autosave36 Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 Listen, I am long since retired. I have launched a token attack on Walsh, got bored with that and went back to plucking potatoes in the Republic of Joe. I really have no dog in the fight. I wish Sengoku well because I helped found it, and I have a lot of friends there. I'll always be on the AA as long as I'm in this realm. But really I'm pretty impartial here. My main thought is what is TSC thinking? You were told by someone that this is someone who they consider to be at war with them. This has been on every alliance application I've ever filled out in 6 years in CN (Granted that's like 4 applications ever) "Are you currently at war with another alliance or on their ZI list"... I just don't see why there had to be any democratic process. Sengoku is in a much more advantageous position. Conversation should literally have gone like this "Hey your guy you just accepted is actually still at war with Sengoku" "Well we thought he was okay. What would it take for him to not be at war with Sengoku anymore? Can we work something out" "These are my terms" "works for me"... or maybe you negotiate something back. Who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 44 minutes ago, autosave36 said: "These are my terms" This part would be fine, but apparently they also have not existed for any war Oculus has begun, which sort of means that the entire premise of your hypothetical conversation fails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackatron Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 1 hour ago, autosave36 said: Listen, I am long since retired. I have launched a token attack on Walsh, got bored with that and went back to plucking potatoes in the Republic of Joe. I really have no dog in the fight. I wish Sengoku well because I helped found it, and I have a lot of friends there. I'll always be on the AA as long as I'm in this realm. But really I'm pretty impartial here. My main thought is what is TSC thinking? You were told by someone that this is someone who they consider to be at war with them. This has been on every alliance application I've ever filled out in 6 years in CN (Granted that's like 4 applications ever) "Are you currently at war with another alliance or on their ZI list"... I just don't see why there had to be any democratic process. Sengoku is in a much more advantageous position. Conversation should literally have gone like this "Hey your guy you just accepted is actually still at war with Sengoku" "Well we thought he was okay. What would it take for him to not be at war with Sengoku anymore? Can we work something out" "These are my terms" "works for me"... or maybe you negotiate something back. Who knows. As for how the conversation should have gone, I agree 100%, but Alex didn't seem to want to try very hard and Auctor clearly wasn't going to let Mic go, or at least he implied that no other conclusion other than Mic continuing to get beat up long term was satisfactory. You are incorrect about the application part though, the standard question is "are you in any active wars?" and "are you any any other alliances ZI/PZI list/do you have any outstanding debt to another alliance/et cetera?" Mic was not in any active wars, as far as I am aware nations can only war against other nations, not against alliances. Mic was not on a ZI list, Sengoku has no reason to want to go after him as an individual, he was just part of an alliance they were at war with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Auctor said: What does LC have against DBDC, anyway? LC has nothing against DBDC. And as a Doombird I have nothing against DBDC, I'm just stating facts. DBDC can't take out Oculus and doesn't want to, so any Oculus/DBDC war would be Oculus firing the first shot. And given Oculus's upper tier you could easily absord the damage from DBDC like you did wih Bones, Bean, Gator, and the rest of Mongols. Might sting for a bit but it can be done, Oculus has the stats for it. I'm just stating facts here. Not even DBDC could stop Oculus at this point. Not saying they'd want to, but they lack the ability to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auctor Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 Oh I didn't mean just you. Haflinger seems to want us to attack them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 1 hour ago, autosave36 said: Listen, I am long since retired. I have launched a token attack on Walsh, got bored with that and went back to plucking potatoes in the Republic of Joe. I really have no dog in the fight. I wish Sengoku well because I helped found it, and I have a lot of friends there. I'll always be on the AA as long as I'm in this realm. But really I'm pretty impartial here. My main thought is what is TSC thinking? You were told by someone that this is someone who they consider to be at war with them. This has been on every alliance application I've ever filled out in 6 years in CN (Granted that's like 4 applications ever) "Are you currently at war with another alliance or on their ZI list"... I just don't see why there had to be any democratic process. Sengoku is in a much more advantageous position. Conversation should literally have gone like this "Hey your guy you just accepted is actually still at war with Sengoku" "Well we thought he was okay. What would it take for him to not be at war with Sengoku anymore? Can we work something out" "These are my terms" "works for me"... or maybe you negotiate something back. Who knows. That might have worked if Oculus was willing to discuss peace terms. They are not because they aren't done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 Just now, Auctor said: Oh I didn't mean just you. Haflinger seems to want us to attack them. Well that would be silly. You haven't attacked any DBDC allies yet. Allies of DBDC allies, yes, but not direct DBDC allies because most of the remaining DBDC allies are in Oculus. There is no ill will to Oculus in DBDC, so for a war to break out between Oculus and DBDC it would have to be initiated by Oculus. And to be honest, you have the stats to defeat DBDC if you wanted to. DBDC, and the rest of the non Oculus alliances left's, upper tiers only exist if you want them to. That includes DBDC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walshington Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 10 hours ago, autosave36 said: Listen, I am long since retired. I have launched a token attack on Walsh, got bored with that and went back to plucking potatoes in the Republic of Joe. Good times. For those who missed our epic clash: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auctor Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 10 hours ago, Caliph said: Well that would be silly. You haven't attacked any DBDC allies yet. Allies of DBDC allies, yes, but not direct DBDC allies because most of the remaining DBDC allies are in Oculus. There is no ill will to Oculus in DBDC, so for a war to break out between Oculus and DBDC it would have to be initiated by Oculus. And to be honest, you have the stats to defeat DBDC if you wanted to. DBDC, and the rest of the non Oculus alliances left's, upper tiers only exist if you want them to. That includes DBDC. That doesn't answer my question at all. Go back and try again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexio15 Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 21 hours ago, Auctor said: TSC's commitment to democracy didn't extend to things like accepting nations at war with us or subsequently declaring war on us, so that narrative can drop dead. That narrative drops dead when alliances in this game stop using it. So don't play that card as you ourself said you use it. Extend the day needed to others to use it as well. But that must have been so hard to wait a day and get the member or the conclusion you needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 5 hours ago, Auctor said: That doesn't answer my question at all. Go back and try again? I didn't see a question from you directed at me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auctor Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 20 minutes ago, Alexio15 said: That narrative drops dead when alliances in this game stop using it. So don't play that card as you ourself said you use it. Extend the day needed to others to use it as well. But that must have been so hard to wait a day and get the member or the conclusion you needed. We did wait a day. Turns out it was a day longer than we should have bothered to wait and TSC had their minds made up already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 Voting democracy doesn't work. This OP is a good example why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hitchcock Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 1 minute ago, Immortan Junka said: Voting democracy doesn't work. This OP is a good example why. "'Tyranny' is when the people are afraid of their government. 'Freedom' is when the government is afraid of its people" Vote Hardin, a senator for the brown sphere, not like the SNX reject. also, per OP. I have always liked TSC, I wished they would've dug deeper into the conflict before voting, but whatevs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 1 minute ago, Lord Hitchcock said: "'Tyranny' is when the people are afraid of their government. 'Freedom' is when the government is afraid of its people" Vote Hardin, a senator for the brown sphere, not like the SNX reject. also, per OP. I have always liked TSC, I wished they would've dug deeper into the conflict before voting, but whatevs. You casually insult the Imperium when we are the ones that give President Hardin a platform to campaign for a Senate seat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 15 hours ago, Auctor said: Oh I didn't mean just you. Haflinger seems to want us to attack them. No, I was joking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shavar Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 Well my mind wasn't made up, it would have been nice to find out why Mic left his old alliance while at war.. but seeing the fire flying makes that a mute point and we cant just sit back and take a whipping without at least throwing a few punches ourselves. Anyway ... Here's to glowing fish and higher casualty counts ... oh yeah hi to all of my friends in Sangoku you guys have taught me alot about this world and there is no better people to fight then people you know. o/Sandstorm plus the first round of beer is on President SO when this clears out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 It think we have a triple optional treaty with TSC...... I've been begging for war for months. Maybe I can get GATO to declare on Auctor for fun and bring CnG too just so we can really cluster$%&@ everything... Nah.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auctor Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 1 hour ago, magicninja said: It think we have a triple optional treaty with TSC...... I've been begging for war for months. Maybe I can get GATO to declare on Auctor for fun and bring CnG too just so we can really cluster$%&@ everything... Nah.... Move fast - I'm at low nukes right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inferno Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 In summary, as Dark Pope of the Mighty Grämlins, I Inferno of Ariana, hereby declare a state of active war with "The Sandstorm Confederacy" in suppor of our beloved brothers Sengoku. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kream Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 I been against this war from the start and see there CB as more then valid. We should of addressed this way differently but i also see them as irrational and petty for declaring on our allies for no reason. Just my 2 cents see how many licks to the end...Be bullies we like birds especially humming birds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peonage Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 I'm starting to become confused on what is going on and who is warring each other. I liked it better under my rock! Either way, I think for a lot of people (I'm assuming, obviously) that it's nice to finally have some action instead of just watching the numbers grow while the population dwindles. Let's just enjoy the fireworks and snuggle when it's over! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted July 7, 2016 Report Share Posted July 7, 2016 (edited) 'Can everyone please pause the global war so we can go vote???' I think that's a legitimate right earned under the Post-Karma Gold Standards(tm) . Edited July 7, 2016 by shahenshah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petro Posted July 8, 2016 Report Share Posted July 8, 2016 On 7/5/2016 at 10:21 AM, shavar said: it would have been nice to find out why Mic left his old alliance while at war.. So TSC was aware that Mic's former alliance was at war with Oculus? I'm confused with all the conflicting statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted July 8, 2016 Report Share Posted July 8, 2016 4 hours ago, shahenshah said: 'Can everyone please pause the global war so we can go vote???' I think that's a legitimate right earned under the Post-Karma Gold Standards(tm) . One reason why a full democracy just does not work here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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