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Beware the ides of March


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20 minutes ago, DeathAdder said:

As to your point, I thought backchannel politicking was a thing since day one, but perhaps written history is wrong and there was total unrestrained agenda play over the Forums, and it's not the fact that there's only roughly ~5k active nations being the result of the OWF dying.

Never to the extent it became post Karma, since that showed there was no inherent value to even signed treaties, they can be ignored or canceled rather easily and those who were once your allies can be attacking you a week later. Actually concerning yourself with PR and the OWF was once a big part of this world, even after we swapped to these forums, ironically Karma is one of the best examples of that Archon maintained a level of eloquence and nearly instant public reply I can only list about four people including myself who are able to match.

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3 minutes ago, Mogar said:

Never to the extent it became post Karma, since that showed there was no inherent value to even signed treaties, they can be ignored or canceled rather easily and those who were once your allies can be attacking you a week later. Actually concerning yourself with PR and the OWF was once a big part of this world, even after we swapped to these forums, ironically Karma is one of the best examples of that Archon maintained a level of eloquence and nearly instant public reply I can only list about four people including myself who are able to match.

 

Yeah, I can agree with that, at least as far as written history is concerned. However, in my own time here, I've seen plenty of OWF politicking up until around the end of Disorder or so. It was slowly dying from the way it was even during Bipolar and PB-NpO, but Disorder is when it really began to become noticable. At least for me. And with that, I'm done derailing VG's DoW talking about days gone by.

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I will talk about it in every thread personally, we all agree there is major flaws within our world, it is only through discussion and the creation of ideology that any of us even have a justification for political beliefs in the first place, if this world is in fact one mainly of politics, it is all of our responsibilities to solve the problems that the vast majority of us agree upon, God has long been silent upon this place, if we wish to live in a better world we must create it ourselves.

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5 minutes ago, Mogar said:

I will talk about it in every thread personally, we all agree there is major flaws within our world, it is only through discussion and the creation of ideology that any of us even have a justification for political beliefs in the first place, if this world is in fact one mainly of politics, it is all of our responsibilities to solve the problems that the vast majority of us agree upon, God has long been silent upon this place, if we wish to live in a better world we must create it ourselves.

 

That's perfectly fair. and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with the discussion, just the placement of it in Alliance Announcements is questionable to me, so I normally don't partake here.

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32 minutes ago, Mogar said:

Never to the extent it became post Karma, since that showed there was no inherent value to even signed treaties, they can be ignored or canceled rather easily and those who were once your allies can be attacking you a week later. Actually concerning yourself with PR and the OWF was once a big part of this world, even after we swapped to these forums, ironically Karma is one of the best examples of that Archon maintained a level of eloquence and nearly instant public reply I can only list about four people including myself who are able to match.

 

You vastly overestimate your rhetorical abilities. All you do is whine about Oculus and that supposedly nobody can beat them. Sengoku and their allies attacked the Imperium: we didn't whine about how the battle couldn't be won, we fought with iron and blood to ensure our continued independence.

 

I think a strong argument could be made that all treaties should be ODoAPs. If an alliance govt is too lazy and inactive to be productive, why should more successful alliances put their membership on the line to defend the weak and lazy? When we get to the core of your argument, you're just feeling entitled to other people fighting on your behalf. 

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1 minute ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

You vastly overestimate your rhetorical abilities. All you do is whine about Oculus and that supposedly nobody can beat them. Sengoku and their allies attacked the Imperium: we didn't whine about how the battle couldn't be won, we fought with iron and blood to ensure our continued independence.

 

I think a strong argument could be made that all treaties should be ODoAPs. If an alliance govt is too lazy and inactive to be productive, why should more successful alliances put their membership on the line to defend the weak and lazy? When we get to the core of your argument, you're just feeling entitled to other people fighting on your behalf. 

I think you do as well. I call out Oculus as I did WUT, to pretend as though I am concerned about losing a war is a rather odd argument to make, RIA has no worries about its continued survival even if it means our entire alliance in the micro tier and continuing to vote for our Senator to ensure that M3D is unable to control the majority of the Maroon senate.

I think a strong argument could be made that security should not be a priority over ideology long term, there once was wars over ideological differences, whether to prevent PZIs as one of Karma's core tenants or the various wars between Nordreich and whatever Communist alliance you'd like to use as an example. Such ideological differences still exist today but are ignored, as are many old grievances which one would think alliances would wish to act upon. The core of my argument is that our planet's politics are reaching a point where a dramatic shift must occur or there shall be a checkmate scenario.

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Heh lol at Roal thinking I care about his whining like an infant that has been told they can't have candy.

 

Also you beautiful cats ojwardsc

Edited by Alexio15
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23 minutes ago, Mogar said:

I think you do as well. I call out Oculus as I did WUT, to pretend as though I am concerned about losing a war is a rather odd argument to make, RIA has no worries about its continued survival even if it means our entire alliance in the micro tier and continuing to vote for our Senator to ensure that M3D is unable to control the majority of the Maroon senate.

I think a strong argument could be made that security should not be a priority over ideology long term, there once was wars over ideological differences, whether to prevent PZIs as one of Karma's core tenants or the various wars between Nordreich and whatever Communist alliance you'd like to use as an example. Such ideological differences still exist today but are ignored, as are many old grievances which one would think alliances would wish to act upon. The core of my argument is that our planet's politics are reaching a point where a dramatic shift must occur or there shall be a checkmate scenario.

 

If you are willing to fight for your existence, then good for you. However, 90% of the time it sounds like you are just whining about Oculus rather than taking any serious action to improve your alliance. You have a 3% aid slot usage rate and are almost entirely composed of tired old nations.

 

Ideology should be in line with security. Methrage had plenty of useless ideology and we managed to wipe him off the map. That means his ideology didn't work.

 

And lol at the Armageddon War being some noble effort to end PZI. I was EZI'd after leading IAA during the GATO-1V war, and your supposed heroes of Karma had nothing to do with me getting off the list. Armageddon was a result of Moo's bad strategic decisions, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Communists and Nazis fighting for stupid OOC reasons is not real ideology. OOC communists and fascists formed NPO in collaboration. Real ideology on Planet Bob means ideology in analysis of Planet Bob, not a stupid excuse to fight for no reason.

 

20 minutes ago, Mogar said:

I'd also like to point out the hilarity of your argument AGAINST ideology when you yourself are likely one of the largest sources of ideological content, what is logic.

 

You have no ideology. If you did, you would sound more like Vladimir than... whatever this is.

Edited by Immortan Junka
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3 hours ago, Roal36 said:

All of the threads I talk about in this war, are hard for me as my alliance is going to be ground to dust and there's nothing I can do. Also my protectors are awful for not coming to my aid.

51063801.jpg

 

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27 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

If you are willing to fight for your existence, then good for you. However, 90% of the time it sounds like you are just whining about Oculus rather than taking any serious action to improve your alliance. You have a 3% aid slot usage rate and are almost entirely composed of tired old nations.

 

Ideology should be in line with security. Methrage had plenty of useless ideology and we managed to wipe him off the map. That means his ideology didn't work.

 

And lol at the Armageddon War being some noble effort to end PZI. I was EZI'd after leading IAA during the GATO-1V war, and your supposed heroes of Karma had nothing to do with me getting off the list. Armageddon was a result of Moo's bad strategic decisions, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Communists and Nazis fighting for stupid OOC reasons is not real ideology. OOC communists and fascists formed NPO in collaboration. Real ideology on Planet Bob means ideology in analysis of Planet Bob, not a stupid excuse to fight for no reason.

 

 

You have no ideology. If you did, you would sound more like Vladimir than... whatever this is.

Improving my alliance would not shift the balance of upper tier nations, even with 3 years straight of avoiding wars, not a single alliance that is not IRON NPO or UMB could match the tech growth of those three, why make a concerted effort to grow into a tier we have no assistance when you can exist at the mid tier forever and actually have allies within the same NS range?

 

Ideology is what shaped Karma into being, even if most of said ideology was "NPO rolled you before, don't you want to roll them?", alliances communicating and finding common goals beyond merely security is what changes our world, security for security's sake serves no purpose if the world is going to die because of it.

If you could get over your difficulty drawing a line between IC and OOC, perhaps we could discuss my IC ideology at some point.

Edited by Mogar
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4 hours ago, Roal36 said:

As I told you just before I am telling you again. VG/AM has been attacking me and my alliance before without provocation during the post Monster Mash recovery period. There was atleast 3 NAP violations from their side.  Even when I didn't bother them in Forums they have been attacking my nation.

And about me crapping about Alexio. I have started doing that when I was in COBRA. Kashmir didn't mind me doing it then, I wonder why they are bothered by it now.

I would just like to point out that there is and hasnt ever been a NAP between Roal and VG/AM or OoT and VG/AM. 

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1 minute ago, Morphine said:

I would just like to point out that there is and hasnt ever been a NAP between Roal and VG/AM or OoT and VG/AM. 

 

Expected/10.

 

If that were the case, he would've thrown a linked agreement up in a heartbeat and been like "Look! As I told you, I am totally innocent and did nothing to provoke them until they continued to make me mad and now I can't accept my part of the responsibility in this!"

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1 minute ago, DeathAdder said:

 

Expected/10.

 

If that were the case, he would've thrown a linked agreement up in a heartbeat and been like "Look! As I told you, I am totally innocent and did nothing to provoke them until they continued to make me mad and now I can't accept my part of the responsibility in this!"

Ill be waiting for this agreement. He is probably typing one up now. Make sure you get my name right Roal. 

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-Roal36 posts surrender on the OWF (in the war resignation thread), and acknowledges defeat at the hands of VG, SNX, Kush, AM, SLAP, LC, SRA, and FoC.

-Roal36 includes a statement to the effect that he will not interfere with FoC in the future to include poaching, propaganda, spamming, spying, proxy warfare, etc. 

-Roal36 further agrees that he will not interfere with any Monsters Mash Coalition AA for the duration of the conflict and for a period of 6 months following, to include poaching, propaganda, spamming, spying, proxy warfare, etc.

-Roal36 will draft a paragraph to include a minimum of 10 lines of text praising the leadership of General Kanabis

-Roal36 shall not return to Monsters Inc Reborn, in animalz or in any AA in which President Hardin is a member for the duration of the conflict and for a period of 6 months following the current conflict.  He shall send no aid to Monsters Inc Reborn, to animalz, or to any AA in which President Hardin is a member, shall assist them in no wars, and shall not vote for President Hardin in the brown team senate for the duration of the conflict. 

-Monsters Mash grants peace to Roal36 in good standing so long as these conditions continue to be met, and does not consider Roal36 to be a prisoner-of-war. 

Yes I was wrong it was not a NAP agreement but it was still a peace agreement and one which I fully adhered to till certain constituents in MM coalition started breaking it.

Edited by Roal36
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2 minutes ago, Roal36 said:

-Roal36 posts surrender on the OWF (in the war resignation thread), and acknowledges defeat at the hands of VG, SNX, Kush, AM, SLAP, LC, SRA, and FoC.

-Roal36 includes a statement to the effect that he will not interfere with FoC in the future to include poaching, propaganda, spamming, spying, proxy warfare, etc. 

-Roal36 further agrees that he will not interfere with any Monsters Mash Coalition AA for the duration of the conflict and for a period of 6 months following, to include poaching, propaganda, spamming, spying, proxy warfare, etc.

-Roal36 will draft a paragraph to include a minimum of 10 lines of text praising the leadership of General Kanabis

-Roal36 shall not return to Monsters Inc Reborn, in animalz or in any AA in which President Hardin is a member for the duration of the conflict and for a period of 6 months following the current conflict.  He shall send no aid to Monsters Inc Reborn, to animalz, or to any AA in which President Hardin is a member, shall assist them in no wars, and shall not vote for President Hardin in the brown team senate for the duration of the conflict. 

-Monsters Mash grants peace to Roal36 in good standing so long as these conditions continue to be met, and does not consider Roal36 to be a prisoner-of-war. 

Yes I was wrong it was not a NAP agreement but it was still a peace agreement and one which I fully adhered to till certain constituents in MM coalition started breaking it.

51063801.jpg

 

Ojwardsc

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3 minutes ago, Roal36 said:

-Roal36 posts surrender on the OWF (in the war resignation thread), and acknowledges defeat at the hands of VG, SNX, Kush, AM, SLAP, LC, SRA, and FoC.

-Roal36 includes a statement to the effect that he will not interfere with FoC in the future to include poaching, propaganda, spamming, spying, proxy warfare, etc. 

-Roal36 further agrees that he will not interfere with any Monsters Mash Coalition AA for the duration of the conflict and for a period of 6 months following, to include poaching, propaganda, spamming, spying, proxy warfare, etc.

-Roal36 will draft a paragraph to include a minimum of 10 lines of text praising the leadership of General Kanabis

-Roal36 shall not return to Monsters Inc Reborn, in animalz or in any AA in which President Hardin is a member for the duration of the conflict and for a period of 6 months following the current conflict.  He shall send no aid to Monsters Inc Reborn, to animalz, or to any AA in which President Hardin is a member, shall assist them in no wars, and shall not vote for President Hardin in the brown team senate for the duration of the conflict. 

-Monsters Mash grants peace to Roal36 in good standing so long as these conditions continue to be met, and does not consider Roal36 to be a prisoner-of-war. 

Yes I was wrong it was not a NAP agreement but it was still a peace agreement and one which I fully adhered to till certain constituents in MM coalition started breaking it.

It was a peace agreement. I got one from NG back in Kashmir. Do I expect them NEVER to attack me again? Ofcourse not. Peace is short lived my friend, its a dangerous world. 

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3 minutes ago, Roal36 said:

-snip-

 

1 minute ago, Alexio15 said:

-Roal36 further agrees that he will not interfere with any Monsters Mash Coalition AA for the duration of the conflict and for a period of 6 months following, to include poaching, propaganda, spamming, spying, proxy warfare, etc.

-Monsters Mash grants peace to Roal36 in good standing so long as these conditions continue to be met,

 

I was going to point this out, but as always, Alexio got there first.

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2 minutes ago, Morphine said:

It was a peace agreement. I got one from NG back in Kashmir. Do I expect them NEVER to attack me again? Ofcourse not. Peace is short lived my friend, its a dangerous world. 

Yes I also am not expecting the peace to last but I think you guys broke the agreement within weeks or less than a month's time after it was agreed upon.

Edited by Roal36
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Just now, Roal36 said:

Yes I also am not expecting the peace to last but I think you guys broke the agreement within weeks or less than a month's time.

There is no agreement. YOU surrendered. The terms are only in our favor. There is no agreement. It says what YOU can do and not do, not us.

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8 minutes ago, Morphine said:

There is no agreement. YOU surrendered. The terms are only in our favor. There is no agreement. It says what YOU can do and not do, not us.

Alright, and I went to read the coalition channel after I responded here.  So, here's what I got for you.  If you're in agreement, let me know. 

 

-Roal36 posts surrender on the OWF (in the war resignation thread), and acknowledges defeat at the hands of VG, SNX, Kush, AM, SLAP, LC, SRA, and FoC.

-Roal36 includes a statement to the effect that he will not interfere with FoC in the future to include poaching, propaganda, spamming, spying, proxy warfare, etc. 

-Roal36 further agrees that he will not interfere with any Monsters Mash Coalition AA for the duration of the conflict and for a period of 6 months following, to include poaching, propaganda, spamming, spying, proxy warfare, etc.

-Roal36 will draft a paragraph to include a minimum of 10 lines of text praising the leadership of General Kanabis

-Roal36 shall not return to Monsters Inc Reborn, in animalz or in any AA in which President Hardin is a member for the duration of the conflict and for a period of 6 months following the current conflict.  He shall send no aid to Monsters Inc Reborn, to animalz, or to any AA in which President Hardin is a member, shall assist them in no wars, and shall not vote for President Hardin in the brown team senate for the duration of the conflict. 

-Monsters Mash grants peace to Roal36 in good standing so long as these conditions continue to be met, and does not consider Roal36 to be a prisoner-of-war. 

Those are the exact words used by Banned when he send me the terms of surrender.

"I accept all of your terms" - The exact wording I used when accepting your terms.

I accepted your coalitions terms. Those terms were created by your side and imposed upon me.
"Monsters Mash grants peace to Roal36 in good standing so long as these conditions continue to be met"
Forgive me I don't know any other way to read it.

Edited by Roal36
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Just now, Roal36 said:

Alright, and I went to read the coalition channel after I responded here.  So, here's what I got for you.  If you're in agreement, let me know. 

 

-Roal36 posts surrender on the OWF (in the war resignation thread), and acknowledges defeat at the hands of VG, SNX, Kush, AM, SLAP, LC, SRA, and FoC.

-Roal36 includes a statement to the effect that he will not interfere with FoC in the future to include poaching, propaganda, spamming, spying, proxy warfare, etc. 

-Roal36 further agrees that he will not interfere with any Monsters Mash Coalition AA for the duration of the conflict and for a period of 6 months following, to include poaching, propaganda, spamming, spying, proxy warfare, etc.

-Roal36 will draft a paragraph to include a minimum of 10 lines of text praising the leadership of General Kanabis

-Roal36 shall not return to Monsters Inc Reborn, in animalz or in any AA in which President Hardin is a member for the duration of the conflict and for a period of 6 months following the current conflict.  He shall send no aid to Monsters Inc Reborn, to animalz, or to any AA in which President Hardin is a member, shall assist them in no wars, and shall not vote for President Hardin in the brown team senate for the duration of the conflict. 

-Monsters Mash grants peace to Roal36 in good standing so long as these conditions continue to be met, and does not consider Roal36 to be a prisoner-of-war. 

Those are the exact words used by Banned when he send me the terms of surrender.

"I accept all of your terms" - The exact wording I used when accepting your terms.

I accepted your coalitions terms. Those terms were created by your side and imposed upon me.
"Monsters Mash grants peace to Roal36 in good standing so long as these conditions continue to be met"
Forgive me I don't know any other way to read it.

Honestly, I can't say for sure since I have no involvement in this spat, but I get the feeling that they just don't like you.   Feel free to correct me if I am incorrect Morphine

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13 minutes ago, Williambonney said:

Honestly, I can't say for sure since I have no involvement in this spat, but I get the feeling that they just don't like you.   Feel free to correct me if I am incorrect Morphine

Just wanted to correct some people who were saying that my actions in OWF was the reason for this aggression.  

Edited by Roal36
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17 minutes ago, Roal36 said:

Just wanted to correct some people who were saying that my actions in OWF was the reason for this aggression.  

Your actions in OWF are part of the reason for this. My MDoAP with SLAP is another. OoT accepted a nation at war with them into the AA and made him govt. Williambonney, your partially right, I mean I do hate the guy but I try to make all my wars have a valid CB

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Just now, Morphine said:

Your actions in OWF are part of the reason for this. My MDoAP with SLAP is another. OoT accepted a nation at war with them into the AA and made him govt. Williambonney, your partially right, I mean I do hate the guy but I try to make all my wars have a valid CB

If SLAP had any objections they could have messaged me. Last I checked letting in a guy fighing 1 defending war while sitting in a defunct alliance is not act of war I accepted his explanation for the war and let him come. Also SLAP had one guy fighting him so I though its nothing serious.
He is not in government.

 

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