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Never Say Never Again


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8 hours ago, Vladimir Poutine said:

I was not upset when Polar signed with NG. Instead I saw it as a prudent, political move. They saw Doom as the biggest threat to their security (and justifiably so), so they signed with an Oculus alliance in order to secure their position.

 

They sold out when they signed with Pacifica. That is what infuriated me and has caused me to nearly double my post count in the last few hours.

 

I don't see how signing with NPO is all that bad, from my point of view signing with TOP back in time was 100x worse than it. After that nothing shocks me anymore. I'd love to see Random's opinion about it though.

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1 hour ago, Vladimir Poutine said:

Well that's all I needed to hear. Polaris has betrayed itself. And it is all because of you. How does it feel to have brought two alliances to their knees, Grub?

 

I am glad you have now reached a judgement.  Given you are completely clueless I feel very comfortable knowing that this treaty is exactly what we want.   Polaris can not betray itself BTW, it exists to serve itself, not you, your memories or your fantasies.

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1 minute ago, AlmightyGrub said:

 

I am glad you have now reached a judgement.  Given you are completely clueless I feel very comfortable knowing that this treaty is exactly what we want.   Polaris can not betray itself BTW, it exists to serve itself, not you, your memories or your fantasies.

If this is exactly what you want, I can only imagine what sponge, Ivan, ski, z, KP, Penguin, GE, DA, and countless numbers of your own members and your former members think of you right now.

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3 minutes ago, Vladimir Poutine said:

If this is exactly what you want, I can only imagine what sponge, Ivan, ski, z, KP, Penguin, GE, DA, and countless numbers of your own members and your former members think of you right now.

 

I can tell you that Master Holton is pretty disgusted

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Just now, Vladimir Poutine said:

If this is exactly what you want, I can only imagine what sponge, Ivan, ski, z, KP, Penguin, GE, DA, and countless numbers of your own members and your former members think of you right now.

 

This is the clearest thing you have ever said, you can only imagine.   Some of those people are completely irrelevant to Polaris, having been gone longer than they were ever in the alliance to start with, others viewed and approved the treaty, one even signed.  Keep trying though, eventually you might convince yourself you know what is best for yourself let alone anyone else.

 

 

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Hey merger, why does it bother you so much? People like you and me moved on from Polaris. If you wish to steer the ship, go back, run for council, speak up as one of the BR. You know the drill.

 

I can understand that maybe you still feel a fondness for polar, like any of us who are polars even if not polars. Even so, it is not really kosher to meddle now, is it?

Edited by Helbrecht
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2 hours ago, Neo Uruk said:

well, here is the difference: merger is being a giant nerd, and you are not.

Nah, having worked with him during our joint run at Polar at minitru, i have a healthy regard for merger.  He aint a nerd. He is good at his job and a super member.

Edited by Helbrecht
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The sense of entitlement people have about alliances they are not in and do not do productive things for is objectively the worst trend CN has to offer.

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15 minutes ago, Auctor said:

The sense of entitlement people have about alliances they are not in and do not do productive things for is objectively the worst trend CN has to offer.

People caring is a good thing. If more people did that, this would be a much more fun and interesting place. 

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23 hours ago, AlmightyGrub said:

 

Signing with Pacifica has changed nothing in reality, our treaty with NG was sufficient if our goal was to be prudent re DOOM. We signed with the NPO because we wanted to, because after years of being hostile over very old issues, the leaderships of both alliances decided that enough was enough.  What we share in common is far more than what divides us, and the things that divide us pale into insignificance when faced with what this world has become.

 

You can be upset all you like, you left Polaris for a different vibe and that was your right.  It is our right however to do as we please with our FA as directed by our Emperor, the fact it upsets people mean it is probably a good idea.  Polar has never sought to rule the world, but we also have a place in it.  Our determination is that it should be alongside a rampant Pacifica not dying for a cause we don't support, believe in or give a rat's about.  You hold onto whatever you like, we have made our choices and I am very comfortable with them.

 

My issue with you is not that you have changed Polars' fundamental sphere (in fact I would applaud it as a long overdue move) but that you have allowed public perception to influence your posting too much. Your apparent need to appease a handful of ex-Polars has allowed much more insight into Polars potential goals than you should ever allow. 

 

The bolded part above, the reference to Randoms pragmatic reply as well as your post about this treaty being what you want/Polar not being able to betray itself paints a very clear picture that Polar is not in looking towards a Doom war. It takes half a brain to realize which potential wars remain even without insider knowledge. 

 

For one like myself who has no mentioned insider knowledge, it only brings about the question why aren't the other main players involved in this and which one of them should be scared of becoming the next invicta/MI6 or at the very least insulted for not being invited to the inner decision making table. Is there any life in Umb, IRON, VE, DT, RnR, NATO, ODN that is actually thinking about what war Polar could be talking about if not a potential Doom one (or at least after said Doom one)?  

 

 

* = IC, not OOC. OOC I wish more would allow this sort of public posting allowed analysis to happen.  

 

1 hour ago, Auctor said:

The sense of entitlement people have about alliances they are not in and do not do productive things for is objectively the worst trend CN has to offer.

 

The fact that alliances without ideals who flip flop at the drop of a hat are not just allowed to exist, but flourish, is the worst trend CN has to offer. 

 

47 minutes ago, Van Hoo III said:

 

"What does Hoo think about this?" most certainly does though, right? ... RIGHT!?!?! ...

 

I sense that you are joking, however I feel it needs to be said for others: If your ally does not take your thoughts into consideration then maybe you should not be allied to them. 

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56 minutes ago, Unknown Smurf said:

 

My issue with you is not that you have changed Polars' fundamental sphere (in fact I would applaud it as a long overdue move) but that you have allowed public perception to influence your posting too much. Your apparent need to appease a handful of ex-Polars has allowed much more insight into Polars potential goals than you should ever allow. 

 

The bolded part above, the reference to Randoms pragmatic reply as well as your post about this treaty being what you want/Polar not being able to betray itself paints a very clear picture that Polar is not in looking towards a Doom war. It takes half a brain to realize which potential wars remain even without insider knowledge. 

 

For one like myself who has no mentioned insider knowledge, it only brings about the question why aren't the other main players involved in this and which one of them should be scared of becoming the next invicta/MI6 or at the very least insulted for not being invited to the inner decision making table. Is there any life in Umb, IRON, VE, DT, RnR, NATO, ODN that is actually thinking about what war Polar could be talking about if not a potential Doom one (or at least after said Doom one)?  

I don't know which one of us is crazy, here, but it's one of us. I know it.

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1 hour ago, Unknown Smurf said:

 

 

 

 

I sense that you are joking, however I feel it needs to be said for others: If your ally does not take your thoughts into consideration then maybe you should not be allied to them. 

 

Well, of course I'm joking. That does it. More emotes from me from now on. ;)

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1 hour ago, Unknown Smurf said:

 

My issue with you is not that you have changed Polars' fundamental sphere (in fact I would applaud it as a long overdue move) but that you have allowed public perception to influence your posting too much. Your apparent need to appease a handful of ex-Polars has allowed much more insight into Polars potential goals than you should ever allow. 

 

The bolded part above, the reference to Randoms pragmatic reply as well as your post about this treaty being what you want/Polar not being able to betray itself paints a very clear picture that Polar is not in looking towards a Doom war. It takes half a brain to realize which potential wars remain even without insider knowledge. 

 

For one like myself who has no mentioned insider knowledge, it only brings about the question why aren't the other main players involved in this and which one of them should be scared of becoming the next invicta/MI6 or at the very least insulted for not being invited to the inner decision making table. Is there any life in Umb, IRON, VE, DT, RnR, NATO, ODN that is actually thinking about what war Polar could be talking about if not a potential Doom one (or at least after said Doom one)?  

 

 

* = IC, not OOC. OOC I wish more would allow this sort of public posting allowed analysis to happen.  

 

 

 

An interesting analysis to be sure, but when you make assumptions right at the beginning that are patently false then follow those assumptions to the next assumption it will also be patently false which makes your conclusion idiotic by the time you get there. Go back to the beginning, place less emphasis on your initial thought bubble and then life makes so much more sense. I don't deny Polaris has made some changes, but they are hardly surprises to anyone who has been actually paying attention, the reality is most people don't pay any at all.

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5 hours ago, AlmightyGrub said:

 

An interesting analysis to be sure, but when you make assumptions right at the beginning that are patently false then follow those assumptions to the next assumption it will also be patently false which makes your conclusion idiotic by the time you get there. Go back to the beginning, place less emphasis on your initial thought bubble and then life makes so much more sense. I don't deny Polaris has made some changes, but they are hardly surprises to anyone who has been actually paying attention, the reality is most people don't pay any at all.

 

The assumption that Pacifica (and to a lesser extent NG) would bring Polar (or any alliance) into it's fold for anything beyond political gain is not patently false; given the Digiterra's well documented history I daresay it's all but fact. At the very least one would see it's more than just hearsay. If Pacifica and Polar had truly just buried the hatchet (as you have done so basically 2 years ago) the status quo would remain and Pacifica would just not actively plot against Polaris (I'd say vice versa but implying Polar had the ability to ever do so is laughable).

 

If it was simply a renewal of friendship at most a NAP would be signed. A military treaty such as this given the motivations and foresight of the governments involved all but confirms my analysis. Pacifica either sees a need to either give itself political leverage in Oculus or forsees a world where Oculus no longer exists. 

 

The attack on Invicta follows perfectly in line with this narrative. It is Pacificas MO to remove potential threats well before they even realize they are a threat. Removing them (and potentially Sparta) guarantees that any threat to Pacifica (VE, Umb, whoever) has no potential coalition ever. Couple that with their treaty of Polar puts that you in the exact same position Polar was in before the OoO was originally cancelled: Pacificas pawn. Or maybe you even see yourself as a Knight, Queen or even King -- it is irrelevant. The hand of Pacifica still guides you.

 

Quote

[The Order] exists to serve itself, not you, your memories or your fantasies.

 

 

Edited by Unknown Smurf
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You're absolutely right, Smurf. I can confirm that behind closed doors, Polar still has great disdain for Pacifica. They simply got closer to them for political gain and nothing more. You can rest sure that there's absolutely 0 trust or mutual friendship in this treaty.

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