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The Order of Tenebris


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4 minutes ago, Cress said:

So from no gov, to have a gov, to some gov. I think even you are as confused as us.

It is clear what protocol an independent alliance have to follow if they wanted to initiate talks with the order. There is no confusion regarding that just like there is no confusion regarding this. 

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2 hours ago, Roal36 said:

OoT has never had a govt till today. It's not our alliances fault that you and others thought otherwise.

 

7 hours ago, Nightside said:

After two years of semi-anarchy in which it was abandoned by its original members, the Order of Tenebris hereby restructures itself into an organized alliance with a functional and active government.

 

So which is it? A functional and active government? Or never had one?

 

Who was doing the talking on behalf of the alliance - that person would be the govt. 

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5 minutes ago, Razgriz24 said:

Their FA fellow there was the first to communicate with me a few days ago then blocked me before I could even respond... I demand redress in the form of the ability to PM anyone and everyone I see fit.

I agree. I too want that right.

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12 minutes ago, Sir Kiloist said:

 

 

So which is it? A functional and active government? Or never had one?

 

Who was doing the talking on behalf of the alliance - that person would be the govt. 

I am really sorry for the confusion you all had in that regards. Hopefully that is resolved now.

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3 minutes ago, Sir Kiloist said:

So which is it? A functional and active government? Or never had one?

 

It is functional and active AFTER this restructuring...

 

Before that we did things by consensus. Before Roal36 joined us, the alliance was basically just me and my trade circle plus inactives. Guaravita and I were promoted without being given official positions during this period so we were de facto in charge, but we did not speak in the name of the alliance except when we were mediating conflicts. My only purpose was to mentor my trade circle on how to grow their nations, and a quiet micro that had DT and TTK protection was perfect for us. We had only two incidents - when Josef K went nuke rogue on me, and when Varangian Guard attacked me for something Guaravita did alone. And they were both resolved with Dark Templar mediation. We only expanded to over 20 nations when Roal joined us and started recruiting -_-

 

In other words, despite not having an official government, Guaravita and I were around, as was Tyronia, and there was no excuse about not approaching us with a dispute. The internal workings of OoT should not be anyone's business as long as we fulfill our international obligations - which we have always done and will always continue to do.

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1 hour ago, Jack Layton said:

 

Habibi, why do you say such things? I have slain many enemies of the Imperium.

 

We were once enemies, Akhi. But we have fought many a Jihad together, and we can only hope that our enemies will convert or pay the Jizya.

Edited by Immortan Junka
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1 hour ago, Nightside said:

 

It is functional and active AFTER this restructuring...

 

Before that we did things by consensus. Before Roal36 joined us, the alliance was basically just me and my trade circle plus inactives. Guaravita and I were promoted without being given official positions during this period so we were de facto in charge, but we did not speak in the name of the alliance except when we were mediating conflicts. My only purpose was to mentor my trade circle on how to grow their nations, and a quiet micro that had DT and TTK protection was perfect for us. We had only two incidents - when Josef K went nuke rogue on me, and when Varangian Guard attacked me for something Guaravita did alone. And they were both resolved with Dark Templar mediation. We only expanded to over 20 nations when Roal joined us and started recruiting -_-

 

In other words, despite not having an official government, Guaravita and I were around, as was Tyronia, and there was no excuse about not approaching us with a dispute. The internal workings of OoT should not be anyone's business as long as we fulfill our international obligations - which we have always done and will always continue to do.

 

I'm gonna let you slide here on account I don't really care. Was just a wee bit confused on why there was conflicting statements. Should have probably made it more pronounced. This is a good start though.

 

just fyi.. no official govt and you expected people to just know? bad idea in CN most people in this game dont put their shoes on correctly.

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7 minutes ago, Sir Kiloist said:

I'm gonna let you slide here on account I don't really care. Was just a wee bit confused on why there was conflicting statements. Should have probably made it more pronounced. This is a good start though.

 

just fyi.. no official govt and you expected people to just know? bad idea in CN most people in this game dont put their shoes on correctly.

 

Yeah this worked fine for us since we mostly kept to ourselves and just adhered to our tech deals. We didn't expect anyone to know, just expected someone to tell us when they have a problem with us. That is a moot point regardless; people are just butthurt that Roal triggered them and they're taking it out on us (and the fact that OoT is an old enemy of VG didn't help). I'm not here to reason with our attackers, as if they were reasonable they wouldn't be attacking. I'm just clearing up our situation for the record.

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36 minutes ago, Nightside said:

 

We didn't expect anyone to know, just expected someone to tell us when they have a problem with us.

We didn't expect anybody to take in a nation at war with us without talking to us about the situation first. 

 

But hey, ours is the only side that should follow protocol and extend professional courtesies right?

 

You talk out of both sides of your face a lot.

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5 minutes ago, Banned said:

We didn't expect anybody to take in a nation at war with us without talking to us about the situation first. 

 

But hey, ours is the only side that should follow protocol and extend professional courtesies right?

 

You talk out of both sides of your face a lot.

 

Woah Banned don't use logic it'll confuse him apparently. 

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OoT has a open entry system. Since the nation in question is not fighting ONE attacking war we didn't think it worth the trouble.

Besides SLAP has already shown its disregard for proper courtesy when they let in Berbers without asking me. Berbers declared war against Malabar stating the reason as "Surrender and join SLAP"
http://www.cybernations.net/war_information.asp?ID=814850

I didn't approach SLAP then when the war was happening because SLAP declared that Berbers was not acting on behalf of the alliance. We took them at their word for it. But then a few weeks later Berbers after fighting a round or two with my TTK protectors makes peace with TTK and rejoins SLAP. SLAP never approached me if I was ok with it? Berbers to his credit fought well and we didn't have any sort of drama but if SLAP thinks it's ok let in rogues then surely OoT can let in ex MI6 guys with no recent offensive wars.

Again we reiterate our official position that we are not going to apologise for existing and trying to function independently.

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5 minutes ago, Roal36 said:

OoT has a open entry system. Since the nation in question is not fighting ONE attacking war we didn't think it worth the trouble.

Besides SLAP has already shown its disregard for proper courtesy when they let in Berbers without asking me. Berbers declared war against Malabar stating the reason as "Surrender and join SLAP"
http://www.cybernations.net/war_information.asp?ID=814850

I didn't approach SLAP then when the war was happening because SLAP declared that Berbers was not acting on behalf of the alliance. We took them at their word for it. But then a few weeks later Berbers after fighting a round or two with my TTK protectors makes peace with TTK and rejoins SLAP. SLAP never approached me if I was ok with it? Berbers to his credit fought well and we didn't have any sort of drama but if SLAP thinks it's ok let in rogues then surely OoT can let in ex MI6 guys with no recent offensive wars.

Again we reiterate our official position that we are not going to apologise for existing and trying to function independently.

 

Go pop a Xanax.

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10 hours ago, Banned said:

We didn't expect anybody to take in a nation at war with us without talking to us about the situation first. 

 

But hey, ours is the only side that should follow protocol and extend professional courtesies right?

 

You talk out of both sides of your face a lot.

 

I mean, he can't even get his story straight on whether or not Roal is gov.

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3 minutes ago, DeathAdder said:

 

I mean, he can't even get his story straight on whether or not Roal is gov.

Our lack of gov has not prevented VG from reaching out to us when they last wanted us to do something.

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1 minute ago, DeathAdder said:

That has zero to do with what I said.

We are just straightening out our side of the story. SLAP alleges that their failure to follow proper protocol and etiquette before they started attacking us was because of the short comings of our own alliances. I am just saying that it is not the case. As Nightside said our internal deficiencies is of no concern to the external alliances. Clearly SLAP leaders thought that I was in the govt, they themselves said so in this and other threads.

If they really believed that I was in the govt then why didn't they try to communicate with me regarding this issue. They could have reached me ingame, forum messaging or through Discord. First they say that they think I am the govt, then they say that since there is no govt in OoT we didn't communicate. It is really self contradictory for me.

I really like to know from Banned why SLAP didn't attempt to solve (to my knowledge) the issue diplomatically. Ofcource I don't want such a discussion to happen right here in the public unless that is what Banned prefers.

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44 minutes ago, Roal36 said:

We are just straightening out our side of the story. SLAP alleges that their failure to follow proper protocol and etiquette before they started attacking us was because of the short comings of our own alliances. I am just saying that it is not the case. As Nightside said our internal deficiencies is of no concern to the external alliances. Clearly SLAP leaders thought that I was in the govt, they themselves said so in this and other threads.

If they really believed that I was in the govt then why didn't they try to communicate with me regarding this issue. They could have reached me ingame, forum messaging or through Discord. First they say that they think I am the govt, then they say that since there is no govt in OoT we didn't communicate. It is really self contradictory for me.

I really like to know from Banned why SLAP didn't attempt to solve (to my knowledge) the issue diplomatically. Ofcource I don't want such a discussion to happen right here in the public unless that is what Banned prefers.

If an alliance feels that a gov member of another alliance is being belligrent to them and then can not find who the other government members are then they are not going to diplomatically speak to that gov member. You could argue that they could have contacted you, but you could have contacted them. The party who feels hard done by isn't going to be overly diplomatic to you and won't go out of their way to dig for information. Alas, your issues with SLAP could easily have been avoided if you had an application procedure. 

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1 hour ago, Roal36 said:

We are just straightening out our side of the story. SLAP alleges that their failure to follow proper protocol and etiquette before they started attacking us was because of the short comings of our own alliances. I am just saying that it is not the case. As Nightside said our internal deficiencies is of no concern to the external alliances. Clearly SLAP leaders thought that I was in the govt, they themselves said so in this and other threads.

If they really believed that I was in the govt then why didn't they try to communicate with me regarding this issue. They could have reached me ingame, forum messaging or through Discord. First they say that they think I am the govt, then they say that since there is no govt in OoT we didn't communicate. It is really self contradictory for me.

I really like to know from Banned why SLAP didn't attempt to solve (to my knowledge) the issue diplomatically. Ofcource I don't want such a discussion to happen right here in the public unless that is what Banned prefers.

 

Even most Micros actually bother to extend the courtesy of checking with an alliance if an individual wants to join them is okay or not if that Nation has a war going on (offensive or defensive) with another nation. Whether that AA's membership is open, closed, or invite-only, that is the AA's responsibility to do. Even with non-aligned wars, most make them wait at least until the war expires before they get membership.

 

Don't sit in here and give me your default song and dance that you bunch managed to blunder up over there in your alliance to shift blame that it was SLAP's, or anyone elses faults, beyond your own. You accepted a nation who was on someone's target list and those people got pissed off at you. That is an established Act of War, and has been for a long time, combined with your incessant comments in your attempt to play a Political Agenda on the OWF, which got turned around on you, and you just kept further digging a hole for yourself each and everytime you pressed the "Submit Reply" button. The ONLY thing that you, or any of your AA should be surprised about, is how long it took them to respond to your asshattery.

Edited by DeathAdder
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Just now, Cress said:

If an alliance feels that a gov member of another alliance is being belligrent to them and then can not find who the other government members are then they are not going to diplomatically speak to that gov member. You could argue that they could have contacted you, but you could have contacted them. The party who feels hard done by isn't going to be overly diplomatic to you and won't go out of their way to dig for information. Alas, your issues with SLAP could easily have been avoided if you had an application procedure. 

No reason for SLAP to feel that me or any one of the other OoT member is being belligerent towards them unless if they feel that I was holding grudge against them for  letting in Berber. Since I didn't message or express my dislike for Berber being let in the alliance they have no reason to feel that I was holding any kind of grudge against them.

They can find who other govt members are. They just needed to communicate with TTK who is a very public ally of OoT. I am always active, TTK will inform me and advice me to do the right thing and I would follow what they say with consultation from other members of the OoT. The whole thing would last less than a day and since OoT is not rich enough to help this guy in his fight with SLAP, there could be ZERO material damages for SLAP as a result of the actions of OoT. 


You want to join the Order, you click join the alliance and if anybody has any reservations about you we kick you out. 

 

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2 hours ago, Roal36 said:

No reason for SLAP to feel that me or any one of the other OoT member is being belligerent towards them unless if they feel that I was holding grudge against them for  letting in Berber. Since I didn't message or express my dislike for Berber being let in the alliance they have no reason to feel that I was holding any kind of grudge against them.

They can find who other govt members are. They just needed to communicate with TTK who is a very public ally of OoT. I am always active, TTK will inform me and advice me to do the right thing and I would follow what they say with consultation from other members of the OoT. The whole thing would last less than a day and since OoT is not rich enough to help this guy in his fight with SLAP, there could be ZERO material damages for SLAP as a result of the actions of OoT. 


You want to join the Order, you click join the alliance and if anybody has any reservations about you we kick you out

 

By having an open join system, you are accepting Nations at War without first knowing what their crimes are. Which then leads to further problems. All other alliances would first find out what they've done to be at war and then make their decision from that, or go and speak to the government of the other alliance before accepting said member. There's a way to go about things that will earn you good will and there's your way of doing it that creates ill-will. All depends whether you want this situation to keep cropping up or to implement a vetting system where you can nullify issues such as these.

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28 minutes ago, Cress said:

By having an open join system, you are accepting Nations at War without first knowing what their crimes are. Which then leads to further problems. All other alliances would first find out what they've done to be at war and then make their decision from that, or go and speak to the government of the other alliance before accepting said member. There's a way to go about things that will earn you good will and there's your way of doing it that creates ill-will. All depends whether you want this situation to keep cropping up or to implement a vetting system where you can nullify issues such as these.

I think he just said that they did...

 

You want to join the Order, you click join the alliance and if anybody has any reservations about you we kick you out

 

 

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