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Recognition of Hostilities


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On 8/12/2017 at 5:42 AM, AlmightyGrub said:

If my "term" was unclear to you in the first place then perhaps you should have clarified with me personally before you began beating your drum.  

 

You know now deep down in your little e-lawyer heart what I meant by vacate.  You chose to return to power on the basis of you being the strong leader who could address evil Polar.  It requires no huge jump in logic to see the path required to accomplish your election promises.  

 

When coupled with other information received it is clear that the NADC had once again found itself led by someone who had their ability and ambition confused.  

 

I am intrigued that "dissolve " is in your vocabulary but if you insist I,for one, would not try to dissuade you.   I doubt this matter is that extreme but I do note that you are prone to hyperbole in all your statements.   

 

Good luck.  You know where I am if you want to debate the validity of the word vacate.  

 

And yet you choose not to specify that you meant 'remain off forever'. I can only speculate why that was the case, but the fact is that you did not, and as such it is clear to all that while NADC might have considered to plan to violate your intent of the treaty, they did not consider to plan to violate the treaty, as you chose to write you.

 

On 8/12/2017 at 11:10 AM, AlmightyGrub said:

Berkanstel may well have committed some acts of treason against NADC, but you screwed yourselves when you decided that orange wasn't good enough for you.  Blue is the natural home of the NpO therefore not the NADC.  Seriously, if you were in doubt, playing semantics wasn't the way forward.  You accepted the term in full knowledge of what it meant, right or wrong in your mind is of no consequence to me.

 

Ah, so we get to the truth. This has nothing to do with the violation of terms or anything like this, but instead Polaris' insistence that Blue is theres and no-one else's. 

 

Thank you for the clarification.

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20 minutes ago, Caladin said:

 

And yet you choose not to specify that you meant 'remain off forever'. I can only speculate why that was the case, but the fact is that you did not, and as such it is clear to all that while NADC might have considered to plan to violate your intent of the treaty, they did not consider to plan to violate the treaty, as you chose to write you.

 

 

Ah, so we get to the truth. This has nothing to do with the violation of terms or anything like this, but instead Polaris' insistence that Blue is theres and no-one else's. 

 

Thank you for the clarification.

 

Yeah, it was forever for NADC.  There are many nations on Blue not Polaris, and don't have any issues.  If there was any confusion before, I think it is pretty clear now.

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1 hour ago, Caladin said:

 

And yet you choose not to specify that you meant 'remain off forever'. I can only speculate why that was the case, but the fact is that you did not, and as such it is clear to all that while NADC might have considered to plan to violate your intent of the treaty, they did not consider to plan to violate the treaty, as you chose to write you.

 

 

Ah, so we get to the truth. This has nothing to do with the violation of terms or anything like this, but instead Polaris' insistence that Blue is theres and no-one else's. 

 

Thank you for the clarification.

 

Hello Caladin.  I see you are still unhappy.  It pains me to see a comrade working so hard to create something when he is not at all in full possession of the facts. I reject your interpretation of the statements made and I point you to the fact that there are many alliances on Blue, two of whom have Senators elected every cycle.  Your assertions are nonsense and inflammatory.  How about you accept the protocols of the Order along with the protections they offer your bloated pixel hugging nation?

 

Still not happy?  Join NADC and put your convictions to work at the end of a nuke.

 

 

 

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From what I can see, most of it is more of the same. With respect, I am not going to waste time responding to those.

 

On ‎12‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 8:12 PM, Morphine said:

Without releasing anything too sensitive,

 

I'll quote Aurelius from the NADC forums

"To clarify it is not OPSEC, but if seen by polars people it has the potential to be problematic. My concern is they will react negatively to this when we are not ready"

 

So back to my original statement "YOU (NADC Govt) knew it would be a problem. YOU (NADC Govt) continued on with the plan regardless of the fact that you knew it would cause problems. Now your pissed because Polar did indeed react negatively to this? Or are you pissed simply because you "weren't ready"? 

 

If you're going to quote, please don't cherry pick. Quote the next part too.

 
Aurelius said:

The more general point is that I think internal discussions should remain internal (again, a return to the Blue Team objective is not official policy yet and is merely the expressed intention of one candidate). That is the attitude I have always taken, both in the past and going into the future. While it is not required by law, it does seem to me to be a natural courtesy.

 
Without a doubt, I made a mistake. But not the mistake you think. I made the mistake of thinking Bernkastel would be a gracious candidate in defeat. I did not know the true nature of his character.
 
What I did know was that even the merest hint that I wished for us to return to the Blue Team was a pretext to declare war on us, regardless of the fact that: (a) it was not yet official policy; (b) it was not in breach of the agreement; and (c) even if I had adopted the most conciliatory means, they would assume hostile action was the only way we sought to achieve that end and pounce upon us. This, in fact, turned out to be prescient.
 
To avoid this end, what I had hoped to do was to lay the ground work to negotiate. First, I had to determine if my people even wanted to return to Blue. As leader, I don't force my views on others but I do have the responsibility for starting the conversation. If my alliance had said it was not worth investing our time, I would have moved onto other things (in fact, other things had been prioritised - trade circles, tech clubs, etc.) If they had said yes, I knew that I had to negotiate with the right people in Polaris. I knew there had to be reasonable, decent people in Polaris - it's just the few prominent bad apples that give you all a bad name.
 
In short, I'm not pissed. I knew Polaris would use any excuse to beat us up was a possibility - if it hadn't been this, it would have been something else. Polaris simply confirmed what I suspected. What I hope is others, both those inside Oculus and outside of it, see the situation for what it is - that Polaris has broken our peace agreement in its haste to find any excuse at all to hit us - and the kind of threat Oculus represents to all - by giving Polaris the military backing and carte blanche it needs to recklessly pursue its objectives, irrespective of what is fact, right or even acceptable behaviour - and indeed, to the continuing vibrancy of Planet Bob.
Edited by Cenk Uygur
Formatting and verbosity editing
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1 hour ago, Immortan Junka said:

Dude, your entire campaign was based on returning to blue team and getting even with Polar. You can't win an election on a platform and then say you have to find out if people support the platform.

Incorrect. In fact, less than 30% of the content in the campaign thread was related to moving to blue. To characterize the entire platform was based on that shows that not only have you not read the things you do have access to, but you choose to ignore the idea that there is more content that you don't know about. Also, the statement that we planned to "[get] even with Polar" is nonsense. Nowhere was it stated that the plan was to get even. I would be hard pressed to state that we do not have bad feeling towards Polar considering our history, but even without Oculus' backing (which they did not directly have 2 months ago when this campaign occurred), it would be a fool's errand to attempt an aggressive action against them.

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1 hour ago, Chunky Monkey said:

Incorrect. In fact, less than 30% of the content in the campaign thread was related to moving to blue. To characterize the entire platform was based on that shows that not only have you not read the things you do have access to, but you choose to ignore the idea that there is more content that you don't know about. Also, the statement that we planned to "[get] even with Polar" is nonsense. Nowhere was it stated that the plan was to get even. I would be hard pressed to state that we do not have bad feeling towards Polar considering our history, but even without Oculus' backing (which they did not directly have 2 months ago when this campaign occurred), it would be a fool's errand to attempt an aggressive action against them.

 

There were a large number of people two months ago who openly thought isolating and hitting Polar/NG was feasible, and that Oculus was about to split. Gh0s7 of TTK schemed against Oculus with a network of collaborators, and very aggressive treaties were being signed by that sector of the treaty web. The only reason I have a dog in the fight is that some of those same people were trying to roll ISX, so we had to abandon our earlier isolationism and pick a side (Polar).

 

I highly doubt NADC's leadership was ignorant of the (apparently) shifting political situation, and I'd wager they wanted to capitalize on it with a victorious return to the blue team. Unfortunately for them, they analyzed the situation completely incorrectly. I didn't. ;)

Edited by Immortan Junka
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45 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

There were a large number of people two months ago who openly thought isolating and hitting Polar/NG was feasible, and that Oculus was about to split. Gh0s7 of TTK schemed against Oculus with a network of collaborators, and very aggressive treaties were being signed by that sector of the treaty web. The only reason I have a dog in the fight is that some of those same people were trying to roll ISX, so we had to abandon our earlier isolationism and pick a side (Polar).

 

I highly doubt NADC's leadership was ignorant of the (apparently) shifting political situation, and I'd wager they wanted to capitalize on it with a victorious return to the blue team. Unfortunately for them, they analyzed the situation completely incorrectly. I didn't. ;)

 

It is almost like NADC think we are stupid.  The screenshots provided so far represent  only a fraction of the intel to hand.  

 

In and and of themselves they create sufficient evidence but be clear there was further investigation leading to the damning conclusion.

 

Aurelius is rambling about the welfare of the planet when really he should be concerned directly with his immediate resignation to save his alliance.  

 

I mock your assertions Aurelius especially where they concern "bad" Polar elements and empowerment via Oculus.  If you think there is anyone sympathetic to you within Polar, you have overreached.  If you think we needed the Oculus treaty to conduct our affairs you would also be grossly mistaken.  

 

Dear NADC members,  your leader is blatantly incompetent.  You are being destroyed because his ego fuels an ambition your alliance can not support.  You allies are unable to do anything useful.  It is time for you to consider your future and that of your alliance.  Please do not listen to his self serving revision of the facts at hand, please don't be blinded to reality

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41 minutes ago, Neo Uruk said:

"Less than 30%" isn't really reassuring that something is anything other than the bulk of a campaign

 

If in fact that hastily configured percentage is in fact true.  I seems to me that the point of difference in the campaign was indeed this restoration of NADC to the Blue team and the addressing of the wrongs committed upon NADC by the evil Polar.

 

I also note the extreme arrogance of Aurelius continues, his dismissive attitude towards answering the complaints against him is typical of someone who believes their situation to be much better than it is.  The general membership of the NADC would be well within their rights to be asking questions of the Sec-Gen about now, how could a stable situation with Polar be allowed to deteriorate so fast and so far when their previous Sec-Gen had things so completely under control.

 

Chunky Monkey is a great guy in my experience but his efforts in this thread have been deplorable.  It is time for a new age of NADC leaders to rise up and overthrow the stagnant bitter and twisted individuals hogging the prime locations.  A simple amount of diplomacy would have prevented your current destruction, but like the NADC of old you chose to arrogantly plot and plan in secret, aided by others whose time will come shortly, once again confusing your reality with your fantasy.

 

If the NADC lacks the courage to do so, the will to find new leadership, perhaps I will have to help you.  Far better for fate to be in your own hands though.  Be positive, take some action now before everything you have lies in ruin...again.  It is lucky that those old nations who never do anything but occupy positions of authority got caught in full economic prosperity mode isn't it.  For once they will experience what the common man has felt many times.

 

Godspeed NADC, your future is in your hands, not that of your flaccid leadership, if you so desire it to be.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, EaTeMuP said:

 

 

I'm not sure if there will be anything left to Viceroy over.

 

Of course there will be a few bitter and twisted nations, who despite logic and truth confronting them, will choose to remain in the crumbling chrysalis whilst the rest of their alliance departs to be beautiful blue butterflies.  I can imagine some of them will fly into the fluro to be eaten by the geckos, but some will survive the journey.

 

I will gladly help anyone who wants to be free to truly be free.  It is in my nature to care for all Bob's creatures up to and including the ones that are better going off to the ''farm''.

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5 minutes ago, EaTeMuP said:

 

 

We just saved one misled NADC member.  We welcome others.

 

There is plenty of room at the fountain.  Just raise your hand and start walking towards the light. 

 

I have decided, to follow Grubby, no turning back, no turning back.

Edited by AlmightyGrub
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On 8/11/2017 at 2:59 PM, Lord Hitchcock said:

Can we please quit calling it a 'curb stomp'... that word meaning is the outdated and grossly overused.

 

Let's call it a learning curve or positive reinforcement or constructive conditioning. 

 

 

 

Better term Aggressive negotiations

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