are even still on.  But it absolutely speaks to the charade that is any sense of integrity in this game.

 

As for NS, I intentionally keep mine reduced.  I can travel up to meet you.  Actually willing to dump some of my warchest just to get in range.


Don't change your current set-up yet. I will think about it, but I have to seriously consider what I want to do at this point. As I revealed with RV, I hoped I might at least get a screen cap of myself at #1 some day like I did in Nationsgame/petram.

I get that off my CN bucket list and I would happily, and intentionally, come down the ladder wiping out everyone I can in my path that isn't someone I care for. 

Unlike certain other fallen angels though, I would be ready for it.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex
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6 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

 

Having a monopoly on the use of force means you don't have to use it. Vladimir used to write about the circulation of the elite in the form of regular global wars, these dont happen anymore because the pond has stagnated. The competitive nature of CN is finished, save at the lower tiers where some still fight over the scraps.

 

Global wars don't happen anymore because no one wants to lead the coalitions and deal with the headache they inevitably are. One side wants to bandwagon, the other side is just "Nah, not interested in organizing you anymore."

 

Your constant failure to understand that isn't going to change that is the reality of what has happened.

 

We're content competing in the Top 250 without utterly destroying another person's top 250 nation. All the other, non NPO super tiers seem to feel the same way.

 

Your asshurt that ~3 yrs ago, we gave a collections advantage to some of our most active nations also falls into the realm of us not caring.

Edited by DeathAdder
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1 minute ago, Sabcat said:

The rub is, there's nothing to fight for, scraps of otherwise.  War breaks the monotony of a stagnant game but no one wins them. 

 

I'm not really blaming NPO or anyone else for being intelligent. The fault is with the core mechanics that need a major overhaul if the competitive nature of this world were to return. Even then, I think most top tier nations have grown comfortable and lazy.

 

So Its not so much slamming NPO as it is slamming the arrogance of some who think their position merits great respect.

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3 minutes ago, DeathAdder said:

 

Global wars don't happen anymore because no one wants to lead the coalitions and deal with the headache they inevitably are. One side wants to bandwagon, the other side is just "Nah, not interested in organizing you anymore."

 

Your constant failure to understand that isn't going to change that is the reality of what has happened.

 

We're content competing in the Top 250 without utterly destroying another person's top 250 nation. All the other, non NPO super tiers seem to feel the same way.

 

Your asshurt that ~3 yrs ago, we gave a collections advantage to some of our most active nations also falls into the realm of us not caring.

 

What competition remains is no longer about coalition wars and politics, it's about managing the affairs of established nations. It's certainly success on your part, but it's not the empire-building that once defined CN.

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Fun fact folks.. my first goal on entering this game was to get to the top 100 of the NPO. 

I swear I didn't mean to over-shoot, it just happened. I wonder if they'd let me post my old NPO application in here, it's a hilarious read.

@The Zigur I do not think the outcome would have been that different with different math or mechanics. I applied the same methodology in the world of Petram/Nationsgame to the same effect and it had a much more complicated war environment.. we managed to hold that world pretty much  for its entire first run without contest.. not even losing a battle under my reign. There were two world wars and nations had to be constantly manned through the duration of week long battles.

We literally had to set up remote-desktop access and set an 8 hour shift based staffing system to ensure our victories.

If you look throughout the webs where there is an NPO presence, we tend to be dominant. I am telling you know.. it's culture. We trust each other and have incredibly tight bonds. I agree the foundations of our power are fractionally questionable in CN, but 95% of the causality of our dominance isn't the land you are concerned with. 


@Antiega Penny, Krolth.. we did amazing things together.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex
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Just now, The Zigur said:

 

What competition remains is no longer about coalition wars and politics, it's about managing the affairs of established nations. It's certainly success on your part, but it's not the empire-building that once defined CN.

 

Things change? I don't know what to tell you.

 

It would have been interesting to see an actual war for the top, I'll give you that-- the reality is, though, is that no one really feels the need to measure themselves against each other when they can instead focus on bettering their alliance and their members and themselves, instead of organizing the unruly plebeians while they froth at the mouth for someone to lead them into war.

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17 minutes ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:


Don't change your current set-up yet. I will think about it, but I have to seriously consider what I want to do at this point. As I revealed with RV, I hoped I might at least get a screen cap of myself at #1 some day like I did in Nationsgame/petram.

I get that off my CN bucket list and I would happily, and intentionally, come down the ladder wiping out everyone I can in my path that isn't someone I care for. 

Unlike certain other fallen angels though, I would be ready for it.

I'll see how long I care to stick around, knowing that cheaters got rubber stamped approval to cheat their way to the top.  There is a hilarious screencap of the mod team saying that it was allowed because of how "expensive" it was to have 0%/100% damage output wars to move land.  Clearly, it had no impact on the game, as the bulk of the top nations are there exclusively due to it being cleared.  Clearly, it was so costly as to not have a serious impact.  Lol.

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1 minute ago, DeathAdder said:

 

Things change? I don't know what to tell you.

 

It would have been interesting to see an actual war for the top, I'll give you that-- the reality is, though, is that no one really feels the need to measure themselves against each other when they can instead focus on bettering their alliance and their members and themselves, instead of organizing the unruly plebeians while they froth at the mouth for someone to lead them into war.


But Death adder... we're just vicious divisive war mongers.. we don't build things, that's GPA's venue.

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3 minutes ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:


But Death adder... we're just vicious divisive war mongers.. we don't build things, that's GPA's venue.

 

I mean, I argued against the 'other side of the web' giving up their top tiers. I thought it was a dumb, pointless move that was going to bog them down and force them to rely on other alliances for a top tier presence. Thereby making them subjects to those Alliance agendas.

 

I was the fail king of Sparta, though, so, what did I know? :awesome:

 

The best part of it is that for five, six years now, they've been dancing to the tune I predicted so long ago.

Edited by DeathAdder
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3 minutes ago, DeathAdder said:

 

Things change? I don't know what to tell you.

 

It would have been interesting to see an actual war for the top, I'll give you that-- the reality is, though, is that no one really feels the need to measure themselves against each other when they can instead focus on bettering their alliance and their members and themselves, instead of organizing the unruly plebeians while they froth at the mouth for someone to lead them into war.

 

The warmongerers and empire-builders have moved on to fight wars in other realms, for better or worse. I'd argue for the worse, since due to that and the mechanics there are no more chances for the old hegemonic revolutions that gave our efforts purpose and drove our ambitions to be king.

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2 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

 

The warmongerers and empire-builders have moved on to fight wars in other realms, for better or worse. I'd argue for the worse, since due to that and the mechanics there are no more chances for the old hegemonic revolutions that gave our efforts purpose and drove our ambitions to be king.

 

Not all, but most, yes.

 

Did you really expect anything different, Zigur? When was the last time we had a real update that actually 'changed the game' of either warfare or politics? The EMP?

 

Pacifica has done everything we wanted to do. We conquered the World, the World conquered NPO, we re-conquered the World.

 

NPO had a solid plan from day one. Naturally, Murphy showed up and tossed a wrench into the grand scheme of things for a while, but, eh.

 

I am content to watch you bicker among yourselves and cast blame. It is far more entertaining than 99.9% of the CBs ever posted.

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The only blame I've cast is on the mechanics. What I did say is that the high castle isn't made of gold. As someone who spends hours many nights fighting clan battles to be top ranked, cultivating top tier CN nations is monotonous at best, and certainly not a position to sneer at other people from.

Edited by The Zigur
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