The Zigur Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 Supernova X being "aggressive" isn't true either, out of five recent wars, only one was offensive (November Third Operation) while the rest were either entering to defend an ally or being directly attacked ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 3 hours ago, White Chocolate said: Kashmir and Doom Squad/Doom Kingdom have been allies since long before the Doom War. In fact, I knew the people at Kashmir when I was the leader of The Javahouse League (who merged with Anarchy Inc. to become Last Call). That is how I met Lord Hershey, as Doom Squad was also allied to Kashmir at the time. So my friendship with Kashmir actually predates my involvement with doomsphere. Most people had not ever heard of tJL, so it was hardly an alliance anyone would treaty just to be free to attack whoever they want. I don't believe Doom Squad was that well known at the time either. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that what motivated Kashmir to remain as allies to Doom Kingdom was friendship and had nothing to do with realpolitik considerations. At our largest, Doom Kingdom was around fifty members. Hardly a powerhouse on our own. In fact, If a group wants to ally with an alliance that could give the group cover to do as they pleased as you are suggesting above regarding Kashmir, look to those alliances in Oculus. I am also not saying there is anything wrong with taking into account the strength and political standing of an alliance when deciding who to seek a treaty relationship with. What I am saying is that in the case of Kashmir, I have no doubt that wasn't their interest.. For us and our allies it was about hitting Kashmir back. I think the initial reason matters more than what extra side motivations people helping might have had, but this was never about grudges toward DK or Last Call. Kashmir and COBRA were attacking LN in an aggressive war before I had discussed support with our allies. Kashmir was the aggressor and brought allies against us before we got help. Kashmir portraying this as them getting attacked in order to get to you might be how they would want to portray it to get support, but really it had nothing to do with you guys & it was soley because of their own actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 17 hours ago, Thrash said: Were the people who joined AAs to get in on the winning side of the curbstomp required to stay? Don't be silly, terms are for the ones on the losing side. The ones on the winning side are free to go wherever they want post war with no reprocussions, since even talk smack about Oculus earns an entire AA a beat down as per Oculus now a days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, Caliph said: Don't be silly, terms are for the ones on the losing side. The ones on the winning side are free to go wherever they want post war with no reprocussions, since even talk smack about Oculus earns an entire AA a beat down as per Oculus now a days. I would disagree with that, as I could be portrayed as critical of Oculus and have yet to get beatdown, but I was also critical of Doom as well, most of the people left on this planet suck also. Edited June 2, 2016 by Mogar 5am posting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Buscemi Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 20 hours ago, Chimaera said: Watch out man, I don't think you're allowed to say anything remotely resembling the truth around here. Are you saying you are a good judge of what honesty looks like? That would shock me if you are making that claim, truthfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 1 hour ago, Steve Buscemi said: Are you saying you are a good judge of what honesty looks like? That would shock me if you are making that claim, truthfully. I suppose 'honesty' in this world is simply a matter of perspective anyway. The truth as I see it is nowhere near the truth as you see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auctor Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 Sure, no one can hold you to standards of veracity if you're delusional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrash Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 6 hours ago, Caliph said: Don't be silly, terms are for the ones on the losing side. The ones on the winning side are free to go wherever they want post war with no reprocussions, since even talk smack about Oculus earns an entire AA a beat down as per Oculus now a days. That's what I'm aiming for. Let them do another beatdown then be left with just themselves or the neutrals to fight. There's not much competition left, wish they'd just get it over with, so I'd have to stop checking in and thinking there's some kind of future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Chocolate Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 12 hours ago, Sephiroth said: For us and our allies it was about hitting Kashmir back. It's the Methrage Defense Force war. I'm not arguing the reason for the war. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, what actually happened went fine. Last Call seemed to enjoy themselves and have become active again, while Kashmir got a good work out and a few matters to discuss as an alliance that arguable should be discussed. You clearly have enjoyed yourself. It's all good. In this particular situation from my perspective, the actual story is not the war that happened, but what was avoided. Congratulations on your victory, Sephiroth. 12 hours ago, Sephiroth said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 I think it's funny how quickly Methrage went from being the aggrieved party to threatening more wars of aggression once his new friends showed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistressMisfit Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 8 minutes ago, White Chocolate said: It's the Methrage Defense Force war. I'm not arguing the reason for the war. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, what actually happened went fine. Last Call seemed to enjoy themselves and have become active again, while Kashmir got a good work out and a few matters to discuss as an alliance that arguable should be discussed. You clearly have enjoyed yourself. It's all good. In this particular situation from my perspective, the actual story is not the war that happened, but what was avoided. Congratulations on your victory, Sephiroth. This is very true as in all of it is true. Last Call and Pirates of the Parrot Order have shown themselves to be selfless and incredible allies. Kashmir has made some sharp and needed changes internally. Really, it was a huge help to us as an alliance. So yeah, thanks, Sephiroth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanth Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 And it brought back SRA and Walsh so yeah, good job meth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walshington Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, Xanth said: And it brought back SRA and Walsh so yeah, good job meth. Which, if we are going to be completely forthright, this was of course Caustic's long game from the beginning. He'll never admit to this, of course -- which, as an OWF regular, I will immediately and with a straight face cite as evidence for its complete and utter veracity. Well played, Caustic -- well played. Edited June 2, 2016 by Walshington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabcat Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 On 31/05/2016 at 7:04 AM, Sephiroth said: Thank you to everyone who fought beside us or who countered those who attacked others. Even if I wasn't involved with deciding the terms, I agree with the terms and think they are fair. Nice job to everyone involved. It was a pleasure fighting alongside all of you. I feel sorry for you, genuinely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) 11 hours ago, White Chocolate said: Congratulations on your victory, Sephiroth. Thank you. 10 hours ago, MistressMisfit said: Kashmir has made some sharp and needed changes internally. Really, it was a huge help to us as an alliance. So yeah, thanks, Sephiroth. I didn't except a thank you from Kashmir, but its good to hear you guys are making positive changes as a result & your positive attitude gives me hope this will be the last war we will need to fight. Good luck with the changes. 10 hours ago, Xanth said: And it brought back SRA and Walsh so yeah, good job meth. Even if I had nothing to do with it, many have assumed me responsible for Walsh's disappearance. Although that has never been true & its nice to have him back to take care of the wiki. I guess all is good between us now, so good luck. 6 hours ago, Sabcat said: I feel sorry for you, genuinely. We're more than double our member count than when the war started & my nation much bigger, so I'm not sure why you feel sorry for me. We won & have more than doubled in size. So you can save your sympathy for someone else. Edited June 3, 2016 by Sephiroth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Buscemi Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 21 hours ago, Chimaera said: I suppose 'honesty' in this world is simply a matter of perspective anyway. The truth as I see it is nowhere near the truth as you see it. Hey man, why don't you querry me anymore? I miss those days, like when you told me that Oculus was going to backstab IRON. Or was that just backroom "badmouthing" and "plotting"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernkastel Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 Congrats on peace and that sort of stuff. Great terms, didn't read, 10/10, who has time for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walshington Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 12 hours ago, Sephiroth said: Even if I had nothing to do with it, many have assumed me responsible for Walsh's disappearance. Although that has never been true & its nice to have him back to take care of the wiki. I guess all is good between us now, so good luck. I haven't heard anyone blame you for my disappearance, but if they have, let me dispel that right here: the only entity responsible for Walsh the Beloved's disappearance is Walsh the Beloved. Although I'd submit my role as Caustic's conscience is every bit as important as my "poor man's Rogal Dorn" role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caustic Posted June 4, 2016 Report Share Posted June 4, 2016 Good thing I never listed to that pesky voice anyway right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duderonomy Posted June 4, 2016 Report Share Posted June 4, 2016 15 hours ago, Walshington said: I haven't heard anyone blame you for my disappearance, but if they have, let me dispel that right here: the only entity responsible for Walsh the Beloved's disappearance is Walsh the Beloved. Although I'd submit my role as Caustic's conscience is every bit as important as my "poor man's Rogal Dorn" role. If you're looking for work, I think Sir William needs your services as a conscience more than Caustic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devialance Posted June 6, 2016 Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 On 5/30/2016 at 5:04 AM, White Chocolate said: What a relief! I was concerned that all the individuals who joined Last Call after Doom Kingdom disbanded would be accused of acting honorably... "friends over infra" generally being considered "honorable." Thankfully, this should take care of anyone accusing me of teaching the DK boys and girls anything close to honor. I would also like to thank the "alliances at war" for including #3 above. I agree entirely. My guess is that the people who went over there do as well. It has nothing to do with "honor" mind you, but about being invited back for the next big party. If one gets the benefits of a wild and crazy bar fight, one should stick around and help clean up. Otherwise why would anyone invite the person to the next one? ------------------------------------------------------------- Congrats on peace Last Call and Kashmir. Thanks to everyone for making the war one of reasonable length. Well lets face it, if they said anyone from DK acted honorably, then these terms would be more !@#$%^&* than they already are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devialance Posted June 6, 2016 Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 On 6/2/2016 at 6:39 PM, White Chocolate said: It's the Methrage Defense Force war. I'm not arguing the reason for the war. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, what actually happened went fine. Last Call seemed to enjoy themselves and have become active again, while Kashmir got a good work out and a few matters to discuss as an alliance that arguable should be discussed. You clearly have enjoyed yourself. It's all good. In this particular situation from my perspective, the actual story is not the war that happened, but what was avoided. Congratulations on your victory, Sephiroth. You do know Sephiroth didnt win !@#$, the only reason he has any claim to winning is he was lucky enough to fall on the side of NpO and others, lets face it people if it was simply down to LN and that band of well no nice words for them, they would all be done by now, We all know that methrage will always and i mean always go for targets that has less support hoping someone bigger will come in and bail him out, to say he won anything is a simple lie in truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walshington Posted June 6, 2016 Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 (edited) 12 hours ago, Devialance said: You do know Sephiroth didnt win !@#$, the only reason he has any claim to winning is he was lucky enough to fall on the side of NpO and others, lets face it people if it was simply down to LN and that band of well no nice words for them, they would all be done by now, We all know that methrage will always and i mean always go for targets that has less support hoping someone bigger will come in and bail him out, to say he won anything is a simple lie in truth I would disagree. I mean, you're right in that he was bailed out in this war by Oculus and friends and thus was able to legitimately claim victory in this war (which, to his credit, I haven't seen him really crowing about on the OWF), I don't think he would have been "done" if Oculus hadn't entered. On Planet Bob, there is no occupation of defeated nations or alliances, and thus while one can be defeated militarily, mathematically, and in every other way, if one has the will to simply not surrender no matter what the circumstances, ultimate defeat can be avoided. Proven by Rukunu in his 8 year war against GOONs, Meth has made this strategy his stock in trade: never admit defeat. Not a recipe for alliance growth, but one for survival. I would also opine that Meth doesn't simply attack targets that have less support. His wars are largely driven by slights (or perceived) slights against him, which seem to happen just as often against larger alliances than smaller alliances. I don't believe alliance size enters into his calculus when deciding to go to war or not, nor does it inform his diplomatic efforts. I'm not painting him as a hero, here -- due to the lack of growth in his alliance, he really doesn't risk much, and at the levels he fights at, alliance size isn't as much of a factor as it is with other alliances. He is fully wondered, typically fighting much weaker nations, and has external aid sources -- it operates as more more of an insurgency than an alliance war. His allies typically operate in the same milieu. They don't typically win wars against larger opponents, but rather drag things on long enough that people tire of the effort it takes to deal with them and keep them down. A long way to say that while you can criticize Meth for a variety of things, only attacking alliances that aren't connected is probably not one of them. Edited June 6, 2016 by Walshington grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted June 6, 2016 Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 13 minutes ago, Walshington said: words Anyone claiming his actions resulted in a military victory for his side is lying. They were losing until the whole of Oculus entered and beat the other side down. He had nothing to do with it. Oculus just wanted to swing their massive &#$@ around and found a willing Meth to lap it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walshington Posted June 6, 2016 Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 26 minutes ago, Caliph said: Anyone claiming his actions resulted in a military victory for his side is lying. They were losing until the whole of Oculus entered and beat the other side down. He had nothing to do with it. Oculus just wanted to swing their massive &#$@ around and found a willing Meth to lap it up. That is a more... frank restating of my second sentence, but TBH I haven't heard anyone (on the OWF, anyway) claim that anything else is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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