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Announcement regarding SPATR-Oculus War


murtibing
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4 minutes ago, Fermion said:

eh, boring

 

Your alliances have been reduced to ashes, your leaders and members demoralised and going inactive and still, you cling onto your ego and refuse to just surrender as any losing side would. You expect that Oculus will ask for peace like a losing party even though even though it's your alliance that started the war and lost. What's in there for us to ask for peace? The most we can say is that we're tired of this drag war where 14 billion warchest enemies sit in the !@#$ tier and attack newbies. Just admit the fact that you were defeated and move on. If not, atleast know that you can't expect and there will be no peace offer from Oculus.

He still has that much after all this time? Can't imagine how much he must have had to start with.

 

I would probably agree with you point, but I dispute the "!@#$ tier" comment, all 4 nations in Mongols are over 21,000 NS, which may be lower or lower-mid tier, but certainly isn't !@#$ tier (that's where these guys are http://www.cybernations.net/alliance_display.asp?ID=11461), and honestly there aren't really many noobs in this range, if they are it's their own fault (I probably fall into that category, but should I find myself at war with a much stronger nation I would know it is my own fault for letting my NS get so high without the wonders to back it up).

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Many spatr guys are in the lower tier range, including sgt gus. And some, like manteuffal sell infra, declare on lower range targets and rebuild back up.

 

Well he had 14 billion at the start. He has 11 billion now, probably

Edited by Fermion
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20 hours ago, Fermion said:

eh, boring

 

Your alliances have been reduced to ashes, your leaders and members demoralised and going inactive and still, you cling onto your ego and refuse to just surrender as any losing side would. You expect that Oculus will ask for peace like a losing party even though even though it's your alliance that started the war and lost. What's in there for us to ask for peace? The most we can say is that we're tired of this drag war where 14 billion warchest enemies sit in the !@#$ tier and attack newbies. Just admit the fact that you were defeated and move on. If not, atleast know that you can't expect and there will be no peace offer from Oculus.

Did you cry? Your tears, it's delicious.

 

on the positive notes, this past eight months was my active months in my 10 years existence. So better enjoy it while you can.

 

PS: NPO has more than 4 pages below 5k NS ranges, it's still plenty of target for us. Yay us. :)

 

Or be a good kid like NoR, who sent all of us this warm message in October:

"Nordreich is officially abandoning this effort. We have only engaged once over the last two months. Regardless, I will be issuing orders to cease and desist. I realize the state of warfare you are currently in. Given this fact I don't expect you to oblige and return the favor, however it would be appreciated. Cheers."

Edited by Prozenz
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20 hours ago, Fermion said:

Many spatr guys are in the lower tier range, including sgt gus. And some, like manteuffal sell infra, declare on lower range targets and rebuild back up.

 

Well he had 14 billion at the start. He has 11 billion now, probably

That's uh, pretty decent warchest conservation, at those levels they can attack with inpunity until the end of this world.

To put this in perspective, unless you maintained 3 nations for the sole purpose of every single nation below around 15-20k, anyone with a warchest above about 500m could probably stay in that range forever without any real recourse.

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warcosts are simply based off how much you're willing to commit, if you wish to exist forever, its entirely possible, I have fought just about every round for every war in our world's history and so long as you don't have an absurd tech investment it's difficult to burn you out of capital.

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http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?search=325202&Extended=1

 

Sigh See this is why I don't get why Oculus is continuing this war, that's 4 times over 2 months he has been able to get out of anarchy and declare 4 wars, you guys obviously don't really want to be fighting this anymore (and why would you?), NoR has apparently completely withdrawn from the conflict, the guy who started the conflict is gone. I agree completely with @Fermion that Oculus shouldn't have to be the ones to initiate peace, they are after all by any reasonable standards the victor, but at this point why wouldn't you?

 

They seem to have made it fairly clear they won't be initiating peace talks, despite what you claim they are still actually sucking up a fair amount of resources, and don't count as training for newbies (as people so often claim) and at this point are making your entire bloc look slightly dumb by continuing this conflict. If you were to approach them for peace it is not as if anyone reasonable would come to the conclusion it was a draw or Oculus lost, considering an entire sphere has been essentially reduced to absolutely nothing.

 

27 minutes ago, Williambonney said:

I cannot speak for others rates but during Disorder I fought nearly non stop for 3 months, cost me roughly 3 billion.  

This is closer to what I imagined. However keep in mind many of these guys had a lot of infra/land and tech at the beginning, so would have burned through WCs like crazy at first.

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Back in the day many of us were never even given a chance for peace. I was personally EZI'd because of fighting back against the ancient Hegemony. The kind of wonders and improvements that exist today would have been my wet dream years ago.

 

Now though I think it gets taken too far, it's one thing to defend yourself against permawar, but it's another to fight unecessarily. There's a scale of nations, on the one hand, civilization, on the other, barbarism: civilized nations focus on protecting growth and the culture of production, while barbarian nations are like bulls in a china shop, impervious to the damage they cause to the social fabric of this world.

 

What morality exists without the security and stability of the sovereign alliance? If we all chose to become rampaging rogues, what would happen to the decade of unique history of this world? 

 

Some of us choose to sacrifice peace and prosperity so others can have it. I hope it is such people, and not inactive old leaders, who come to dominant politics in all alliances, so that a trend develops in which the whole world puts aside petty politics to work together for the common good.

 

 

 

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First of all, SPATR doesn't "demand" or "expect" that Oculus Coalition will offer peace.

 

My statements here (that Oculus Coalition hasn't offered peace) were simply statements of fact. I have pointed this out merely because some people were talking how SPATR "refused" something. Whereas nothing was offered so nothing was refused.

 

Besides, I don't see why it is considered so important which side will be the first to extend a peace offer. It's not important for SPATR or MONGOLS in any case.

 

And as far as attacking nations without wonders is concerned: In the beginning of this war Oculus Coalition sent nations equipped with almost all wonders against nations with only a few economic wonders or no wonders at all. So now SPATR Coalition is merely returning the favor.

 

On 11/18/2016 at 1:38 PM, Blackatron said:

 

Spending only $3 billion over 8 months? That seems a bit low.

 

Fermion posted only amount without specifying whose war chest it is. I guess he was referring to Sgt Gus' war chest. In the beginning of this war Sgt Gus told me his war chest was 14bil, which coincides with amount posted by Fermion. So 3bil spent is reasonable, especially if one takes into account that Sgt Gus was sending large amounts of foreign aid during this war.

Edited by murtibing
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Let's not exaggerate the importance of whether or not this continues forever.

  • Mongols: four in war mode, all between 18-36k
  • SPATR: eight in war mode, all below 8k
  • NEW: 12 in war mode, all below 20k
  • Kaskus: four in war mode, all below 18k
  • TIR: zero in war mode

This isn't even a hassle, it's a rounding error.

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11 hours ago, Williambonney said:

I cannot speak for others rates but during Disorder I fought nearly non stop for 3 months, cost me roughly 3 billion.  

The amount you spend on warfare varies greatly depending mostly on the competence of your opponents. Especially, if you don't have to buy back navy (either because you're operating in the non-naval range or because your opponents are terrible or focusing on someone else's boats), war is a whole lot cheaper. Still, the basic tool of the destroy money spy op, run twice daily over 3 months, should smash about a billion by itself at 50% odds.

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On 20/11/2016 at 3:56 AM, Sarkin said:

Let's not exaggerate the importance of whether or not this continues forever.

  • Mongols: four in war mode, all between 18-36k
  • SPATR: eight in war mode, all below 8k
  • NEW: 12 in war mode, all below 20k
  • Kaskus: four in war mode, all below 18k
  • TIR: zero in war mode

This isn't even a hassle, it's a rounding error.

 

True, you have collectively gathered together so much strength that they don't even make the tiniest of dents. But in all seriousness, how is that fun for you? How do Oculus members not wake up just, fundamentally, bored to their core? Is a game without any opposition, in which you collect pixels that you'll never get to use, really something you like to do?

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3 hours ago, Cazaric said:

 

True, you have collectively gathered together so much strength that they don't even make the tiniest of dents. But in all seriousness, how is that fun for you? How do Oculus members not wake up just, fundamentally, bored to their core? Is a game without any opposition, in which you collect pixels that you'll never get to use, really something you like to do?

 

Please meet the new Hegemony, same as the old Hegemony.

 

OK, a bit of handy sloganeering on my part, but only half-true. Yes, they're like every other incarnation of themselves in that they're back doing what they do best, namely, kneeling agape before their Red God. However, they have no opposition this time. The real opponents they had have either vanished, been co-opted, or cower before them. Look at their stated reasons for their last military campaigns. They're not even trying any more.

 

Somewhere in that bloated mass may lie someone interested in making a power grab of some kind, but I doubt it. Along with real opposition, Hegemony 2.0 has lost far too many of the people who made Hegemony 1.0 at least interesting to watch. Some sort of lowest-common-denominator effect, no doubt. Shows that inertia really is a thing, though.

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6 hours ago, Cazaric said:

 

True, you have collectively gathered together so much strength that they don't even make the tiniest of dents. But in all seriousness, how is that fun for you? 

 

No, it's not fun. But neither is vacuuming a carpet. That doesn't mean that you don't continue to vacuum the carpet. It's simple housekeeping that just takes a few minutes each week.

 

A number of the folks in the Mongols, SPATR, NEW, Kaskus, and TIR grouping have said that they're done with politics and that they just want to permawar forever, similar to TPF. There's no reason for us to offer peace when the cost of the "war" continuing is entirely negligible and we know there are a bunch of permarogues contained in this tiny grouping anyway. If they ask for peace, they'll get it. If they get their house in order and distance themselves from the permarogues before asking for peace, we'll probably shake their hands, too. 

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58 minutes ago, Sarkin said:

 

No, it's not fun. But neither is vacuuming a carpet. That doesn't mean that you don't continue to vacuum the carpet. It's simple housekeeping that just takes a few minutes each week.

 

 

The politics of Planet Bob metaphorically compared to vacuuming a carpet, when answering this post:

 

(White Chocolate thinks for a bit)

 

Okay.  I guess I can't argue otherwise :D

Edited by White Chocolate
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Eh, other than the brief moment of decent politicking after Bi-Polar, this 8 month and counting war is the funnest event yet.  I can honestly say the years of building tech and wonders were much less fun than burning them.

 

Edit:  i should put in that I joined right after Bi-Polar, so I missed all the oldschool fun

Edited by berbers
Clarity
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4 hours ago, White Chocolate said:

The politics of Planet Bob metaphorically compared to vacuuming a carpet, when answering this post:

 

(White Chocolate thinks for a bit)

 

Okay.  I guess I can't argue otherwise :D

 

Hi White Chocolate, here is the comic that accurately illustrates what just happened:

 

6dvXjDL.png

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After almost constantly being in 3-5 wars for 9.5 months, I've spent less than 2 billion dollars personally. At this level you can fight on and on and on, we still have nations with 10 billion dollar war chests who will likely fight until the planet is no more. I have probably destroyed 30+ thousand lower tier tech that was bound upward during that time. Spied away hundreds of millions of dollars and cost hundreds of millions more in rebuilding. Also forced hundreds of tech slots to be turned into rebuilding aid slots/kept tech from being delivered on time due to money and tech destruction. Multiply that over and over and there's a cost to the fighting even for the larger side. Especially when the smaller side has absolutely nothing to lose.

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On 11/19/2016 at 8:08 AM, murtibing said:

 

Besides, I don't see why it is considered so important which side will be the first to extend a peace offer. It's not important for SPATR or MONGOLS in any case.

 

If it isn't important to SPATR or MONGOLS,  then why aren't the sides at least talking about peace?  The other seems open to talking.  They just want you to approach them.  If it is truly not important to you, then do it.  Actions speak louder than words.

 

 

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