The Zigur Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) "Having a reason" does not make a rogue legitimate, most of the time a rogue has a reason... usually some perceived grudge... that motivates them to attack an established alliance. What defines a rogue is the fact that they are not acting as a member of a legitimate alliance in an alliance vs alliance war, and intend to aggressively disrupt the stability and growth of an alliance during peacetime in a conflict that cannot be won. A legitimate alliance being one that is focused on growth, stability, and lifting its members above the state of nature. A rogue does not seek to grow or be a part of the world community when attacking an alliance and is an enemy of all alliances... a rogue can attack any alliance after all according to their personal whims and justifications, only being held to account by the defensive efforts of the alliance under attack. This definition is concrete and consistent and has always remained the same for me (I said the same thing during multilateral negotiations on the GATO forums). Methrage's definition of rogue, on the other hand, depends on whether he likes the rogue and/or the rogues target alliance. I think this is hypocritical because Methrage has "instigated" Kashmir plenty in the past and cried rivers when Jack Layton attacked him during a back collect. Edited June 2, 2016 by Immortan Junka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 4 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said: A rogue does not seek to grow Sounds like you ever since we peaced out. Not bothering to collect taxes or grow at all, as you sat there trying to provoke a war for over a month as we were fighting Kashmir. Despite being at war over the last month, my nation is much bigger than yours despite having peace as we fought. That you claimed to message everyone you thought we had some connection to after the rebel did a spy op after being spied on leaves me little doubt that if you felt you had any support we would be at war already. It wasn't until you realized the LPC wasn't shrinking & that was wishful thinking on your part suddenly you started claiming we would be bullying you if we attacked you in response to your public declaration of being the "leading" voice against the LPC. If you're going to poke someone with a stick for over a month when they're busy fighting someone else, its lame to suddenly preemptively play the victim card by calling those you're provoking bullies just in case we decided to attack. As far as I'm concerned, as soon as you played that card; we won without needing to fight and you basically admitted defeat ahead of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hitchcock Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 3 minutes ago, Sephiroth said: Sounds like you ever since we peaced out. Not bothering to collect taxes or grow at all, as you sat there trying to provoke a war for over a month as we were fighting Kashmir. Despite being at war over the last month, my nation is much bigger than yours despite having peace as we fought. That you claimed to message everyone you thought we had some connection to after the rebel did a spy op after being spied on leaves me little doubt that if you felt you had any support we would be at war already. It wasn't until you realized the LPC wasn't shrinking & that was wishful thinking on your part suddenly you started claiming we would be bullying you if we attacked you in response to your public declaration of being the "leading" voice against the LPC. If you're going to poke someone with a stick for over a month when they're busy fighting someone else, its lame to suddenly preemptively play the victim card by calling those you're provoking bullies just in case we decided to attack. As far as I'm concerned, as soon as you played that card; we won without needing to fight and you basically admitted defeat ahead of time. This is spot on. Junka calls methrage a rouge for being small, yet methrage is still bigger. Com'on Junka, think more before you try to propaganda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) I stay down here to protect alot of new nations who join our alliance and desire to grow through our prosperous 18/300 tech dealing. This naturally draws the attention of predatory raiders who envy our prosperity that we created through blood sweat and tears, and the foresight of playing a low tier security role reveals itself everytime someone from LPCN attacks us. Going rogue is a political action designed to harass, destabilize and try to force new nations from this world. This is why the lower tier of many alliances is completely nonexistent. However the Imperium will continue to defend new nations against the tyranny imposed by aggressive drop-downs with no future of prosperity and growth. As a drop down, what separates myself from those like The Rebel? I am not a wolf, I am a sheepdog. Edited June 2, 2016 by Immortan Junka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted June 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 28 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said: "Having a reason" does not make a rogue legitimate, most of the time a rogue has a reason... usually some perceived grudge... that motivates them to attack an established alliance. The world police offers a bargin plea and will drop the charges of human trafficking if: Kylo Ren for crimes of aid theft is charged with a 54 million court fine, if not paid his alliance will be held complicate in his crime and prosecuted by the world police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 You had SNX declare on me and the rebel when we were fighting the Rogue GOONS. So your past military support of rogues makes you a hypocrite. You support rogues when they serve your purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 4 minutes ago, Sephiroth said: You had SNX declare on me and the rebel when we were fighting the Rogue GOONS. So your past military support of rogues makes you a hypocrite. You support rogues when they serve your purpose. The only reason this happened was because you declared (Public Trial of Immortan Junka) that you have jurisdiction over Supernova X, and LPCN member Animalz tried to enforce your claim by agggressively attacking us. At that point we rightly engaged all LPCN combatants as part of the War on Terror, in defense of our sovereignty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 Just now, Immortan Junka said: The only reason this happened was because you declared (Public Trial of Immortan Junka) that you have jurisdiction over Supernova X, and LPCN member Animalz tried to enforce your claim by agggressively attacking us. At that point we rightly engaged all LPCN combatants as part of the War on Terror, in defense of our sovereignty. I gave you a chance to defend your actions on breaking a peace agreement, you responded by attacking. I never claimed jurisdiction, I just gave good advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 You declared me "enemy of LPCN," attempted to coup my government, declared that you should be made Tyrant of Supernova X, and had Animalz attack us when I refused your demands. You claim that fighting back was madness and blasphemy against your "libertarianism." Madness? This is SNX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexio15 Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 Hands up if you no longer care... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 8 hours ago, Alexio15 said: Hands up if you no longer care... You say that now, just wait till SNX is forced off of brown team... guess who will be on the chopping block next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said: You say that now, just wait till SNX is forced off of brown team... guess who will be on the chopping block next. We gave you white peace and forced no one off Brown. Yet since then you`ve made hundreds of posts puffing your chest at us, slandering us, claiming you can roll us, trying to interfere in our business, etc. I tried being nice with you, but you`ve based your entire political career leading SNX opposing us. We`ve made peace with Atlas and I thought you would have moved on after our last war. Although apparently you lack closure and you learned nothing from our last war. If you need another war for closure, I can make it happen. Otherwise I suggest you wipe our names from your vocabulary and find something else to obsess over. We`re for Brown unity and opposed to inner fighting on Brown, yet you insist on painting the whole LPC as SNX`s enemy every opportunity you get. You are making conflict a self fulfilling prophecy, since you're a light weight with a history of aggression against us & if you want a threat I'll make one for you. Keep talking about us and there will be war, direct any concerns via PM if your intention isn`t war. We`re not afraid of you and we're not afraid of you calling us a bully for hitting you when it's deserved. You`ve attacked LN over words said, so I see no moral issue with doing the same to SNX. Don't bother responding, just keep our names out of your mouth if you want to prove you're capable of not being our enemy. Edited June 3, 2016 by Sephiroth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) Methrage I have recently directed my foreign affairs chief to seek out better brown relations with you, but then you go ahead and cheer a nuke rogue attacking Supernova X in this thread. The last time I tried to have a serious conversation with you in IRC query you cut me off and said "this is boring." You do not hold your followers accountable, as evidenced by Franz's recent thread, but you expect me to hold my tongue. If you don't want me chastising their behavior in public you should do your job as leader and reign them in yourself, rather than applying a double standard, one in which consequences apply only to foreign leaders and not your own people. If you and Sir Kindle make ultimatums demanding that other alliances shut up, then you will never grow out of your constant cycles of wars and your members will never truly prosper. If you want friendly relations with Supernova X it's possible, but YOU have to repair the bridges burned and assure my members that you have no ill will towards them. All you need to do is fill out the embassy form (properly, without making a speech) and you can speak straight to my membership, but instead you constantly threaten us in public. Edited June 3, 2016 by Immortan Junka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) You were insisting on us doing you a favor, as you were trash talking us on the forum. You didn't seem to get the hint & kept insisting we should do you the favor despite your unwillingness to stop; so I got bored talking with you. Also when SNX was trying to vote up 2 Senators to push me out after we had peace, when I asked if SNX was willing to stop doing that, your immediate response was to point out you and a bunch of other SNX nuclear nations were sitting in the lower tier ready to attack us. So you started with the threats before anyone on our side and have only become more fanatical in your posting against. For SNX's own good, I suggest you stop provoking us. When you responded with threats when I asked if you would stop supporting non-SNX Senators to try pushing LPC Senators out, that wasn't a good sign. When after that you insisted on interfering with our wars & going on a frenzy when I didn't want to speak with you about it while you were trash talking on us on the forum non-stop was another bad sign for relations. You're the one who burned the bridges, there never would have been war between SNX and the LPC had you not attacked us; while conspiring to try weakening us. So its on you guys to try fixing bridges, I suggest you start by not giving us more reasons to see SNX as an enemy and try making peace with the rebel. Edited June 3, 2016 by Sephiroth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) If The Rebel wants peace he will need to register on our forums and appeal the Exterminatus sentence handed down to him by the Imperial Inquisition per Ordo Malleus and Ordo Xenos. This is standard procedure for all nuke rogues. Edited June 3, 2016 by Immortan Junka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hitchcock Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 Don't do it Rebel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexio15 Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 These threads always fail to deliver. As for the Atlas being next on the chopping block I find that you tend to exist peacefully with LPC when you're not trying to roll them constantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 8 minutes ago, Alexio15 said: These threads always fail to deliver. As for the Atlas being next on the chopping block I find that you tend to exist peacefully with LPC when you're not trying to roll them constantly. SNX trying to roll Sephiroth would be pointless, it's never profitable to take on a nation with 100 improvements and 30 wonders in the lower tier, and only leads to huge headaches from an organizational perspective. So we have zero incentive to "roll" him. Regardless Atlas only has seven nations under 20,000 NS, while SNX has thirty. That's classically Methrage's stomping grounds and with SNX being the biggest lower-tier alliance on brown (and a very productive one at that) we are a natural target for raiders looking to plunder "farmers," it's why we have to hold so many nukers down here as a deterrent. Also, brown nations are a source of votes so that's another resource to be coveted by others who desire such things. So I think it is correct for us to be wary of another predominately lower-tier construct on brown. Personally I would love to see LPCN becomes civilized and even participate in our interstellar tech program, but it's hard to see that happening when, for example, Sir Kindle threatens Oculus (bad relations with Oculus is the last thing we need). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted June 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 4 hours ago, Lord Hitchcock said: Don't do it Rebel! Well he will have to agree to pay 54 million for his alliance defending a aid thief. If he wants to negotiate the court fine, he knows where to find me. He likes to preach about morals and standards yet he harbours thiefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexio15 Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 4 hours ago, Immortan Junka said: SNX trying to roll Sephiroth would be pointless, it's never profitable to take on a nation with 100 improvements and 30 wonders in the lower tier, and only leads to huge headaches from an organizational perspective. So we have zero incentive to "roll" him. Regardless Atlas only has seven nations under 20,000 NS, while SNX has thirty. That's classically Methrage's stomping grounds and with SNX being the biggest lower-tier alliance on brown (and a very productive one at that) we are a natural target for raiders looking to plunder "farmers," it's why we have to hold so many nukers down here as a deterrent. Also, brown nations are a source of votes so that's another resource to be coveted by others who desire such things. So I think it is correct for us to be wary of another predominately lower-tier construct on brown. Personally I would love to see LPCN becomes civilized and even participate in our interstellar tech program, but it's hard to see that happening when, for example, Sir Kindle threatens Oculus (bad relations with Oculus is the last thing we need). Then why are you making so many threads about him and calling him and the rest of the LPC out at every turn you can. It's just stupid and counter productive to what you have just said. Again that's because my members choose to actually grow their nations and have a leader that doesn't keep getting them into pointless wars. You don't have to fight or even be wary of LPC hell GATO and TSC are in our ranges but you don't see me causing !@#$ with them. Because they are the same sort of ranges as us and because we are fearful. That is such a narrow minded answer. One that makes you seem like you want to fight them, it constantly has you on a aggressive stance with them. How you can't see that I don't know, hell I thought galerion at least would have spotted that. For brown nations they can and should be able to damn well vote for who they want to vote for. Say what you want about Methrage and his sanction thoughts and such. But you point out one time he hasn't voted negatively on a proposal to further his own advances. He hasn't he always votes for the good of the team. He's a stand up senator and one of the best on the brown team. Different people have different views on civilised and you should not try to inflict your views on others. Maybe why they don't agree with you and we get this !@#$ ton of threads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walshington Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 9 hours ago, Alexio15 said: I find that you tend to exist peacefully with LPC when you're not trying to roll them constantly. That is definitely a good start, but not all of LN's wars have been the result of someone trying to roll them. When he feels slighted, Meth can be quick to abandon diplomacy and pull the trigger on a DoW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, the rebel said: Well he will have to agree to pay 54 million for his alliance defending a aid thief. If he wants to negotiate the court fine, he knows where to find me. He likes to preach about morals and standards yet he harbours thiefs. If you had an issue with Kylo in the past that I was not aware of, you should have messaged me about it before attacking. Going rogue was a great way to ensure you never get the money you claim you are owed, since Kylo has been an upstanding member of the Imperium. I hope this is worth it, because just from destroy money spy ops alone you have lost more than $54 million and we are just getting started. 12 minutes ago, Walshington said: That is definitely a good start, but not all of LN's wars have been the result of someone trying to roll them. When he feels slighted, Meth can be quick to abandon diplomacy and pull the trigger on a DoW. That's my experience as well. Edited June 3, 2016 by Immortan Junka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted June 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Immortan Junka said: If you had an issue with Kylo in the past that I was not aware of, you should have messaged me about it before attacking. Going rogue was a great way to ensure you never get the money you claim you are owed, since Kylo has been an upstanding member of the Imperium. You knew exactly what he did as you took him in during that last war by whichever name you like to call it. So don't play the ignorance card but its nice to know you call people terrorists yet defend aid thiefs... You don't want that to get around when SNX relies on tech selling. But I wasn't expecting you to pay, because you don't two brain cells to rub together. Quote I hope this is worth it, because just from destroy money spy ops alone you have lost more than $54 million and we are just getting started. I count $30 million, but you have never been one to tell the truth have you Junka. Although losing money isn't going to make me lose any sleep. Edited June 3, 2016 by the rebel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 You got any proof? Because I will take the word of any Imperator over barbarian rogue scum like yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackatron Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 On 2 June 2016 at 7:36 PM, Alexio15 said: Hands up if you no longer care... The rulers of approximately 6,517 nations raise their hands... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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