Resignation and Ultimatum from the Imperium

[King Conrad]

You mean how Caesar used swords and fought against the legal authority in the Republic to name himself dictator? Thank you for proving my point. It doesn't matter in the end. The victor will always paint themselves as just and righteous and civilized, and the defeated will always be portrayed as unworthy, deficient, a menace to be crushed. Unfortunately for you, your constant whining is public record, so you won't be afforded even that small dignity. War is not glamourous. It has no glory. It's messy, and the belligerents will win however they must.

 

A small history lesson: the 'barbarians' won in the end. You're speaking their language.

 

Now let me use a clip of my own to explain Tywin's nonsensical ranting about barbarians, mobs, etc. in the context of war (Tywin in the analogy of this video is the crazy lady who breastfeeds a ten year old):

 

 

But you know how this goes. You just pretend honour matters when things go against you.

[The Zigur]

4 minutes ago, King Conrad said:

You mean how Caesar used swords and fought against the legal authority in the Republic to name himself dictator? Thank you for proving my point. It doesn't matter in the end. The victor will always paint themselves as just and righteous and civilized, and the defeated will always be portrayed as unworthy, deficient, a menace to be crushed. Unfortunately for you, your constant whining is public record, so you won't be afforded even that small dignity. War is not glamourous. It has no glory. It's messy, and the belligerents will win however they must.

 

A small history lesson: the 'barbarians' won in the end. You're speaking their language.

 

But you know how this goes. You just pretend honour matters when things go against you.

 

Except that I used specific examples of Banned's own behavior of hopping across AAs and supporting/fighting rogue wars to advance his agenda of destruction. Can you cite where I have done anything nearly as controversial (aside from saying things barbarians don't like)?

 

If you don't have any examples, that would indicate that one side is indeed morally superior to the other. Before you dismiss the Moral Law, perhaps you should read the Art of War.

 

5,6. The Moral Law causes the people to be in complete accord with their ruler, so that they will follow him regardless of their lives, undismayed by any danger.

Edited August 26, 2017 by Immortan Junka

[wes the wise]

Best wishes to my old pals in SNX.   

[Neo Uruk]

Hey, dip!@#$. 

 

We don't believe you; you need more people.

[Williambonney]

How Junka sees his campaign:

 

How it ends: 

 

[AlmightyGrub]

 

[Keres]

2 hours ago, Immortan Junka said:

My record has been attacked by this crowd. But what of the "Blood God?"

 

https://cybernations.lyricalz.com/nation/520285

 

On 29JUN, four days after ISX signed NpO, Banned left SLAP to join RIA, and soon after sent war aid to the rogue Khan who declared his intent to exterminate our lower tier.

On 10JULY, a week after returning to SLAP, he joined Apocalypse Meow to further instigate war against the Imperium. 

On 25JUL, he joined the "Supernova X" AA, and begun a rogue war against Gerald Tarmini, and threatening eternal war against ISX.

On 30JUL, two days after Polar joined Oculus, Banned fled to Umbrella.

On 19AUG, Polar informs ISX of 72 hour cancellation notice.

On 20AUG, Banned returns to SLAP.

On 22AUG, Polar announces cancellation of ISX ODoAP. Within hours, SLAP begins the final assault against the Imperium. This coincides with [OOC]Banned's birthday.[/OOC]

 

It is up to the free men of the Imperium to defend our lands against the invasion of an erratic and dangerous tyrant, though we stand alone.

 

 

 

I knew someone like you would like a !@#$e band like Sabaton -.- at least link to something good... Saving the thread with non-crap metal

 

 

Fitting too, The end of all lies... tearing dictators apart...

Edited August 27, 2017 by Keres

[Dre4mwe4ver]

10 hours ago, Banned said:

Aww thanks princess.  I think your AA is outdated.

In game or on forum? Both?

[Banned]

5 hours ago, Immortan Junka said:

My record has been attacked by this crowd. But what of the "Blood God?"

 

https://cybernations.lyricalz.com/nation/520285

 

On 29JUN, four days after ISX signed NpO, Banned left SLAP to join RIA, and soon after sent war aid to the rogue Khan who declared his intent to exterminate our lower tier.

On 10JULY, a week after returning to SLAP, he joined Apocalypse Meow to further instigate war against the Imperium. 

On 25JUL, he joined the "Supernova X" AA, and begun a rogue war against Gerald Tarmini, and threatening eternal war against ISX.

On 30JUL, two days after Polar joined Oculus, Banned fled to Umbrella.

On 19AUG, Polar informs ISX of 72 hour cancellation notice.

On 20AUG, Banned returns to SLAP.

On 22AUG, Polar announces cancellation of ISX ODoAP. Within hours, SLAP begins the final assault against the Imperium. This coincides with [OOC]Banned's birthday.[/OOC]

 

It is up to the free men of the Imperium to defend our lands against the invasion of an erratic and dangerous tyrant, though we stand alone.

You mistake intent behind (some) of my actions. 

 

See, what you seem to fail to understand is that while my visit to RIA was entirely based on making you crap your pants (and having seen some of your postings around that time, I'd say it was rather effective) as was my visit to AM paired with my threats of selling down into range of your nations, as well as the hit on Gerald Tarmini.  However, my ceding control of SLAP was entirely legitimate, as was my seeking membership in Umbrella following that raid.  If there were any plans on Polar's part to take action against my nation for either aid to Khan, for my admittedly rogue attack on Gerald Tarmini, or even for my threats against you and your alliance, I was never made aware of of those intentions.  Nor did I have any reason to believe that such was Polaris' intent. 

 

Likewise, my return to SLAP had nothing to do with you.  My departure from Umbrella and return to SLAP and consequent reclaiming of Blood God status were done entirely for reasons that don't concern you, and were conveyed privately with those that they did concern.  Those concerned parties (SLAP and Umbrella) remain great friends and allies. 

 

What I really gather from all this droveling on though and time consumed constructing a timeline of events, is that it's not like I didn't make it obvious that one way or another, at one time or another, I was coming for you.  As consequence of your own actions, you made it significantly easier to do so, and with such great timing.  I won't attempt to manipulate and politic to pretend SLAP isn't the aggressor here, obviously we are.  And as Roal has been so kind to inform everybody, it's not the first time we've taken aggressive action against an alliance.  But even you don't condemn aggressive action.  You've hailed aggressive action in the past.  So for all the philosophy you claim to uphold, perhaps try being honest with yourself and admit that it isn't that you condemn aggressiveness, but that you despise such aggressiveness when the actions are taken against you.  It's ok to admit it.

[Williambonney]

12 minutes ago, Banned said:

So for all the philosophy you claim to uphold, perhaps try being honest with yourself and admit that it isn't that you condemn aggressiveness, but that you despise such aggressiveness when the actions are taken against you.  It's ok to admit it.

I think that describes just about everyone everywhere.  I would think that people would be mature enough to not only condemn unwarranted excessive aggressiveness but also not cheer for it.  But I know I'd just be lying to myself.

[The Zigur]

2 hours ago, Banned said:

You mistake intent behind (some) of my actions. 

 

See, what you seem to fail to understand is that while my visit to RIA was entirely based on making you crap your pants (and having seen some of your postings around that time, I'd say it was rather effective) as was my visit to AM paired with my threats of selling down into range of your nations, as well as the hit on Gerald Tarmini.  However, my ceding control of SLAP was entirely legitimate, as was my seeking membership in Umbrella following that raid.  If there were any plans on Polar's part to take action against my nation for either aid to Khan, for my admittedly rogue attack on Gerald Tarmini, or even for my threats against you and your alliance, I was never made aware of of those intentions.  Nor did I have any reason to believe that such was Polaris' intent. 

 

Likewise, my return to SLAP had nothing to do with you.  My departure from Umbrella and return to SLAP and consequent reclaiming of Blood God status were done entirely for reasons that don't concern you, and were conveyed privately with those that they did concern.  Those concerned parties (SLAP and Umbrella) remain great friends and allies. 

 

What I really gather from all this droveling on though and time consumed constructing a timeline of events, is that it's not like I didn't make it obvious that one way or another, at one time or another, I was coming for you.  As consequence of your own actions, you made it significantly easier to do so, and with such great timing.  I won't attempt to manipulate and politic to pretend SLAP isn't the aggressor here, obviously we are.  And as Roal has been so kind to inform everybody, it's not the first time we've taken aggressive action against an alliance.  But even you don't condemn aggressive action.  You've hailed aggressive action in the past.  So for all the philosophy you claim to uphold, perhaps try being honest with yourself and admit that it isn't that you condemn aggressiveness, but that you despise such aggressiveness when the actions are taken against you.  It's ok to admit it.

 

I feel that the paranoia within SLAP and other doomsphere remnants, that my resignation is some trick that will be revoked later on, is a projection of what your people have come to expect from your leadership. It is quite unprecedented for a major AA owner to hop around AAs so much, especially with the goal of instilling terror in a target population. 

 

My own threat in the OP to fight a permawar is simply copying what you yourself threatened against ISX during the course of our AM war.

 

It is good to take the effort to address this timeline of events though, cleary you understand it looks bad, and that's a good start at a time when people accuse me of being bad simply for speaking my opinion.

 

As to aggression, I have taken part in aggressive wars at certain points, but never without a concrete Casus Belli.

 

*Disorder War: NSO planned to attack Polar

*November Third: CRV24 was a traitor who collaborated with our enemies

 

These are the only aggressive wars I have fought in a decade of Cybernations. To suggest our individual patterns of aggression are equivalent is frankly nonsense, because I have always held myself to a high moral standard, demanding a solid CB focused on defending alliance interests. You have not, and support attacking people on a whim.

Edited August 27, 2017 by Immortan Junka

[AtlasXero]

Personally, I believe the arguments are dancing around the heart of the problem here. The battles between ISX and SLAP don't have clear footing. The ISX don't want a war, there hasn't been a DoW on either side. Just an ultimatum on both sides. I don't believe this ultimatum has harmed our alliance, as Gal is in the midst of peace talks with SLAP. That is the extent of the information I can bring to the table, I'd appreciate it if people would take the ultimatum with a grain of salt. Chances are that it won't need to come to fruition on either side.

8 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

I feel that the paranoia within SLAP and other doomsphere remnants, that my resignation being some trick, is a projection of what your people have come to expect from your leadership. It is quite unprecedented for a major AA owner to hop around AAs so much, especially with the goal of instilling terror in a target population. 

 

My own threat in the OP to fight a permawar is simply copying what you yourself threatened against ISX during the course of our AM war.

 

It is good to take the effort to address this timeline of events though, cleary you understand it looks bad, and that's a good start at a time when people accuse me of being bad simply for speaking my opinion.

 

As to aggression, I have taken part in aggressive wars at certain points, but never without a concrete Casus Belli.

 

*Disorder War: NSO planned to attack Polar

*November Third: CRV24 was a traitor who collaborated with our enemies

 

These are the only aggressive wars I have fought in a decade of Cybernations. To suggest our individual patterns of aggression are equivalent is frankly nonsense, because I have always held myself to a high moral standard, demanding a solid CB focused on defending alliance interests. You have not, and support attacking people on a whim.

You do have to admit he has a point.

[Serberus_I]

1 hour ago, Immortan Junka said:

These are the only aggressive wars I have fought in a decade of Cybernations. To suggest our individual patterns of aggression are equivalent is frankly nonsense, because I have always held myself to a high moral standard, demanding a solid CB focused on defending alliance interests. You have not, and support attacking people on a whim.

 

It's all perception and interpretation.

 

And all wars are aggressive...just saying. lol

[Jack Layton]

The point is that endless essays on fighting a "moral war", and how your made up ideology is righteous, and how all your enemies are "barbarians", are frankly all irrelevant. Anyone with a brain here knows that a military victory is practically impossible for SNX (and Junka has basically freely admitted this). And anyone with a brain should also realize that Junka's pontificating about how his war is "moral" isn't meant for the consumption of his aggressors (and as Banned freely admitted, it is us). We don't give a !@#$ about how immoral or unjustified he sees our attacks. If we did, we wouldn't have attacked in the first place. Rather, his essays and martyrdom posts are aimed at the spectators here. He knows military victory is impossible against us, so he is trying to win a "moral victory" in the public eye. Perhaps in the hopes that he can save face and forge a new relationship with a protector alliance (officially or not). Either one who will step in and enforce peace between the two sides, or better still, one that will militarily intervene against us. I can only imagine the endless posts in that event. There is only one problem with this strategy.

The very reasons we launched wars against SNX are the very same reasons why nobody, at least nobody with significant enough power to matter, will come to his aid right now. In a desperate attempt to convince Bob that these attacks are unjustified and precipitate foreign intervention, he even gave up his position as Emperor of SNX, while pretending that this would take away our actual reasons for war. But, again, anyone with a brain knows that his relationship with Galerion is analogous to that of Putin and Medvedev. With Galerion in charge and Junka still "advising" him, SNX will still continue down the same terrible path, executing the same terrible policies. Galerion is nothing but a mindless figurehead and the evidence is the fact that his presence here has been minimal while Junka is still allowed to bury SNX deeper into the hole they are currently in. It's a journey to the center of the Earth.

Junka's strategy of playing the victim in order to gain public sympathy and support is a crapshoot because the public is fresh out of sympathy. It's the reason why his allies have abandoned him. He suggests that his aggressors read The Art of War, yet he is losing massively on all fronts. Had he read that book and actually digested its contents, perhaps our positions would be reversed. It is insane hubris to attempt to give advice to the winning side when you are quite firmly losing. That insane hubris is the reason for these wars.

[Neo Uruk]

25 minutes ago, AtlasXero said:

You do have to admit he has a point.

yeah

 

if you don't know !@#$ about what actually happened

[Serberus_I]

1 hour ago, Jack Layton said:

Junka's strategy of playing the victim in order to gain public sympathy and support is a crapshoot because the public is fresh out of sympathy. It's the reason why his allies have abandoned him. He suggests that his aggressors read The Art of War, yet he is losing massively on all fronts. Had he read that book and actually digested its contents, perhaps our positions would be reversed. It is insane hubris to attempt to give advice to the winning side when you are quite firmly losing. That insane hubris is the reason for these wars.

 

You don't foster sympathy by making threats.

[Serberus_I]

1 hour ago, Jack Layton said:

Galerion is nothing but a mindless figurehead

 

Dance puppet, dance!

[Jack Layton]

2 minutes ago, Serberus_I said:

 

You don't foster sympathy by making threats.

 

That's precisely why it's so inept. He might have even fooled some people on our side had he not done that. But some symbolic transitions of power like giving Galerion AA ownership mean nothing if Junka continues to "advise" him. It will still be Junka's alliance, just through a mindless puppet.

[The Zigur]

19 minutes ago, Jack Layton said:

The point is that endless essays on fighting a "moral war", and how your made up ideology is righteous, and how all your enemies are "barbarians", are frankly all irrelevant. Anyone with a brain here knows that a military victory is practically impossible for SNX (and Junka has basically freely admitted this). And anyone with a brain should also realize that Junka's pontificating about how his war is "moral" isn't meant for the consumption of his aggressors (and as Banned freely admitted, it is us). We don't give a !@#$ about how immoral or unjustified he sees our attacks. If we did, we wouldn't have attacked in the first place. Rather, his essays and martyrdom posts are aimed at the spectators here. He knows military victory is impossible against us, so he is trying to win a "moral victory" in the public eye. Perhaps in the hopes that he can save face and forge a new relationship with a protector alliance (officially or not). Either one who will step in and enforce peace between the two sides, or better still, one that will militarily intervene against us. I can only imagine the endless posts in that event. There is only one problem with this strategy.

The very reasons we launched wars against SNX are the very same reasons why nobody, at least nobody with significant enough power to matter, will come to his aid right now. In a desperate attempt to convince Bob that these attacks are unjustified and precipitate foreign intervention, he even gave up his position as Emperor of SNX, while pretending that this would take away our actual reasons for war. But, again, anyone with a brain knows that his relationship with Galerion is analogous to that of Putin and Medvedev. With Galerion in charge and Junka still "advising" him, SNX will still continue down the same terrible path, executing the same terrible policies. Galerion is nothing but a mindless figurehead and the evidence is the fact that his presence here has been minimal while Junka is still allowed to bury SNX deeper into the hole they are currently in. It's a journey to the center of the Earth.

Junka's strategy of playing the victim in order to gain public sympathy and support is a crapshoot because the public is fresh out of sympathy. It's the reason why his allies have abandoned him. He suggests that his aggressors read The Art of War, yet he is losing massively on all fronts. Had he read that book and actually digested its contents, perhaps our positions would be reversed. It is insane hubris to attempt to give advice to the winning side when you are quite firmly losing. That insane hubris is the reason for these wars.

 

Your analysis that my posts are intended to influence people's opinions are not actually that incisive. It is immediately obvious that my goal is to inform people. The fact that the aggressors demand I stop posting for us to see peace, is proof they feel insecure of their own narrative.

 

The aggressors have built themselves a trap, because they do not understand the motivations of free men. They are used to bullying and intimidating others into submission, but the Imperium, after all our wars, has not proven so simple to intimidate. And so they are forced to carry out an attempt at extermination which will grow increasingly unpopular amongst their own membership, who have no say in this war of subjugation.

 

The real danger is not that people will flock to the defense of ISX. The real danger is that SLAP and their doomsphere cohorts will not appear in control of the situation, and that will threaten their position against actual strategic rivals long term.

Edited August 27, 2017 by Immortan Junka

[AtlasXero]

 

2 minutes ago, Jack Layton said:

 

That's precisely why it's so inept. He might have even fooled some people on our side had he not done that. But some symbolic transitions of power like giving Galerion AA ownership mean nothing if Junka continues to "advise" him. It will still be Junka's alliance, just through a mindless puppet.

I don't believe you understand the term advise. Advise means to give recommended actions. It's not a leadership position, it's just one that is used to help Gal. If gal chooses to step down he too will be a relief officer in charge of advising the next Head of our alliance, so on so forth. That's the idea and so far that's what we've seen junka doing. Advising.

[Jack Layton]

4 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

Your analysis that my posts are intended to influence people's opinions are not actually that incisive. It is immediately obvious that my goal is to inform people. The fact that the aggressors demand I stop posting for us to see peace, is proof they feel insecure of their own narrative.

 

The aggressors have built themselves a trap, because they do not understand the motivations of free men. They are used to bulling and intimidating others into submission, but the Imperium, after all our wars, has not proven so simple to intimidate. And so they are forced to carry out an attempt at extermination which will grow increasingly unpopular amongst their own membership, who have no say in this war of subjugation.

 

The real danger is not that people will flock to the defense of ISX. The real danger is that SLAP and their doomsphere cohorts will not appear in control of the situation, and that will threaten their position against actual strategic rivals long term.

That may be your goal, but that is not what you are achieving. Each post you make is full of hubris and sophistry, and each post further alienates you from the possibility of resolving this conflict (either with us directly, or via the intervention of another powerful alliance). If you think that people despise your essays because they're afraid, that is a delusion of grandeur that is perhaps unparalleled and unprecedented.

[Jack Layton]

2 minutes ago, AtlasXero said:

 

I don't believe you understand the term advise. Advise means to give recommended actions. It's not a leadership position, it's just one that is used to help Gal. If gal chooses to step down he too will be a relief officer in charge of advising the next Head of our alliance, so on so forth. That's the idea and so far that's what we've seen junka doing. Advising.

 

You're cute in your naivety.

[The Zigur]

Just now, Jack Layton said:

That may be your goal, but that is not what you are achieving. Each post you make is full of hubris and sophistry, and each post further alienates you from the possibility of resolving this conflict (either with us directly, or via the intervention of another powerful alliance). If you think that people despise your essays because they're afraid, that is a delusion of grandeur that is perhaps unparalleled and unprecedented.

 

Only a fool and a tyrant fears the sword more than the truth.

[Serberus_I]

1 hour ago, AtlasXero said:

 

I don't believe you understand the term advise. Advise means to give recommended actions. It's not a leadership position, it's just one that is used to help Gal. If gal chooses to step down he too will be a relief officer in charge of advising the next Head of our alliance, so on so forth. That's the idea and so far that's what we've seen junka doing. Advising.

 

I think the point is that someone who has led your alliance to near destruction through incompetence and arrogance is NOT someone who should be in any way, shape or form providing advice to the new leadership as it will just be business as usual or business as before, which will only further demage SNX.

[Serberus_I]

1 hour ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

Only a fool and a tyrant fears the sword more than the truth.

Takes one to know one