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Disposal of Caustic Elements and Hazardous Materials

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I can't think of a time Mogar did anything remotely influential. All I can remember are opportunistic bandwaggons and weird Arianna Grande gifs.

 

Deathadder might be a boring bureaucrat, but he's helped maintain a hegemony. 

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40 minutes ago, DeathAdder said:

 

The decline, as shown by the charts, literally started in Oct-Nov of '06 and continued on a steady trend down... If it was player interaction, or a lack thereof, then it wouldn't have continued at a near steady pace. You would instead see rises and dips as wars broke out and ended.

 

Bob has literally been bleeding out nations nine to ten months after it began. Only during the first eight months did you have actual positive population gain.

 

Why would there be rises during wars? Nations didn't use to go into inactivity mode, they used to get deleted if you went inactive. Do you not remember the core game mechanics from that time in history?

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16 minutes ago, Lysergide said:

Why would there be rises during wars? Nations didn't use to go into inactivity mode, they used to get deleted if you went inactive. Do you not remember the core game mechanics from that time in history?

 

You just made the argument that it was the wars keeping people around. Therefore, the rise, would be from retaining players, as opposed to simply bleeding out more than even would join. Consistently.

 

That wasn't even the most ridiculous thing you said, either. Pretty sure that your assertion that Pacifica chased out ~10,000 people in 3 years takes that cake. Then another 10,000 by 2012...

 

You people are so far in denial that you never built a culture worth sustaining it's just... sad.

Edited by DeathAdder

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Nation Rulers get older, their priorities change, life gets in the way.  

 

Some of us do have cultures that are sustained outside of Bob...  In other planets...

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2 minutes ago, Stewie said:

Nation Rulers get older, their priorities change, life gets in the way.

 

Yes. It's a whole slew of different things that ultimately made people quit logging in.

 

The general consensus that OWF is/always has been a cesspool certainly didn't help for community retention, though.

 

5 minutes ago, Stewie said:

Some of us do have cultures that are sustained outside of Bob...  In other planets...

 

I think a lot of people do? It was the lack of effort to create it here that was the problem. The culture was literally the Hegemony vs. the underdog for as long as I could remember. Then the underdog(s) just gave up after MK fell.

 

It was just the remaining power players that kept things going after that, first among themselves, and then, by allying, and declaring war on the World. Those power players also just so happened to be the main fighting forces (excluding NPO) following Karma.

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1 hour ago, DeathAdder said:

 

Only during the first eight months did you have actual positive population gain.

 

And what happened after the first 8 months? EZI, PZI, viceroys, disbandments. All courtesy of one particular group.

Edited by Thrash

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7 hours ago, jerdge said:

Excuse me, I know that you probably didn't intend your comment to be dickish, but what you wrote is exactly the kind of crap that was used ages ago to try spin EZI policies so that the masses could more easily swallow them. Despite the scented varnish, they remained total crap.

A player isn't just an individual in the outside realm, it's someone with relationships and links in this world. Basically anyone that ever participated in CN (as it's meant to work) developed a social and political persona: effectively forcing them to hide their previous identity from all the friends and contacts they had is not fair. No other player should engage into that.

Moreover, claiming that people that don't go out of their way to scramble their Internet fingerprints in a game would or could deserve to be griefed by the enemies they had in any previous reincarnation is similarly silly. Players shouldn't be forced to do anything to be allowed to play the game, other players have no authority over them.

(Before the same old objections to my words are made, I clarify that, yes, it's wise not to give any personal details to strangers met on the internet; and yes, an alliance is justified in fighting against someone that rerolls to then again conspire against them. None of which is what I've been talking of.)

 

Either you have completely misunderstood what I wrote or you have quoted the wrong person. I was pointing out the ineffectiveness of a putatively effective measure of tracking individuals through their reincarnations. I made no remark in favour of or against EZI, about personalities, relationships, or anything else that you have mentioned, nor do I care to, because they are completely irrelevant to the specific segment of the post that I quoted.

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1 minute ago, Thrash said:

 

And what happened after the first 8 months? EZI, PZI, viceroys, disbandments.

 

And your stance actually is that chased out 10,000 players, or even a fraction of that?

 

If so, then my job is done here, because, you've put forward a self-defeating argument.

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Just now, DeathAdder said:

 

And your stance actually is that chased out 10,000 players, or even a fraction of that?

 

If so, then my job is done here, because, you've put forward a self-defeating argument.

 

You're the one saying it's been in a constant decline since that crap happened. Where are we threatening to do anything of the same, even if we could? Dude Karma happened for a reason that as was previously pointed it that was the only up-tick in nations. You just don't get it.

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22 minutes ago, Keysariyt Hanssen said:

Either you have completely misunderstood what I wrote or you have quoted the wrong person. I was pointing out the ineffectiveness of a putatively effective measure of tracking individuals through their reincarnations. I made no remark in favour of or against EZI, about personalities, relationships, or anything else that you have mentioned, nor do I care to, because they are completely irrelevant to the specific segment of the post that I quoted.

My bad, I tried to avoid too much a lengthy post and I also hadn't much time to reply, hence the misunderstanding.

Yes, your post was about a technicality and you were correct about it, and no, you weren't expressing your convictions about EZI.

It just happens that the technical stuff you wrote about was, once upon, used to fuel the spin effectively in defence of EZI, hence my comment.

I agree that your previous post, and  this one, are valid, and I agree with their literal meaning. I also continue to think that my comment was relevant and warranted, with the criticism being about the past distorted use of what you've been saying, and not about you or your perceived intentions/ideas on the matter.

My apology for the confusion.

 

Edited by jerdge

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2 minutes ago, Thrash said:

 

You're the one saying it's been in a constant decline since that crap happened. Where are we threatening to do anything of the same, even if we could? Dude Karma happened for a reason that as was previously pointed it that was the only up-tick in nations. You just don't get it.

 

At least from the graph I'm looking at, the largest uptick was in mid to late 2008, following the cap out in late 06.

 

At the 2009 indicator, you began seeing that tick from 2008 declining again...

 

You guys really don't know how to read a chart, do you?

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2 hours ago, The Zigur said:

I can't think of a time Mogar did anything remotely influential. All I can remember are opportunistic bandwaggons and weird Arianna Grande gifs.

Ok, mark this day down - I agree with Zigur about something. 

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1 hour ago, DeathAdder said:

 

You just made the argument that it was the wars keeping people around. Therefore, the rise, would be from retaining players, as opposed to simply bleeding out more than even would join. Consistently.

 

That wasn't even the most ridiculous thing you said, either. Pretty sure that your assertion that Pacifica chased out ~10,000 people in 3 years takes that cake. Then another 10,000 by 2012...

 

You people are so far in denial that you never built a culture worth sustaining it's just... sad.

 

Wars do keep people around, it keeps peoples activity current because they have something to do beside login, pay bills, collect taxes, and occasionally buy/sell tech. Rebuilding after a war is fairly easy, that has never been an issue. You keep quoting your graph, you obviously don't understand that the graph is only the data collected of the total nations in the game. People that lost their accounts due to inactivity would have no reason to come back, especially if they had a large amount of wonders already purchases as that takes time, time they don't want to invest back into the game. These forums and community forums have only ever had activity during war time, and you would always find people floundering in activity during the lulls of combat. That is where people were lost, you obviously aren't capable of looking at data and formulating the reasons on why people left. There were no mass exoduses during war minus times your alliance specifically forced people to leave, it has always been due to nothing happening that we see the downward trends. Ignoring the fact that previous game mechanics made it highly undesirable for people to return to this game is just idiocy on your part.

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1 minute ago, Lysergide said:

Wars do keep people around, it keeps peoples activity current because they have something to do beside login, pay bills, collect taxes, and occasionally buy/sell tech. Rebuilding after a war is fairly easy, that has never been an issue. You keep quoting your graph, you obviously don't understand that the graph is only the data collected of the total nations in the game. People that lost their accounts due to inactivity would have no reason to come back, especially if they had a large amount of wonders already purchases as that takes time, time they don't want to invest back into the game. These forums and community forums have only ever had activity during war time, and you would always find people floundering in activity during the lulls of combat. That is where people were lost, you obviously aren't capable of looking at data and formulating the reasons on why people left. There were no mass exoduses during war minus times your alliance specifically forced people to leave, it has always been due to nothing happening that we see the downward trends. Ignoring the fact that previous game mechanics made it highly undesirable for people to return to this game is just idiocy on your part.

 

Had I even claimed otherwise that mechanics aren't a good reason for people creating a nation, seeing how it's set up, and never logging again, it still wouldn't be as idiotic as claiming Pacifica chased 10,000+ nations out of the game, until Karma happened.

 

Even more idiotic is that assertion coupled with the fact that for the following 3 yrs post Karma, where MK positioned itself up top and saw some of the largest coalitions ever formed, again, another 10,000 players left.

 

I guess that was just from the EZI, viceroying et al. that MK did, too, though.

 

Oh wait.

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Just now, DeathAdder said:

 

Had I even claimed otherwise that mechanics aren't a good reason for people creating a nation, seeing how it's set up, and never logging again, it still wouldn't be as idiotic as claiming Pacifica chased 10,000+ nations out of the game, until Karma happened.

 

Even more idiotic is that assertion coupled with the fact that for the following 3 yrs post Karma, where MK positioned itself up top and saw some of the largest coalitions ever formed, again, another 10,000 players left.

 

I guess that was just from the EZI, viceroying et al. that MK did, too, though.

 

Oh wait.

 

Your arguments are largely strawmen arguments with no substance behind them. You can't deny facts stated to you, so you get hyperbolic. Keep drinking the kool-aid man, we all know you what you are the leader that failed Sparta and fled. How well is that community that you tried to build doing?

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8 minutes ago, DeathAdder said:

 

Had I even claimed otherwise that mechanics aren't a good reason for people creating a nation, seeing how it's set up, and never logging again, it still wouldn't be as idiotic as claiming Pacifica chased 10,000+ nations out of the game, until Karma happened.

 

Even more idiotic is that assertion coupled with the fact that for the following 3 yrs post Karma, where MK positioned itself up top and saw some of the largest coalitions ever formed, again, another 10,000 players left.

 

I guess that was just from the EZI, viceroying et al. that MK did, too, though.

 

Oh wait.

 Let's blame it on MK, an AA that doesn't even exist anymore. MK didn't make me quit, MK made me stand up. MK provided life to the world. They put forth a way better show than you guys. In the past I fought MK for their arrogance, now I have to fight NPO and ODN (who I didn't want to fight) for FTWs arrogance. Some people handle their own business and that earns them respect, others don't.

 

Edited by Thrash

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4 minutes ago, Lysergide said:

 

Your arguments are largely strawmen arguments with no substance behind them. You can't deny facts stated to you, so you get hyperbolic. Keep drinking the kool-aid man, we all know you what you are the leader that failed Sparta and fled. How well is that community that you tried to build doing?

 

It's okay, Lyser, you never could sustain a debate for long. Don't feel bad.

 

5 minutes ago, Thrash said:

 Let's blame it on MK, an AA that doesn't even exist anymore. MK didn't make me quit, MK made me stand up. They put forth a way better show than you guys.

 

Blaming AA's is what your side is doing though.

 

I blamed your lack of creating a community-wide culture to actually retain people.

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7 minutes ago, DeathAdder said:

 

It's okay, Lyser, you never could sustain a debate for long. Don't feel bad.

 

 

Sustain a debate? What debate? I presented facts, you went hyperbolic, in the ethics of a debate you would have already lost. I realize you aren't capable of having critical though, you never have been its why you can't formulate a response to everyone coming up with facts here about the decline in nations. Your responses are just "Can't you read a graph?" I am simply emulating your argument to show you how silly you are being. BUT WHAT ABOUT THE EVIL MUSHROOM KINGDOM! Where are the thousands of members NPO used to have? Clearly you have retained them with your superior "Community". 

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12 minutes ago, DeathAdder said:

I blamed your lack of creating a community-wide culture to actually retain people.

 

You mean a community that didn't suck up to the teet? To sit around and do nothing? Sure I could've approached NPO with a treaty deal, but what's the point? To further drive the nail in the coffin? Sorry, I'm not IRON, or NpO, or even NG for that matter, but NG have wised up. Hence why I am where I am now.

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2 minutes ago, Lysergide said:

 

Sustain a debate? What debate? I presented facts, you went hyperbolic, in the ethics of a debate you would have already lost. I realize you aren't capable of having critical though, you never have been its why you can't formulate a response to everyone coming up with facts here about the decline in nations. Your responses are just "Can't you read a graph?" I am simply emulating your argument to show you how silly you are being. BUT WHAT ABOUT THE EVIL MUSHROOM KINGDOM! Where are the thousands of members NPO used to have? Clearly you have retained them with your superior "Community". 

 

They've clearly retained more than you. Across all Worlds. :popcorn:

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5 minutes ago, Thrash said:

 

You mean a community that didn't suck up to the teet? To sit around and do nothing? Sure I could've approached NPO with a treaty deal, but what's the point? To further drive the nail in the coffin? Sorry, I'm not IRON, or NpO, or even NG for that matter, but NG have wised up. Hence why I am where I am now.

 

What makes you think we would've accepted a treaty from you?

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1 minute ago, DeathAdder said:

 

They've clearly retained more than you. Across all Worlds. :popcorn:

 

Some people do move on with their lives, because ya know they have a life outside of a silly game. Some people choose to continue to spend all of their time online. Last I checked GOONS is still by far a much larger community across numerous games than Pacifica will ever be, and even they left here because of the lack of interest due to no wars. Eventually you just gotta go outside man, can't sit inside all day.

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2 minutes ago, DeathAdder said:

 

What makes you think we would've accepted a treaty from you?

 

You've just proved my point 100%. Wonder when the silence order is coming down on you? It's amazing it's gone this long.

Edited by Thrash

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1 minute ago, DeathAdder said:

 

What makes you think we would've accepted a treaty from you?

 

You are aware that Invicta was at one time allied to NPO, and Sparta correct? So both alliances you have been in, have in fact found reason to ally them.

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Just now, Thrash said:

 

You've just proved my point 100%.

 

I mean, your years of !@#$%*ing on the forums and not doing anything certainly didn't help.

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