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One year anniversary of the start of SPATR-Oculus war


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1 hour ago, Blackatron said:

Because most people will eventually make the decision to surrender, even if most of the time there is no way to technically force any terms. In most cases the aggressive coalition will rely on the fact that the enemy will give into war fatigue or attempt to conserve what pixels they can. In this case neither applies.

 

Bones sanctioned first, so as much as I didn't care for Sengoku I don't think they were the aggressors. Interesting I suppose that the original combatants on both sides aren't around anymore.

 

Still, after all this fighting, it's probably wiser for Oculus to keep their adversaries pinned down than fork over an unconditional white peace to a politically uncooperative adversary. As I noted, ISX did that with Methrage and he claimed victory, then attacked us.

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3 hours ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

Bones sanctioned first, so as much as I didn't care for Sengoku I don't think they were the aggressors. Interesting I suppose that the original combatants on both sides aren't around anymore.

 

Still, after all this fighting, it's probably wiser for Oculus to keep their adversaries pinned down than fork over an unconditional white peace to a politically uncooperative adversary. As I noted, ISX did that with Methrage and he claimed victory, then attacked us.

You're probably right about this. Pretending that SPATR wants peace is disingenuous at this point. They've lost what they really valued, and are just ragequitting now.

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3 hours ago, Duderonomy said:

You're probably right about this. Pretending that SPATR wants peace is disingenuous at this point. They've lost what they really valued, and are just ragequitting now.

Bingo. Such is their prerogative. Posting here to remind the world every 6 months that this is still ongoing to try and gain any sort of sympathy is hilarious though. Firstly, there is no sympathy to be gained when you rejected a simple admission of defeat; secondly, there isn't anyone who will give you sympathy when you've made it known that this is your swan song anyway.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

Bones sanctioned first, so as much as I didn't care for Sengoku I don't think they were the aggressors. Interesting I suppose that the original combatants on both sides aren't around anymore.

 

 

I didn't mean to use "aggressive" in a derogatory sense in this instance, Oculus technically declared this war and declared the first individual wars (unless counting GOONS) but I wouldn't claim that Sengoku or Oculus actually started this war in any real sense.

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There's no point in making a counter-offer. Oculus is clear about their intentions.

 

6 hours ago, Duderonomy said:

You're probably right about this. Pretending that SPATR wants peace is disingenuous at this point. They've lost what they really valued

 

And what would that be?

 

Edited by murtibing
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4 hours ago, Ch33kY said:

Sad that Bones felt he had to leave the game after drowning in his own tears. You guys should stop fighting for his lost cause.

 

It's not sad at all. He was awful and the world is better without him.

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5 hours ago, Ch33kY said:

Sad that Bones felt he had to leave the game after drowning in his own tears. You guys should stop fighting for his lost cause.

I have to agree with Sabcat. Ridding the world of Bones is probably the greatest achievement Oculus has ever managed.

 

I've never thought admission of defeat terms are worth fighting for - or about. The only terms that matter are the ones that affect your nations. So if that's all this war is still about, I think both Oculus and SPATR are silly for fighting about an irrelevant term.

 

I guess I was just figuring they were still fighting because they were bored. B-)

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4 hours ago, Duderonomy said:

The clout that BONES once gave you. Deny it if you like. But the rage quit says otherwise.

TBF, I've seen people rage quit, it usually involves this button:

 

Quote
Delete My Nation: cancel.png Delete Nation Form

 

A "rage quit" that has gone on for a year so far and will likely go one for at least 1 more year isn't really a rage quit TBH, or if it is it would require an absolutely breathtaking amount of rage.

 

1 hour ago, Haflinger said:

I've never thought admission of defeat terms are worth fighting for - or about. The only terms that matter are the ones that affect your nations. So if that's all this war is still about, I think both Oculus and SPATR are silly for fighting about an irrelevant term.

 

I would pretty much agree with this sentiment... but there are exceptions, such as serious violations of sovereignty, and cases where the defeated party is expected to make an admission/apology and then actually pretend to believe it. The second example is a problematic surrender term, as if and when it is somewhat obvious that they didn't really mean it (which they obviously never would have) it could be used as a CB for a second war against them, as was the case with the second Oculus war against MI6.

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6 hours ago, shahenshah said:

Not sure what the problem is here, Sptr wants to continue fighting, that's fine. 

 

Wish bones was here, would have brought us more joy. Turned out he was all talk no walk.  

 

Oh I'm sure bones's is still here in spirit

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On 3/16/2017 at 2:14 PM, Mogar said:

Thing is, you attacked them, by doing so you cannot blame them for continuing the war, even if they agreed to surrender they'd be unable to return their nations to anywhere close to their rankings beforehand. As such, why the $%&@ would they agree to surrender while sitting on what amounts to unlimited cash?

 

Quoted for truth. Declaring war on folks with massive warchests fighting overwhelming odds will just breed an non ending war. Being wasteful I suspect my modest warchest could last 24 perhaps 30 months. I could only imagine what a large warchest would be capable of. Eventually normal folks get tired of their generals being assassinated out of thin air, their collections being messed with and the constant threat of being dragged into the scrum.

 

Pixels always win out.

 

Take away years worth of pixels and all that is left is causing as much pain and suffering as possible. Apparently Oculus enjoys the pain and suffering.

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2 hours ago, eejack said:

 

Quoted for truth. Declaring war on folks with massive warchests fighting overwhelming odds will just breed an non ending war. Being wasteful I suspect my modest warchest could last 24 perhaps 30 months. I could only imagine what a large warchest would be capable of. Eventually normal folks get tired of their generals being assassinated out of thin air, their collections being messed with and the constant threat of being dragged into the scrum.

 

Pixels always win out.

 

Take away years worth of pixels and all that is left is causing as much pain and suffering as possible. Apparently Oculus enjoys the pain and suffering.

There comes a point when the nations attacking us do not do considerable damage and the damage can be mitigated or repaired in full with an aid package.  So while you can fight for a year or more your damage output will eventually get diminished.  

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3 minutes ago, Caliph said:

There comes a point when the nations attacking us do not do considerable damage and the damage can be mitigated or repaired in full with an aid package.  So while you can fight for a year or more your damage output will eventually get diminished.  

 

Eventually, that might be true, but it also becomes true that the lower tier gets completely harassed. I am not doing serious damage except for killing generals and chunks of tech/infra/land from nukes but am also doing so without any real additional damage to my nation. I can understand why some folks can war for years without qualm.

 

If you create an entire lower tier of over wondered over monied opponents with nothing left to do but harass your lower tier, eventually your lower tier will have to rise up ( stop feeding your alliance tech ) or leave ( stop feeding your alliance tech ) in which case you will no longer be able to prosecute the war. However the precious upper tier will be completely safe.

 

That is assuming a term of time less than the end of game - which we all are assuming is around the corner anyway - and great enough to make any chance of recovery impossible. It appears there are two long wars already at that point and there is no indication this current conflict will end any differently.

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Eh. Never had a problem tech dealing while warring. At such low levels, one aid package completely rebuilds a nation higher than before the war. It also adds some pretty decent war experience, but so does tournament edition :P

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23 hours ago, eejack said:

 

Eventually, that might be true, but it also becomes true that the lower tier gets completely harassed. I am not doing serious damage except for killing generals and chunks of tech/infra/land from nukes but am also doing so without any real additional damage to my nation. I can understand why some folks can war for years without qualm.

 

If you create an entire lower tier of over wondered over monied opponents with nothing left to do but harass your lower tier, eventually your lower tier will have to rise up ( stop feeding your alliance tech ) or leave ( stop feeding your alliance tech ) in which case you will no longer be able to prosecute the war. However the precious upper tier will be completely safe.

 

That is assuming a term of time less than the end of game - which we all are assuming is around the corner anyway - and great enough to make any chance of recovery impossible. It appears there are two long wars already at that point and there is no indication this current conflict will end any differently.

That has not been my experience.  As you lose NS you first lose your infra, then your tech.  Once your tech gets to a certain level your damage is the default damage for attacks, unless you tech deal or rebuy tech periodically.  What you can do is harass the lower tier because you would most likely have full wonders and be expeirenced.  You could also rebuy infra as needed to win GA's.  The damage you do might require some to need aid packages instead of being able to to tech deals, but I just don't see the tech deal disruption.  

 

Perhaps as more and more AA's get crushed into the small tiers and stubbornly refuse peace we might see more of that, but not right now.  

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2 minutes ago, Caliph said:

Perhaps as more and more AA's get crushed into the small tiers and stubbornly refuse peace we might see more of that, but not right now. 

 

Seems like a good arrangement - a couple of quick wars that don't really hurt the uppers and then with everyone out of range they can just sit it out and keep growing their tech and land. No need to worry about peace as leadership is never really in jeopardy.

 

So in essence it is all good as long as the upper tier keeps the tech flowing and the lower tiers handle the brunt of the conflict.

 

It will be interesting to see how that plays out.

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I've prosecuted a war entirely on techdeals before, even unfavorable ones. If the AA in question has a newbie aid program like NG (there's a reason anyone over 2 months old has an MP), then getting them to 3999/4999 for wonder building is easy. By the time the rogue saves enough to buy up to that level, the newbie has acquired an MP/SDI and a few nukes along the way. Then they can start doing real damage. Even better if the rogue starts burning through their warchest faster to reach 4999.

 

Combine that with tech farms that simply sit at the lower tiers and bust apart rogues, and you get a good portion of nations that can fight back until the rogue has no meaningful impact on the bigger AA.

 

Only techdeals can save the rogue, and that either invites reprisals from the top tier, or can only be obtained from DBDC or GPA, who are generally immune from reprisals. Whether either chooses to deal and at what terms may not break well for the rogue.

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