The Zigur Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) Since the early years of our world, the political atmosphere has been oriented around the alliance sovereign... a person or institution entrusted by the collective will of an alliance affiliation to elevate the alliance above the state of nature (Chaos). In the state of nature, "there is no right or wrong, no universal morality, and no law; individual nations are free to do whatever they want and take whatever they desire." As can be seen on none and the vast barbarian enclaves of the lower-tier, individuals are totally consumed by the matter of survival, and are incapable of growing beyond a few thousand nation-strength. The alliance sovereign has, until recently, dominated the political landscape of Cybernations. It is "only a sovereign that can have the strength and authority to provide stability" within an alliance and enable it to reach the "heights of civilization." The alliance sovereign can take many forms; my own alliance is represented by autocratic democracy. Our world is unique because this fundamental political theory has ultimately manifested in the form of the global treaty web. The treaty web brings order to the worlds political developments, allowing the average nation to comprehend global relations formally established between alliance sovereigns. It is an empowering tool for the average nation, allowing him or her to "vote with feet" should their alliance sovereign fail in some manner. These treaties between sovereigns have provided the additional benefit of collaboration in defeating barbarian threats to growth and stability (rogues). For many years, color sanctions have been used against rogues. It became an additional incentive for nations to band together and become legitimate; sanctions are much less likely to be used against large alliances. But large alliances must act in a responsible manner to avoid being targeted by the rest of the global community. Thus, based on this basic political foundation, civilized norms have developed that are adhered to by most large alliances: That alliance members are free to leave during peacetime (assuming no debts). That alliance sovereigns coordinate to sanction rogues across color teams. That alliance members cede diplomatic and military authority to the alliance sovereign. That raiding of non-aligned nations should be restrained in nature. That alliance sovereigns do not claim jurisdiction over other alliances. All of these basic principles are rejected by Sephiroth aka Methrage and the LPCN: Sephiroth has claimed that leaving LPCN is "treason." Sephiroth started sanction wars to protect rogues sanctioned by other color teams. Sephiroth allows his members to threaten individual wars against other alliances. Animalz has pursued PZI against new nations that fight back against raids. Sephiroth claimed jurisdiction over Supernova X, which resulted in a two month war. While the LPCN was once considered a fringe movement, they have recently been supported by some large alliances from outside brown who have traditionally been considered mainstream in nature. The motivation of these powerful actors are not entirely clear; however, their enabling effect has pushed LPCN towards increasingly aggressive behavior. For several months, the Imperium of Supernova X has been the leading voice against LPCN on the brown team. As a result, our members have been rocked by numerous spy attacks in the low tier, threats of attack by individual LPCN members, coup attempts, "public trials," and militant agitation behind the scenes. Our members see Methrage and his people as a bully, but both sides have their own perspectives. I invite LPCN to put aside the saber rattling and discuss their policies like civilized men: Are LPCN alliance affiliations sovereign, or are they subordinate AAs per Sephiroth's "treason" doctrine? Is a movement that utilizes political violence against dissidents truly "libertarian?" What moral right does LPCN have to interfere with the ability of SNX, GATO, Atlas and others to sanction rogues on the brown team? Does the LPCN still claim court jurisdiction over Supernova X and other alliances? Hopefully this thread promotes enlightening discussion rather than continued threats and spy attacks as in the FCA threads. Edited May 24, 2016 by Immortan Junka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hitchcock Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 RIP Junka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowfanatic Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 Jesus... we all complain about these threads... but ffs, I can't look away. So umm... the one thing that stood out here... Quote For several months, the Imperium of Supernova X has been the leading voice against LPCN on the brown team. As a result, our members have been rocked by numerous spy attacks in the low tier, threats of attack by individual LPCN members, coup attempts, "public trials," and militant agitation behind the scenes. Have you possibly thought, if you weren't the "leading voice against LPCN" you might not be rocked by numerous spy attacks in the lower tier, or threats of attack by individual LPCN members? Just my two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hitchcock Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) Junka wasn't looking for a civil discussion with LPCN, the OPs only intention was to sling insults at them Edited May 24, 2016 by Lord Hitchcock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted May 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 5 minutes ago, gowfanatic said: Jesus... we all complain about these threads... but ffs, I can't look away. So umm... the one thing that stood out here... Have you possibly thought, if you weren't the "leading voice against LPCN" you might not be rocked by numerous spy attacks in the lower tier, or threats of attack by individual LPCN members? Just my two cents. One would think the "Libertarian Party of Cybernations" would be in favor of free political speech and not constantly violate the Non Aggression Principle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hitchcock Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said: One would think the "Libertarian Party of Cybernations" would be in favor of free political speech and not constantly violate the Non Aggression Principle. That's a fair assessment if you didn't try to sell bad snx propaganda along with it you'll like one of those damn telemarketers Edited May 24, 2016 by Lord Hitchcock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted May 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 1 minute ago, Lord Hitchcock said: That's a fair assessment if you didn't try to sell bad snx propaganda along with it you'll like one of those damn telemarketers You realize salesmanship is encouraged according to Libertarian free market ideology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hitchcock Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 1 minute ago, Immortan Junka said: You realize salesmanship is encouraged according to Libertarian free market ideology. Senator Methrage does not allow telemarketers in the kingdom. They are tarred and feathered and shipped back to the imperium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) Junka what you don't understand is aNiMaLz chose to attack you for trying to convince them to turn on their friends, then I agreed with their response. There is no rule preventing alliances from leaving, but if a LPC member attacks you for trying to get them to turn on us; then I can agree with their response. Also I'll take it this thread is meant as a DoW, since that seemed to be how you treated it when I created a thread to question your actions after you broke the NAP with aNiMaLz illegally. Edited May 24, 2016 by Sephiroth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartfw Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 I encourage all Cowboy treaty-less treaty partners to take a minute and reflect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) Sephiroth has claimed that leaving LPCN is "treason." Sephiroth started sanction wars to protect rogues sanctioned by other color teams. Sephiroth allows his members to threaten individual wars against other alliances. Animalz has pursued PZI against new nations that fight back against raids. Sephiroth claimed jurisdiction over Supernova X, which resulted in a two month war. Also Slander is another CB, if I ever referred to someone leaving as treason it was probably when COBRA left without even telling us they were leaving, they had Kashmir post it for them. However I told aNiMaLz to leave COBRA alone & we had peace with them until we were declared on by them. I didn't try getting Galerion to take control of SNX until after you declared on us and a war lasting several months was already inevitable due to that. (Had Galerion not supported your desire for war against us, I was open to negotiating with him if he didn't support you dragging them into constant conflict with us. Although I gave up on that when he made clear he wasn't interested.) Edited May 24, 2016 by Sephiroth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Chocolate Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) For all those who had an issue with Doom Kingdom protecting SNX, please note the following: Doom Kingdom is no longer around to "advise" Supernova X (and Junka) against posting essays. Our revenge against our enemies has come. Enjoy. Edited May 24, 2016 by White Chocolate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hitchcock Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 Just now, White Chocolate said: For all those who had an issue with Doom Kingdom protecting SNX, please note the following: Doom Kingdom is no longer around to "advise" Supernova X (and Junka) against posting essays. Our revenge has come. Enjoy. ... You Monster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 While I can't say I'm a fan of Junka's posting style (ugh), do you even read your stuff Seph? It's not appropriate to try to coup your opponents. Just fight the war when another alliance declares on you. Use allies if you got some. Getting involved in their internal politics, the best result you can hope for is a post-war GGA clone following you around. And believe me, that's a terrible result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Haflinger said: While I can't say I'm a fan of Junka's posting style (ugh), do you even read your stuff Seph? It's not appropriate to try to coup your opponents. Just fight the war when another alliance declares on you. Use allies if you got some. Getting involved in their internal politics, the best result you can hope for is a post-war GGA clone following you around. And believe me, that's a terrible result. I sent one message to see if others supported his actions & wanted to follow him into war, apparrently they did & its annoying to see Junka continuing to cry over one message sent after he declared war on LN preemptively and provoked war with aNiMaLz by trying conspire to get them to turn on me. So I did fight them for 2 months without trying to coup him, along with his protector at the time. I thought he learned his lesson in the last war & we wouldn't constantly have Junka whining about the war after it was white peaced, but apparently our response against him was far to soft. Edited May 24, 2016 by Sephiroth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grealind Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 The following statement is being made by the Interior Chancellor on behalf of myself, and not my alliance (Atlas) and is as such not representative of any policy of or relating to Atlas. Oh my what the everloving $%&@. Junka, I officially hate you right now, since you are making me feel bad for Methrage. Let me be clear, this is a straight up Hate Boner that you have going on, and putting Atlas in your mouth (where it really doesn't belong) is just not appropriate. You have some magical delusions going on right now, and please, pass that !@#$. If you don't want them/him in Senate, then get enough votes together and remove him. Problem solved. But nope, you cant even do that right. Just leave the man alone, and let him get on with his treasonous purging, if that is what he really is doing? Obligatory Hail Alexio, Hail Atlas, Hail Pacifica (because one must always hail our benevolent overlords on Red) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hitchcock Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) 24 minutes ago, hartfw said: I encourage all Cowboy treaty-less treaty partners to take a minute and reflect. I have reflected... oh DK, please come back. I will love you and squeeze you and never talk bad about you again. I'm so sorry! Edited May 24, 2016 by Lord Hitchcock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grealind Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 Also, since you are so terrified of his powers of sanctions, let me put something in perspective for you: SNX sanctioned 2 people in October 2015, at the request of Kashmir Atlas sanctioned 1 person in September 2015, and that person was a rogue Methrage sanctioned 11 people in August 2015, during the Brown Sanction War (cause that's what we're calling it I guess) Tevron (Atlas) 15, Laserwolf (GATO) 1 during the month of August. I really don't want to go back through July, but there was a bunch of FAN v. Methrage stuff going on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visayan Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 to long to read...but at least there's this war i'm looking forward to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visayan Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 16 hours ago, Grealind said: Also, since you are so terrified of his powers of sanctions, let me put something in perspective for you: SNX sanctioned 2 people in October 2015, at the request of Kashmir Atlas sanctioned 1 person in September 2015, and that person was a rogue Methrage sanctioned 11 people in August 2015, during the Brown Sanction War (cause that's what we're calling it I guess) Tevron (Atlas) 15, Laserwolf (GATO) 1 during the month of August. I really don't want to go back through July, but there was a bunch of FAN v. Methrage stuff going on there. those sanctions made by meth was in response to lady dakota forgetting her meds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tevron Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) I quite liked the sanction war, even if it were a little dramatic. *Obligatory note that Grealind's opinions are still his own, and that no Atlas member below the rank of Grand Moff may post in this thread. Edited May 24, 2016 by Tevron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 Why does a 2 million nation strength alliance SNX have to follow around an alliance a fraction of its strength to maintain relevancy? You should be embarrassed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 7 hours ago, Haflinger said: While I can't say I'm a fan of Junka's posting style (ugh), do you even read your stuff Seph? It's not appropriate to try to coup your opponents. Just fight the war when another alliance declares on you. Use allies if you got some. Getting involved in their internal politics, the best result you can hope for is a post-war GGA clone following you around. And believe me, that's a terrible result. you're both terrible. (junka and methrage) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duderonomy Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) I approve of this rivalry, given the following conditions: 1. You each only post one thread about this rivalry every three months.This includes DoWs, Propaganda, etc. 2. All discussion of this rivalry remains in these threads for the general sanity of Bob at large. 3. A single 15-words-or-less sentence serves as the TLDR at the end of your essays for those of us who enjoy the drama but prefer it Jerry-Springer style. The above should apply to you and your alliance-mates/blocmates. This looks to be the ideological debate catfight of the next 5 years on Bob, gentlemen. Make it a good one, and may Auctor smile upon you. Edited May 24, 2016 by Duderonomy Who am I kidding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobiash Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) Junka, If we declare on SNX, do a round or 2, then we do a white-peace-surrender, will you then Please Please just leave us alone? I have only been back a little more then a month, but I am a broken man, I cant handle this continued stacking. Edited May 24, 2016 by tobiash Typo yet again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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