Notice to the New Pacific Order

[The Zigur]

4 minutes ago, DeathAdder said:

 

I already told you why you're being rolled. Criticizing the Hegemony had nothing to do with it, which you very well know.

 

You decided to both call for Roguery on Oculus, as well as back a rogue on Brown and got sanctioned for it on multiple color spheres. Then you actually went rogue when you joined an alliance at Permawar.

 

You are a liar. Harry was not a rogue, he minded his own business and was constantly harassed by Kashmir and other dim-witted brutes. More recently, he was attacked by polar, GATO and others for opposing the wrongful use of sanctions against people like me.

 

I didnt call for roguery against Oculus. I wrote the anarchist cookbook as a guide for neutrals and others you and your barbarian allies attack.

 

YOU target listed me, saying I would never have peace, so how in the world did I "go rogue."

Edited July 24, 2018 by The Zigur

[Tevron]

Quote

 More recently, he was attacked by polar, GATO and others for opposing the wrongful use of sanctions against people like me.

I hit him as a tech raid because he was a pissant who removed sanctions that I put in place, I tried to tell him that, but he had already blocked all people who disagreed with him on the brown team boards, so I couldn't PM him. Then in response to my attack he sanctioned me. THEN we attacked him in an official capacity, because he clearly didn't believe this "opposing wrongful sanctions" business. 

I remember a time when you actually were against military sanctions though, it was during the MI - Atlas war. Do you remember that? You were angry that they used sanctions in retaliation to conventional warfare. What exactly changed since then?

[The Zigur]

By the way, when you initiate aggression against neutrals and independents, whether GPA, SPATR, or anyone else, they are under absolutely no obligation to seek peace just because you beat them below a certain NS level. They are perfectly in the right to permawar your lower tiers until a peace is arranged that they find satisfactory.

Edited July 24, 2018 by The Zigur

[The Zigur]

3 minutes ago, Tevron said:

I hit him as a tech raid because he was a pissant who removed sanctions that I put in place, I tried to tell him that, but he had already blocked all people who disagreed with him on the brown team boards, so I couldn't PM him. Then in response to my attack he sanctioned me. THEN we attacked him in an official capacity, because he clearly didn't believe this "opposing wrongful sanctions" business. 

I remember a time when you actually were against military sanctions though, it was during the MI - Atlas war. Do you remember that? You were angry that they used sanctions in retaliation to conventional warfare. What exactly changed since then?

 

GATO crossed the line by sanctioning me wrongfully, when I wasn't a rogue. Harry simply responded to your bad sanctions, "tech raid" and your arranged attacks against himself and his voters by using sanctions in return.

[Tevron]

4 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

By the way, when you initiate aggression against neutrals and independents, whether GPA, SPATR, or anyone else, they are under absolutely no obligation to seek peace just because you beat them below a certain NS level. They are perfectly in the right to permawar your lower tiers until a peace is arranged that they find satisfactory.

Nobody has disagreed with that. In fact, DA said the war continues simply because they do not come to the table...?

[The Zigur]

3 minutes ago, Tevron said:

Nobody has disagreed with that. In fact, DA said the war continues simply because they do not come to the table...?

 

NPO refuses to let me have peace, and SPATR coalition leadership has indicated that they desire for me to be included in any peace agreement. I am totally fine personally being left out of an agreement, since I know even after a formal peace is reached, Deathadder and others will still stalk me. 

Edited July 24, 2018 by The Zigur

[Tevron]

1 minute ago, The Zigur said:

 

GATO crossed the line by sanctioning me wrongfully, when I wasn't a rogue. Harry simply responded to your bad sanctions, "tech raid" and your arranged attacks against himself and his voters by using sanctions in return.

we got a sanction request that you were a rogue. That seemed to be true at the time?
Didn't attack any of his voters, nor were any of his voters sanctioned UNTIL after that... Can't really change the order of events sorry XD

[Tevron]

2 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

 

NPO refuses to let me have peace, and SPATR coalition leadership has indicated that they desire for me to be included in any peace agreement. I am totally fine personally being left out of an agreement, since I know even after a formal peace is reached, Deathadder and others will still stalk me. 

But are they actually negotiating for peace...?

[The Zigur]

10 minutes ago, Tevron said:

we got a sanction request that you were a rogue. That seemed to be true at the time?
Didn't attack any of his voters, nor were any of his voters sanctioned UNTIL after that... Can't really change the order of events sorry XD

 

Yeah I know, it's alot more difficult to have integrity and investigate the validity of the sanction request. Integrity is too much to ask from most political "leaders" these days. Most of you people are just trying not to be attacked next.

Edited July 24, 2018 by The Zigur

[Tevron]

2 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

 

Yeah I know, it's alot more difficult to have integrity and investigate the validity of the sanction request. Integrity is too much to ask from most political "leaders" these days. Most of you people are just trying not to be attacked next.

I'm confused, they spoke to me in good faith, whereas you have not. I would think you would probably have to communicate with me if you wanted your sanction lifted, which you have not done....?

[The Zigur]

Just now, Tevron said:

I'm confused, they spoke to me in good faith, whereas you have not. I would think you would probably have to communicate with me if you wanted your sanction lifted, which you have not done....?

 

Did you ask my side of the story before sanctioning? Ofc not. It's much easier to not piss off the "bone-breaking" thug of Polar.

[Tevron]

1 minute ago, The Zigur said:

 

Did you ask my side of the story before sanctioning? Ofc not. It's much easier to not piss off the "bone-breaking" thug of Polar.

I think Umbrella actually levied the request, soooooo

Not 100% sure though :shrug:

And wait a minute, is the ball really in my court to get your sanction lifted? I really think not, considering your history with threatening alliances I'm in XD

Edited July 24, 2018 by Tevron

[The Zigur]

Just now, Tevron said:

I think Umbrella actually levied the request, soooooo

 

No, Terminator openly bragged that he would get me sanctioned on every color team, despite the fact I was in peacemode and didn't attack anyone.

[DeathAdder]

1 hour ago, The Zigur said:

 

You are a liar. Harry was not a rogue, he minded his own business and was constantly harassed by Kashmir and other dim-witted brutes. More recently, he was attacked by polar, GATO and others for opposing the wrongful use of sanctions against people like me.

 

I didnt call for roguery against Oculus. I wrote the anarchist cookbook as a guide for neutrals and others you and your barbarian allies attack.

 

YOU target listed me, saying I would never have peace, so how in the world did I "go rogue."

 

He was a rogue when he A. Removed sanctions placed by other senators without speaking to said senators and B. When he started placing his own Sanctions on individuals in 'retaliation'. You can sit here and E-lawyer all you want, but, you won't change that fact.

 

You actually did call for roguery on NpO, in their Imperial Decree thread, which is where your thread idea started.

 

You were target listed when you threatened Polar, a member of Oculus, and therefore, Oculus itself. I clearly stated that you would not worm your way out of receiving your due punishment this time. It isn't my fault that you still have PTSD from 2008 and everytime you get added to someone's attack list, you're suddenly PZI'd in your minuscule little mind.

Edited July 24, 2018 by DeathAdder

[The Zigur]

I've only stated I would attack people who attacked me first. Polar was reasonable and despite my indignation at their actions, both myself and Polar walked away peacefully. I am not like some of your allies who go around attacking people for no reason.

[Horus Lytton]

50 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

I've only stated I would attack people who attacked me first. Polar was reasonable and despite my indignation at their actions, both myself and Polar walked away peacefully. I am not like some of your allies who go around attacking people for no reason.

I'm pretty sure he said "threatened", not "attacked". Such a threat may warrant roguery by calling upon such attacks which may not be legitimate.

For your characterization, "Any excuse will serve a tyrant". You're invoking tyranny because of your hurt feelings to justify war.

[The Zigur]

49 minutes ago, Horus Lytton said:

I'm pretty sure he said "threatened", not "attacked". Such a threat may warrant roguery by calling upon such attacks which may not be legitimate.

For your characterization, "Any excuse will serve a tyrant". You're invoking tyranny because of your hurt feelings to justify war.

 

I don't have to justify engaging an alliance that target-lists and spies me, prevents me from economically playing the [ooc]game[/ooc], and states I will be attacked when I leave peacemode.

 

That is self defense, not roguery.

Edited July 24, 2018 by The Zigur

[Cortath]

4 hours ago, The Zigur said:

 

You are a liar. Harry was not a rogue, he minded his own business and was constantly harassed by Kashmir and other dim-witted brutes. More recently, he was attacked by polar, GATO and others for opposing the wrongful use of sanctions against people like me.

 

I didnt call for roguery against Oculus. I wrote the anarchist cookbook as a guide for neutrals and others you and your barbarian allies attack.

 

YOU target listed me, saying I would never have peace, so how in the world did I "go rogue."

 

"Barbarian"? *chuckles*

 

I always try to choose my words carefully. What is a barbarian? Stranger, from the original greek. But now it means something much more: uncivilized. Out in the wilderness. Beyond the rules and mores of organized society.

 

That is most decidedly what we are not. The purpose of Order is to give nations the freedom from the barbarity of the unaligned. My comrade Vladimir and I have been writing about this problem for well more than a decade. What is an alliance, if not freedom from the piracy of raiders? How can a nation trade, if it is to be attacked and sanctioned by whim? Trade and commerce is bred through Order: understanding the rules of the road; understanding what gets one sanctioned, and what does not.

 

There are few attacks that go more to the heart of what Francoism tries to achieve than that of a rogue. Ideas and policies, such as whom to sanction, must flow through the meritocratic bureaucracy that is alliance government and inter-alliance relations, not the whim of one nation. Who can predict whims? Not I, and not any man. But a Francoist can predict governance, for through the unification of sovereignty in a wise and meritocratic bureaucracy, we can understand the reasons of man.

[Lucius Optimus]

6 hours ago, The Zigur said:

 

You are a liar. Harry was not a rogue, he minded his own business and was constantly harassed by Kashmir and other dim-witted brutes.

 

Removal of sanctions is an act of war. Removing sanctions placed by legitimate governments is the act of a rogue. 

 

Sorry but if it walks like a rogue and talks (or doesn't in Harry's case) like a rogue it's a rogue. Claiming Kashmir "Harrassment" at that point is just whining. 

Edited July 25, 2018 by Lucius Optimus

[The Big Bad]

2 hours ago, The Zigur said:

 

I don't have to justify engaging an alliance that target-lists and spies me, prevents me from economically playing the [ooc]game[/ooc], and states I will be attacked when I leave peacemode.

 

That is self defense, not roguery.

 

That is what happens to rogues.  It is not as if you were some innocent nations sitting around minding your own business.  You can not brag about poking the bear then claim victim status when it eats you.  All of this is the result of your actions.  Notice this does not happen to anybody else but you.  Think on that.

[General Kanabis]

6 hours ago, The Zigur said:

Harry was not a rogue, he minded his own business 

 

The first thing he did upon gaining a Senate seat was to remove all sanctions placed on Brown.

 

That's the opposite of minding his own business.

 

 

 

[General Kanabis]

54 minutes ago, The Big Bad said:

You can not brag about poking the bear then claim victim status when it eats you.  

 

That's what he does best.

 

[DeathAdder]

9 hours ago, The Zigur said:

I've only stated I would attack people who attacked me first. Polar was reasonable and despite my indignation at their actions, both myself and Polar walked away peacefully. I am not like some of your allies who go around attacking people for no reason.

 

7 hours ago, The Zigur said:

 

I don't have to justify engaging an alliance that target-lists and spies me, prevents me from economically playing the [ooc]game[/ooc], and states I will be attacked when I leave peacemode.

 

That is self defense, not roguery.

 

Your preschool level narrative and actual attempts to justify your actions makes no difference to me. You can cry and hope for some savior to swoop out of the shadows to save you. Their fate, and yours, will be no different than the masses of others that have been laid to waste under me. Vladimir, Cortath, and countless others have wasted enough time trying to bring your underdeveloped little minds into the age of civilization and order. Instead of conforming to accepted standards the rest of the community adopted, you and your types of ilk have consistently resisted, tried your best to disrupt the economies and governments of Nations far better than you, and, every time, you failed miserably to grasp the concepts of Order and Civilization and why you consistently lose to them. Now? Your time has run out. I didn't come to  Glorious Pacifica to debate you or to witness the skills of rogues weaseling their way out of due punishment. I came to bleed you.

Edited July 25, 2018 by DeathAdder

[Horus Lytton]

13 hours ago, The Zigur said:

 

I don't have to justify engaging an alliance that target-lists and spies me, prevents me from economically playing the [ooc]game[/ooc], and states I will be attacked when I leave peacemode.

 

That is self defense, not roguery.

I can imagine non-intrusive spying is legitimate if they were monitoring you because of something you did. In that case, they could have punished you accordingly. That is legitimate.

 

You're trying to justify your transgressions by blaming another party, that you dont see that your roguery stems from that behavior. You're upset about what an alliance did, I get it. But that is one thing, against calling for attacks which is another.

 

Instead of griping about it, you could have requested a right to trial, if you have such right. Then maybe you can e-lawyer your way out of it.

 

But as such, instead of doing that, you've created a post to simply rant, and you may have been guilty of it despite your arguments. So far, it's not looking good for you, so there is no point in fighting. Just take the punches and roll with it.

[The Zigur]

19 hours ago, Cortath said:

 

"Barbarian"? *chuckles*

 

I always try to choose my words carefully. What is a barbarian? Stranger, from the original greek. But now it means something much more: uncivilized. Out in the wilderness. Beyond the rules and mores of organized society.

 

That is most decidedly what we are not. The purpose of Order is to give nations the freedom from the barbarity of the unaligned. My comrade Vladimir and I have been writing about this problem for well more than a decade. What is an alliance, if not freedom from the piracy of raiders? How can a nation trade, if it is to be attacked and sanctioned by whim? Trade and commerce is bred through Order: understanding the rules of the road; understanding what gets one sanctioned, and what does not.

 

There are few attacks that go more to the heart of what Francoism tries to achieve than that of a rogue. Ideas and policies, such as whom to sanction, must flow through the meritocratic bureaucracy that is alliance government and inter-alliance relations, not the whim of one nation. Who can predict whims? Not I, and not any man. But a Francoist can predict governance, for through the unification of sovereignty in a wise and meritocratic bureaucracy, we can understand the reasons of man.

 

When I spoke of barbarians, I did not speak of Pacifica. Pacifica's closest modern ally, Non Grata, was responsible for numerous raids and wars against peaceful alliances, and now rampages against your other allies in IRON.

 

I am 100% with you when it comes to fighting rogues. Last year I was fighting rogues for months at a time in defense of the Imperium. But sometimes men like Deathadder make enemies where there were none, and though my strife with Polar during their last war was settled diplomatically, Deathadder sought to interject himself into the issue (supposedly) a month after it had been resolved.

 

There is a point where Imperial Officers can make more problems than there were before, this was true in 2008 and it remains true today. You and I have both held the title of Emperor, though I one of lesser scale. And we see the big picture while our officers are caught up in more mundane, and sometimes, petty affairs.

 

Deathadder may be an efficient commander who has earned his post by merit. Is merit always accompanied by wisdom? I do not think that is so. Deathadder's orgiastic triumph over my fall, and overbearing desire for my submission, should be warning enough against that line of thinking.