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Imperium Decree regarding Sengoku


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21 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

Let's not forget the Imperium was attacked here, and let's not pretend that we are some aggressor. I support peace, if peace may be, and Galerion has full authority to negotiate it.

 

So, your AA get hit by two nations just after the wars end, common case, you know that as you've been playing this game for a long time, but instead of just do what everyone does (that is contact the attackers alliance and show your indignation to their gov, ask for reps, etc.)  you go full rhetoric, call us "honorless scum" (lol) for what you know (c'mon, you know that we all know that you know!) is a common mistake...

 

Then, when someone is trying to talk to you, you let him hanging half conversation (can put the logs if you want) and go and open this post full of more verbosity, even when there is post in the other thread, telling you that it was a mistake.

 

And, ofc, you go ahead and before anything can be discussed,  and declare on one of our nations, losing a good chunk of the moral authority you had, because your response to a mistake with an intentional (and irrational) act, excessive wording exclude, ofc.

 

But yeah, Galerion have full authority to go and clean the mess, that could have been easily fixed in the most common way it get resolved every time it happen, that is a lot.

 

I think that you should probably take a deep look at what brucemania is trying to tell you, even if you don't acknowledge here, but you should, it makes a lot of sense. 

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8 minutes ago, Mogar said:

Don't be a dumb dumb, just accept whatever reps you're offered and keep your head down.

Junka, standing for your principles is one thing, self destruction is a other, and hurting nations in SNX is yet another. Do you realize that nations in SNX are hurt because of your moralizing? Please, no one wants SNX to do well more than I do and I am just stating the obvous fact that at this point you are working against the intrests of SNX

Edited by RightHonorable
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23 minutes ago, fonsy said:

 

So, your AA get hit by two nations just after the wars end, common case, you know that as you've been playing this game for a long time, but instead of just do what everyone does (that is contact the attackers alliance and show your indignation to their gov, ask for reps, etc.)  you go full rhetoric, call us "honorless scum" (lol) for what you know (c'mon, you know that we all know that you know!) is a common mistake...

 

Then, when someone is trying to talk to you, you let him hanging half conversation (can put the logs if you want) and go and open this post full of more verbosity, even when there is post in the other thread, telling you that it was a mistake.

 

And, ofc, you go ahead and before anything can be discussed,  and declare on one of our nations, losing a good chunk of the moral authority you had, because your response to a mistake with an intentional (and irrational) act, excessive wording exclude, ofc.

 

But yeah, Galerion have full authority to go and clean the mess, that could have been easily fixed in the most common way it get resolved every time it happen, that is a lot.

 

I think that you should probably take a deep look at what brucemania is trying to tell you, even if you don't acknowledge here, but you should, it makes a lot of sense. 

 

Sengoku does not have any moral authority itself because the Plutocratic War was wrongful in the first place. This violation of the peace agreement deserves a full-throated answer, not timid and meek begging for peace. I have not even said that I accept Sengoku's excuses for the wars against our membership, which at the least exhibits poor discipline if not outright treachery.

 

A counterattack by myself to hold Kingdom of Goon in warmode should Sengoku not cooperate is not some sort of moral failing. Reducing his nation to ZI yet again would be an appropriate response if Galerion is not negotiated with in good faith.

 

It's not "irrational" to stand our ground when we are attacked for no reason... it's Sengoku's job to clean up its mess, I am not responsible for several of your members attacking us.

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Sengoku does not have any moral authority itself because the Plutocratic War was wrongful in the first place. This violation of the peace agreement deserves a full-throated answer, not timid and meek begging for peace. I have not even said that I accept Sengoku's excuses for the wars against our membership, which at the least exhibits poor discipline if not outright treachery.

As was admitted in the other thread the wars were started by mistake and failure of communication. While this does shows poor discipline on Sengoku's part it doesn't justify an immediate and imprudent rush to war on the part of SNX, especially you Junka, you claim to want peace, yet you bluster your way into wars that you cannot possibly win.  

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2 minutes ago, RightHonorable said:

As was admitted in the other thread the wars were started by mistake and failure of communication. While this does shows poor discipline on Sengoku's part it doesn't justify an immediate and imprudent rush to war on the part of SNX, especially you Junka, you claim to want peace, yet you bluster your way into wars that you cannot possibly win.  

 

You really should not let your issues with SNX internally as a member cloud your rhetoric publicly. Just because we don't give out government positions like candy doesn't mean we are the wrong party here.

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1 minute ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

Sengoku does not have any moral authority itself because the Plutocratic War was wrongful in the first place. This violation of the peace agreement deserves a full-throated answer, not timid and meek begging for peace. I have not even said that I accept Sengoku's excuses for the wars against our membership, which at the least exhibits poor discipline if not outright treachery.

 

A counterattack by myself to hold Kingdom of Goon in warmode should Sengoku not cooperate is not some sort of moral failing. Reducing his nation to ZI yet again would be an appropriate response if Galerion is not negotiated with in good faith.

 

It's not "irrational" to stand our ground when we are attacked for no reason... it's Sengoku's job to clean up its mess, I am not responsible for several of your members attacking us.

 

Lol, again with the verbosity... let see, what you say is that declaring a war back in this situation is the right move?

 

So, if the mistake was made for one of your nations, we be right that instead of contacting you, we would directly go and declare on one or more of the nations in your AA?

 

And, I know that technically two nations are "several" nations, but c'mon, seeing how we operate, and having experienced it at first hand, do you really think that those "several" nations are anything else that two guys that didn't check the target list properly?, and hey, you can use the words you want, but you are talking about two guys.

 

I'm not an expert in FA, or in  anything CN related to be honest, but my understanding is that this kind of situation are always resolved by few PM and some reps, not going full rhetoric and declaring wars.

 

I can tell you, on good authority that Sengoku isn't planning to attack your AA, stole or enslave your tech sellers (or something like that I read in one of your posts), and one thing that may get you by surprise, we don't even give you or your AA a single thought, that is until !@#$ like this happen and the ones that drew the short straw are here talking to you.

 

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2 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

You really should not let your issues with SNX internally as a member cloud your rhetoric publicly. Just because we don't give out government positions like candy doesn't mean we are the wrong party here.

That had nothing to do with it, after the negotiations regarding Scotland I and everyone else there realized that you impeded those negotiations with your bluster. 

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1 minute ago, RightHonorable said:

That had nothing to do with it, after the negotiations regarding Scotland I and everyone else there realized that you impeded those negotiations with your bluster. 

 

And to think he thinks it is the tech that is isolating his AA. 

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22 minutes ago, fonsy said:

 

Lol, again with the verbosity... let see, what you say is that declaring a war back in this situation is the right move?

 

So, if the mistake was made for one of your nations, we be right that instead of contacting you, we would directly go and declare on one or more of the nations in your AA?

 

And, I know that technically two nations are "several" nations, but c'mon, seeing how we operate, and having experienced it at first hand, do you really think that those "several" nations are anything else that two guys that didn't check the target list properly?, and hey, you can use the words you want, but you are talking about two guys.

 

I'm not an expert in FA, or in  anything CN related to be honest, but my understanding is that this kind of situation are always resolved by few PM and some reps, not going full rhetoric and declaring wars.

 

I can tell you, on good authority that Sengoku isn't planning to attack your AA, stole or enslave your tech sellers (or something like that I read in one of your posts), and one thing that may get you by surprise, we don't even give you or your AA a single thought, that is until !@#$ like this happen and the ones that drew the short straw are here talking to you.

 

 

In the past we have been "raided" numerous times by those desiring our destruction, if people don't want to be bit by a rattlesnake don't go out of your way to play with us. Any attack against us is no trivial matter and is dealt with in a grave and austere manner, with hateful feelings involved, especially when attacks are coming from previously hostile entities.

 

SNX has not been treated according to the diplomatic conventions of this world, going back to the Doom War, July Revolution and War on Terror: we have no need to adhere to said diplomatic conventions and would rather make our case openly for all to see. We will never again grovel for peace, we have been through too many wars to simply hope that we survive the storms that target us.

Edited by Immortan Junka
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7 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

In the past we have been "raided" numerous times by those desiring our destruction, if people don't want to be bit by a rattlesnake don't go out of your way to play with us. Any attack against is is no trivial matter and is dealt with in a grave and austere manner, especially when coming from previously hostile entities.

 

Lol, man, that's is what I'm trying to tell you, we aren't going out our way to play with you, we are going out of our way to *NOT* play with you. Going to quote myself here:

40 minutes ago, fonsy said:

I can tell you, on good authority that Sengoku isn't planning to attack your AA, stole or enslave your tech sellers (or something like that I read in one of your posts), and one thing that may get you by surprise, we don't even give you or your AA a single thought, that is until !@#$ like this happen and the ones that drew the short straw are here talking to you.

 

We don't want to raid you, we don't want to disband you, we don't want to even have to talk to you again, you are *not* our enemy or our friend, or our nothing, two days after the last wars expired, and we were already forgetting about you, but this whole thing ruined that.

 

You can try and stretch this as long as you can to get some attention, but the true is that it was a simple mistake, a common one, and that could have been resolved so easy, that is beyond ridiculous that we still talking about that so many hours since it happend.  Two of the wars had already peace out.

 

7 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

SNX has not been treated according to the diplomatic conventions of this world, going back to the Doom War, July Revolution and War on Terror: we have no need to adhere to said diplomatic conventions and would rather make our case openly for all to see. 


So, you don't resolve something in the simple and efficient way, just because is the standard convention and you don't want to adhere to that?, really?.

 

Let me tell you, if you see everyone in the highway going in the wrong direction and hitting their claxons and lights, everyone but you, you may have to accept that maybe, just maybe, is you who is going in the wrong direction, and as many here had trying to explain, you are driving a bus full of people relying on you...

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I've thought about whether these wars might be my fault, and perhaps to an extent they are because I dare to dream of an alliance free of exploitation and tyranny. But considering that Supernova X was brutally attacked during the Doom war despite the fact I had been expelled weeks prior by the corrupt High Court, I can't but conclude that it is something inherent about SNX itself that causes us to defend ourselves so often.

 

Perhaps we are the bullied kid of CN, relentlessly attacked over and over because we don't have the right friends, or simply because we are different. If so, instead of whining about it, we simply became completely militarized. I can't think of any other alliance that went from a democratic, divided government model, to a military-first authoritarian government within two years of founding.

 

Perhaps I will accept your word that this was not intentional, but considering our past history we can never assume this is the case.

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7 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

I've thought about whether these wars might be my fault, and perhaps to an extent they are because I dare to dream of an alliance free of exploitation and tyranny. But considering that Supernova X was brutally attacked during the Doom war despite the fact I had been expelled weeks prior by the corrupt High Court, I can't but conclude that it is something inherent about SNX itself that causes us to defend ourselves so often.

 

Perhaps we are the bullied kid of CN, relentlessly attacked over and over because we don't have the right friends, or simply because we are different. If so, instead of whining about it, we simply became completely militarized. I can't think of any other alliance that went from a democratic, divided government model, to a military-first authoritarian government within two years of founding.

 

Perhaps I will accept your word that this was not intentional, but considering our past history we can never assume this is the case.

 

I dont think the Doom war had much to do with you if i am recalling right?  ... I think the stuff you have brought upon yourself is more recent since you ressurected SNX from the coup you so joyously keep pounding about

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1 minute ago, brucemania said:

 

I dont think the Doom war had much to do with you if i am recalling right?  ... I think the stuff you have brought upon yourself is more recent since you ressurected SNX from the coup you so joyously keep pounding about

 

That's my point, even after I was expelled from SNX this alliance was targeted for destruction.

 

I haven't "brought anything on myself," unless speaking the truth is wrong, in which case I will be gladly "wrong" for the rest of my existence as a nation ruler.

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Just now, Immortan Junka said:

 

That's my point, even after I was expelled from SNX this alliance was targeted for destruction.

 

I haven't "brought anything on myself," unless speaking the truth is wrong, in which case I will be gladly "wrong" for the rest of my existence as a nation ruler.

 

Agian i may be wrong but i think it was more due to them disbanding or seperating and some used it as more a raiding thing .. personally i was not around for that bit but agian i am sure i will be corrected if need be ... again my point is since YOU YOURSELF have been leadership you have been making the mistakes many have mentioned aside from me. 

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6 minutes ago, brucemania said:

 

Agian i may be wrong but i think it was more due to them disbanding or seperating and some used it as more a raiding thing .. personally i was not around for that bit but agian i am sure i will be corrected if need be ... again my point is since YOU YOURSELF have been leadership you have been making the mistakes many have mentioned aside from me. 

 

My leadership quality is for my members to decide, not foreigners; especially not foreigners aligned with Sengoku (yourself) or brief former members who couldn't function as part of a military unit (Righthonorable). 

Edited by Immortan Junka
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4 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

My leadership quality is for my members to decide, not foreigners; especially not foreigners aligned with Sengoku (yourself) or brief former members who couldn't function as part of a military unit (Righthonorable). 

 

See again you are missing the point about leadership .. you are the reflection and voice of your AA .. what you say and do reflects on the membership. And i will give you as long as your members are being lead to believe whatever jargon you maybe be spilling internally ... externally what you say and do does become other peoples concern.  And to be honest you just dont know when to keep quiet and move on. Each time you are speaking is putting your AA three or four steps back externally to others instead of making the strides you may want of  make of peace and growth for you AA.

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8 minutes ago, brucemania said:

 

See again you are missing the point about leadership .. you are the reflection and voice of your AA .. what you say and do reflects on the membership. And i will give you as long as your members are being lead to believe whatever jargon you maybe be spilling internally ... externally what you say and do does become other peoples concern.  And to be honest you just dont know when to keep quiet and move on. Each time you are speaking is putting your AA three or four steps back externally to others instead of making the strides you may want of  make of peace and growth for you AA.

 

Our alliance is set back according to what standard? Pointless nationstrength growth?

 

I merely laid out in the OP what was already our policy and fighting doctrine since before the Plutocratic War. If people desire to test our doctrine that is their decision to grasp the rattlesnake by the tail. After every war we conduct an analysis and figure out how to make our military venom more lethal.

 

If people don't want to deal with us, leave us alone. Stop attacking us. Let us sell tech. Very simple stuff.

Edited by Immortan Junka
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9 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

Our alliance is set back according to what standard? Pointless nationstrength growth?

 

I merely laid out in the OP what was already our policy and fighting doctrine since before the Plutocratic War. If people desire to test our doctrine that is their decision to grasp the rattlesnake by the tail. After every war we conduct an analysis and figure out how to make our military venom more lethal.

 

If people don't want to deal with us, leave us alone. Stop attacking us. Let us sell tech. Very simple stuff.

 

Instead of trying to figure out the military part alone ... figure out the FA side and work at maybe taking a different approach to the vision you see .... obviously what you are doing now is not working well.  Perfect example .. NPO after Karma .. it took awhile but through adapting and changing FA through others advice including enemies.

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1 minute ago, brucemania said:

 

Instead of trying to figure out the military part alone ... figure out the FA side and work at maybe taking a different approach to the vision you see .... obviously what you are doing now is not working well.  Perfect example .. NPO after Karma .. it took awhile but through adapting and changing FA through others advice including enemies.

 

I was a member of NPO under Cortath and fully supported the Order against Mushroom Kingdom ideologically. While both NPO then and SNX today are in similar underdog positions, the biggest difference is that SNX has never been a top-dog, hegemonic power, nor have we ever desired to be. We simply want to be left alone by raiders and warmongers.

 

A more appropriate comparison would be of SNX being a fortress surrounded by larger, more hostile powers. Unless we become a puppet state for one of the larger powers (we won't), there's no point in hoping for people to be nice to us when they were, by and large, not so nice in the past. I'd rather create a wall of nukes and an extremely disruptive military deterrent rather than hope for people to suddenly become nice.

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24 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

I was a member of NPO under Cortath and fully supported the Order against Mushroom Kingdom ideologically. While both NPO then and SNX today are in similar underdog positions, the biggest difference is that SNX has never been a top-dog, hegemonic power, nor have we ever desired to be. We simply want to be left alone by raiders and warmongers.

 

A more appropriate comparison would be of SNX being a fortress surrounded by larger, more hostile powers. Unless we become a puppet state for one of the larger powers (we won't), there's no point in hoping for people to be nice to us when they were, by and large, not so nice in the past. I'd rather create a wall of nukes and an extremely disruptive military deterrent rather than hope for people to suddenly become nice.

Regardless of size the same principals suffice.  As well during Cortaths time we were not at war until DH war.  Cortath served his purpose primarily to help us rebuild and get through the reps that were handed down to us and even during DH he was not as much are leader at the time. That was when we started to realise we needed to change our approach FA wish through the words of sardonic and Rush and others at the time pointing out we needed to become more adaptable and transperent. But transparent was not being glorifying oursleves as constant victims or pin cushions to poke at constantly.

Edited by brucemania
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It must be nice to sit in a position of privilege and support attacks against the Imperium, but for us our job is to make it hurt as much as possible. Maybe someday I can retire and focus on blowing up tanks in another world, but it seems every time me and my members finally get to relax and kick back someone attacks and forces us back to full mobilization.

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