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Imperial Decree - New Polar Order


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2 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

The real reason Pacifica's hegemony fell was because it's leadership decayed into tyranny. Ivan Moldavi was the rightful Emperor of Pacifica and the Imperial Officers should never have extorted Moo into deposing him. Once Moo proved triumphant, he was a pawn to the petty political machinations of his Imperial Officers, leading to pointless wars and EZI sentences until the rest of the hegemony had enough at the onset of the war against Ordo Verde.

 

That's one side of it, yes. What the pawns and rank and file of the AA's were sold. In reality, you just managed to temporarily remove power for far worse hegemonies to come along. Good job!

 

4 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

I may indeed be sad, pathetic and little, but I'd rather be the tragic hero than the victorious despot. Pissing people off is something I have always done, but that doesn't mean I have any plans to reroll necessarily. It may be more important for me to remain in this nation, even under siege, so I can distribute news, essays, and other content to arm the masses with knowledge. Knowledge has always been the greatest enemy of tyranny.

 

Unfortunately, you don't have any, but, I implore you to continue. I will gladly burn you, and anyone who follows you to nothing, should you choose to come out of hiding and do something except spread revisionist history as facts.

 

5 minutes ago, Neo Uruk said:

ok i think you might be thinking of like five years after 2008

 

''12-'13 was the height of the backstabbing across Bob, I won't dispute you there, but, I know several people who tend to agree with my view that it started in '08.

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5 minutes ago, DeathAdder said:

 

That's one side of it, yes. What the pawns and rank and file of the AA's were sold. In reality, you just managed to temporarily remove power for far worse hegemonies to come along. Good job!

 

Well, I certainly was no fan of what followed Karma. There is a reason I eventually surrendered and turned against Vox Populi. However, a newer evil does not justify the older evil, and while it may be impossible to make the world a perfect place, as individuals we can try to do our part in creating a better future.

 

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Unfortunately, you don't have any, but, I implore you to continue. I will gladly burn you, and anyone who follows you to nothing, should you choose to come out of hiding and do something except spread revisionist history as facts.

 

"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power." - V

 

 

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5 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

Well, I certainly was no fan of what followed Karma. There is a reason I eventually surrendered and turned against Vox Populi. However, a newer evil does not justify the older evil, and while it may be impossible to make the world a perfect place, as individuals we can try to do our part in creating a better future.

 

Evil is a matter of opinion. I would far rather live in a world of enforced order than rampant chaos, which is all you have ever represented Zigur. You may have fooled people like Grub (I doubt it) Daj, and others, but, you were always an undesirable who was merely one level above a rogue, in my eyes.

 

Your expulsion from the color spheres by the relevant senators was a long time coming, and you deserve what you got.

 

Since you aren't going to bother to answer my question I initially posed without your political rhetoric, I'm just going to go back to silently watching Grub and Term slap you down after I go to bed.

 

Good night!

 

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10 minutes ago, DeathAdder said:

Evil is a matter of opinion. I would far rather live in a world of enforced order than rampant chaos, which is all you have ever represented Zigur. You may have fooled people like Grub (I doubt it) Daj, and others, but, you were always an undesirable who was merely one level above a rogue, in my eyes.

 

Your expulsion from the color spheres by the relevant senators was a long time coming, and you deserve what you got.

 

If you were a true Francoist you would know that evil is not a matter of opinion at all. Much of Vladimir's work, including the Meaning of Freedom, was intended to break down the world according to dialectic materialism, producing objective truths about what is good and bad. Not a single instance in my history can be considered wrong because I have always followed this dialectic. Sometimes it means facing above average difficulties, such as today, but that is not a burden, it is duty. And for a man of honor, duty is more important than well-being.

 

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Since you aren't going to bother to answer my question I initially posed without your political rhetoric, I'm just going to go back to silently watching Grub and Term slap you down after I go to bed.

 


 

Good night!

 

 

My answer was here:

 

 

But, good night. I am always interested in discussion about history and philosophy, regardless of whether it is approved by the current so-called elite.

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2 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

regardless of whether it is approved by the current so-called elite.

 

Oh, it's still around. It's just no longer relevant.

 

Kind of like Vlad's Morality of War is still around, just no longer relevant because its entire talking points focus on the old standard of not being able to defend against a cruise missile. :popcorn:

 

Except Vlad actually believed what he was writing. The fact that you now sit here and insinuate you don't recognize the Emperor's power to invalidate irrelevant parts of the past from practiced doctrine, only shows you didn't believe any of those essays you wrote, as well as validates any Pacifican coming here to denounce you.

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3 minutes ago, DeathAdder said:

 

Oh, it's still around. It's just no longer relevant.

 

Kind of like Vlad's Morality of War is still around, just no longer relevant because its entire talking points focus on the old standard of not being able to defend against a cruise missile. :popcorn:

 

Except Vlad actually believed what he was writing. The fact that you now sit here and insinuate you don't recognize the Emperor's power to invalidate irrelevant parts of the past from practiced doctrine, only shows you didn't believe any of those essays you wrote, as well as validates any Pacifican coming here to denounce you.

 

Truth is not subject to the Emperor. The Emperor is subject to the Truth. I never had a problem discussing my ideology as an Emperor, so your Emperor is always welcome to descend from his throne and discuss political theory with the rest of us.

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10 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

 

Truth is not subject to the Emperor. The Emperor is subject to the Truth. I never had a problem discussing my ideology as an Emperor, so your Emperor is always welcome to descend from his throne and discuss political theory with the rest of us.

 

I'm sure that Frawley, who signed Oculus, will drop everything he's doing to run on the forums and discuss political/idealogical theory with an irrelevant. :rolleyes:

 

LoD, the current Emperor, doesn't have time for your nonsense as he has a successful Alliance to run.

 

You also wouldn't know truth if it came up and slapped you across the face, as has been diemonstrated for 19+ pages.

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5 minutes ago, DeathAdder said:

 

I'm sure that Frawley, who signed Oculus, will drop everything he's doing to run on the forums and discuss political/idealogical theory with an irrelevant. :rolleyes:

 

LoD, the current Emperor, doesn't have time for your nonsense as he has a successful Alliance to run.

 

You also wouldn't know truth if it came up and slapped you across the face, as has been diemonstrated for 19+ pages.

 

If your Emperor thinks there is anything more important than discussing and discovering the truth, then he is mistaken. There are Imperial Officers for the mundane stuff.

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2 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

 

If your Emperor thinks there is anything more important than discussing and discovering the truth, then he is mistaken. There are Imperial Officers for the mundane stuff.

 

I know. That's why I'm being relegated to having to respond in here to call out your idiocy.

 

Can't get much more mundane than this. :(

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1 minute ago, DeathAdder said:

 

I know. That's why I'm being relegated to having to respond in here to call out your idiocy.

 

Can't get much more mundane than this. :(

 

I would suggest that the discussion might be less mundane if instead of trying to craft attacks that will fail, you instead engage in a rational dialectic with me.

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9 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

 

I would suggest that the discussion might be less mundane if instead of trying to craft attacks that will fail, you instead engage in a rational dialectic with me.

 

You haven't been rational once in 19 pages. Just tonight, you've jumped from the stance of "You should respect me because I was a Pacifican long before you!" To "Vox Populi was the best thing that happened on Bob!" Except for betraying every promise made to the tools that followed them, such as you, for example, to "Despite formally declaring myself a Pacifican, I'll only listen to the decrees of the Emperor if I agree with them at the time!"

 

Fashion attacks against you? Child, you aren't good enough at this to warrant me fashioning attacks against you.

 

I'm sorry if the truth hurts your fragile ego, but get over it. You are a chronic liar. The only idealogy you believe in is choosing whatever fits the current political spin-job you're on. Do you know how many actual, standard bearing Pacificans were downright embarrassed every time you claimed to be a voice of Francoism, before you moved on to this producerist !@#$?

 

I've heard largely the same in regards to Polaris members, and their closest held idealogies that you tarnished with your presence and input under their name.

 

Why don't you try to actually be a leader on your own for a change and follow an idealogy you didn't borrow and half-ass from far more important figures than you can ever hope to be?

 

Only then will you earn the right to call yourself an Emperor. Until then, you're just a follower. As you always have been. And you will bow to the orders. Preferably after all your pixels and friends pixels are bled from you. Slowly.

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2 minutes ago, DeathAdder said:

 

You haven't been rational once in 19 pages. Just tonight, you've jumped from the stance of "You should respect me because I was a Pacifican long before you!" To "Vox Populi was the best thing that happened on Bob!" Except for betraying every promise made to the tools that followed them, such as you, for example, to "Despite formally declaring myself a Pacifican, I'll only listen to the decrees of the Emperor if I agree with them at the time!"

 

Why do you put things in quotes that I didn't say? Isn't that a strawman fallacy?

 



Fashion attacks against you? Child, you aren't good enough at this to warrant me fashioning attacks against you.

 

I'm sorry if the truth hurts your fragile ego, but get over it. You are a chronic liar. The only idealogy you believe in is choosing whatever fits the current political spin-job you're on. Do you know how many actual, standard bearing Pacificans were downright embarrassed every time you claimed to be a voice of Francoism, before you moved on to this producerist !@#$?

 

I've heard largely the same in regards to Polaris members, and their closest held idealogies that you tarnished with your presence and input under their name.

 

Why don't you try to actually be a leader on your own for a change and follow an idealogy you didn't borrow and half-ass from far more important figures than you can ever hope to be?

 

Why reinvent the wheel? I have no problem that in the elder age there were far sharper and more capable minds than my own. What disappoints me is instead of arguing my points in a legitimate, logical manner, you resort to contrived personal insults that I assume are meant to make me feel bad about myself.

 

Only then will you earn the right to call yourself an Emperor. Until then, you're just a follower. As you always have been. And you will bow to the orders. Preferably after all your pixels and friends pixels are bled from you. Slowly.

 

the-hidden-security-danger-dont-let-emai

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8 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

Why do you put things in quotes that I didn't say? Isn't that a strawman fallacy?

 

Because I didn't feel like going back on mobile and multi-quoting your drivel and editing out the irrelevant parts when it's far easier to cut out your political rhetoric and get to the meat and potatoes of what you're saying.

 

It isn't my fault that you don't bother, to spend the time to think up a legitimate response that can't be ripped completely apart in one or two sentences and easily summarized as was done above.

 

8 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

Why reinvent the wheel? I have no problem that in the elder age there were far sharper and more capable minds than my own. What disappoints me is instead of arguing my points in a legitimate, logical manner, you resort to contrived personal insults that I assume are meant to make me feel bad about myself.

 

You would actually have to matter to me, even a tiny bit, to make me personally insult you.

 

You also haven't had any points beyond dodging my question with more of your incorrect political rhetoric.

 

Isn't that the definition of demagogue?

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You're not getting to the meat and potatoes at all, you're mostly just slinging insults and spamming strawmen. Why don't you make a list of points or questions for me to address? This is how WalkerNinja approached Vladimir as a critic, and ended up writing The Sage and the Student.

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12 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

You're not getting to the meat and potatoes at all, you're mostly just slinging insults and spamming strawmen. Why don't you make a list of points or questions for me to address? This is how WalkerNinja approached Vladimir as a critic, and ended up writing The Sage and the Student.

 

Because none of your posts were interesting enough to give me questions.

 

The one question I did have,  you failed to answer at first and then proceeded to admit that you were actually just manipulated by Vox.

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29 minutes ago, DeathAdder said:

 

Because none of your posts were interesting enough to give me questions.

 

The one question I did have,  you failed to answer at first and then proceeded to admit that you were actually just manipulated by Vox.

 

So you are just here to generate a noise screen? As a memetic warfare specialist I am familiar with all hegemonic suppression tactics, so that is not new to me.

 

As to Vox, there was an internal struggle between different factions, and Starfox101 admitted later that he and Doitzel rigged the election against me. So it is a matter of Vox Populi failing the high standard myself, Al Kassad and others hoped to establish.

 

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34 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

 

So you are just here to generate a noise screen? As a memetic warfare specialist I am familiar with all hegemonic suppression tactics, so that is not new to me.

 

No. If I was just here to generate a noise screen, why would I have ignored responding to you for the last week or so? This is what I mean about needing to think before you type.

 

37 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

As to Vox, there was an internal struggle between different factions, and Starfox101 admitted later that he and Doitzel rigged the election against me. So it is a matter of Vox Populi failing the high standard myself, Al Kassad and others hoped to establish.

 

I'm just still amazed how something that failed so badly (not surprising, considering most demagogue-based movements end up being manipulated by a select few people while the rest mindlessly follow thinking it's righteous and just!) can still be praised by all of you kids whenever you try to take on the Orders before losing, that's all. Hence my question.

 

Democracies are terrible. That was the only lesson to be learned from membership with them.

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17 minutes ago, DeathAdder said:

I'm just still amazed how something that failed so badly (not surprising, considering most demagogue-based movements end up being manipulated by a select few people while the rest mindlessly follow thinking it's righteous and just!) can still be praised by all of you kids whenever you try to take on the Orders before losing, that's all. Hence my question.

 

Democracies are terrible. That was the only lesson to be learned from membership with them.

 

Electoral democracies are generally inefficient, however bear in mind the NPO and other similar alliances were intended to be autocratic democracies, meaning an Emperor as philosopher and warrior king voicing the will of the people. The Emperor is supposed to have a very public presence, not closeted away behind stuffy, overly conservative and bureaucratic officers.

 

In terms of Vox, bear in mind this was a group initially founded by 28 well known political dissidents and activists, many of whom were EZI'd in prior wars. If you take 28 people from a political prison, not necessarily all of them will be good people. There was alot of internal debate and argument over what direction Vox should go, people like myself and ex-Pacifican Al Kassad were the more ideological voices, while others were more focused on theatrics without a defined objective. The latter group won out.

 

Vox declining however doesnt wipe out the success of the original project, which was to voice popular opposition against a tyrannical hegemony.

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3 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

Electoral democracies are generally inefficient, however bear in mind the NPO and other similar alliances were intended to be autocratic democracies, meaning an Emperor as philosopher and warrior king voicing the will of the people. The Emperor is supposed to have a very public presence, not closeted away behind stuffy, overly conservative and bureaucratic officers

 

Why should the Emperor of today's Order even bother, though? This topic is literally the most active topic in OWRP > AA.

 

Obviously the days of relevant ideological discussion died, got buried, and decayed years ago. It isn't Pacifica's mandate to keep your Alliances alive and functioning. Our debate and ideology stays in house. Maybe if you had learned to control yourself better, you would've continued to be welcomed and allowed to partake, but, you didn't and now no real Alliance of any worth will take you in.

 

Bottom line: talk !@#$, get hit. That applies in most situations, but you've somehow managed to elude that little fact of life.

 

That's why even career Order haters are cheering on your rolling.

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1 minute ago, DeathAdder said:

 

Why should the Emperor of today's Order even bother, though? This topic is literally the most active topic in OWRP > AA.

 

Obviously the days of relevant ideological discussion died, got buried, and decayed years ago. It isn't Pacifica's mandate to keep your Alliances alive and functioning. Our debate and ideology stays in house. Maybe if you had learned to control yourself better, you would've continued to be welcomed and allowed to partake, but, you didn't and now no real Alliance of any worth will take you in.

 

Bottom line: talk !@#$, get hit. That applies in most situations, but you've somehow managed to elude that little fact of life.

 

That's why even career Order haters are cheering on your rolling.

 

"Why should they bother" is a fundamental sign of decay within the current hegemony. Every government office, from recruiter to Emperor, regardless of alliance, is a position of responsibility and duty. Duty is derived from Truth. If you do not ponder the truth, how can you perform your duty?

 

To "not bother" is to surrender to entropy, to accept that decline is inevitable, and ultimately, to die. "Inactivity is Death." 

 

I am tempted every day to just walk away from this existence. However, someone must be the New Man, and that means enduring every hardship when my discovery of truth defines my duty.

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8 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

 

"Why should they bother" is a fundamental sign of decay within the current hegemony. Every government office, from recruiter to Emperor, regardless of alliance, is a position of responsibility and duty. Duty is derived from Truth. If you do not ponder the truth, how can you perform your duty?

 

To "not bother" is to surrender to entropy, to accept that decline is inevitable, and ultimately, to die. "Inactivity is Death." 

 

I am tempted every day to just walk away from this existence. However, someone must be the New Man, and that means enduring every hardship when my discovery of truth defines my duty.

 

If pulling our political discussions and ideology off the OWF and onto member-only sections destroyed public discourse, then, perhaps it is the sign of the decay of everyone else and being unable to do anything without the Order there leading the way.

 

Either we're the voice of Political and ideological reasoning, or, we're evil. You need to get your story straight, or, better yet, hire someone to create an account and post for you because you really suck at this.

 

2 minutes ago, Alexio15 said:

Shame on you DeathAdder I thought you was better then that. :P

 

I know. :( They wouldn't let me retire and be an irrelevant rank and file again. 

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The problem with closeting away ideology is that you create an echo chamber. If control of the ideology is in the hands of the elite, they will deliberately or subconsciously suppress ideas that are contradictory to their interests.

 

The ideology of Vladimirist-Francoism is an inheritance of the whole world, and was many times followed or adapted by non-NPOers. For the ideology to truly evolve, there needs to be dialectic from all corners of the political world, because everyone has a different perspective of reality. 

 

The point of a good materialist ideology is not to try to control people like a cult. A good ideology is about discerning reality, and it can't do that if the perpetual dialectic is stiffled by authority.

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4 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

The problem with closeting away ideology is that you create an echo chamber. If control of the ideology is in the hands of the elite, they will deliberately or subconsciously suppress ideas that are contradictory to their interests.

 

The ideology of Francoism and Vladimir is an inheritance of the whole world, and was many times followed or adapted by non-NPOers. For the ideology to truly evolve, there needs to be dialectic from all corners of the political world, because everyone has a different perspective of reality. 

 

The point of a good materialist ideology is not to try to control people like a cult. A good ideology is about discerning reality, and it can't do that if the perpetual dialectic is stiffled by authority.

 

The problem is, though, your interests don't matter to NPO. Or to Oculus. You're all micros, you're all irrelevant, and you all failed to stand the test of time without crumbling into former shells of what you once were, so hung up on that past, that none of you can come together long enough to do anything tangible or even remotely effective.

 

You specifically never did really do anything except find different ways to parrot other individuals, so, perhaps, because of that, you're feeling the most lost.

 

Meanwhile, Pacifica has become larger than it has ever been on Bob, and, indeed, the largest Alliance by NS to date.

 

We still have the best economic and tech dealer programs. the best Academy, the best information available on the mechanics of Bob, and, we continue to improve ourselves on a daily basis while the rest of you whither and die. Clearly the only ones being hurt by our absence of participation in your public nonsense is you?

 

Maybe 1-2 individuals who don't even have the balls to openly speak out and hide behind identity concealment. It doesn't matter. One or 1,000...

 

You'll all die, Pacifica will prevail.

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