Announcement from GATO, TSC, and Atlas.

[White Chocolate]

The fate of the Brown team hangs on the wire today, being the last day for voting.
 
If I manage to pull in just a few more votes from those who don't want to see freedom choked off, with Sanctions as a weapon of war for the bigger side being a fact of life; then very realistically anyone ranked 3-5 could be pushed out of the Senate due to SNX trying to manipulate the polls to such an extent.
 
If you manage to push me out, that will just make the warriors twice as motivated to fight for the month until we reclaim it. Also your antics with the Senate have only proved the worst I've thought about SNX. SNX attacking from a military standpoint has been shown not to be anything to worry about. However this simultaneous push to get me out of Senate & attack my alliance at once will ensure we're fighting for a very long time.

Doom Kingdom does not support the use of sanctions in this war.  I have made that clear to the leadership fighting in our coalition.  I have decided to say this in public as well. That way, if they are used it is clear that it was done against our wishes.  I can not tell another alliance leader or a brown senator what to do and not do.  

 

I do, however, have the power to drop our treaties with any alliance who we have one with.   I have discussed the situation with my co-leader, Lord Hershey, and we both agree that sanctioning Sephiroth would be a very bad move.  If that happens, it will be taken into account AFTER this war when we reconsider our Foreign Affairs objectives.

 

(Freelancer, please DO translate that for anyone who doesn't understand diplomatic speech :D )   

Edited March 3, 2016 by White Chocolate

[Sephiroth]

Doom Kingdom does not support the use of sanctions in this war.  I have made that clear to the leadership fighting in our coalition.  I have decided to say this in public as well. That way, if they are used it is clear that it was done against our wishes.  I can not tell another alliance leader or a brown senator what to do and not do.  

 

I do, however, have the power to drop our treaties with any alliance who we have one with.   I have discussed the situation with my co-leader, Lord Hershey, and we both agree that sanctioning Sephiroth would be a very bad move.  If that happens, it will be taken into account AFTER this war when we reconsider our Foreign Affairs objectives.

 

(Freelancer, please DO translate that for anyone who doesn't understand diplomatic speech :D )   

i appreciate you making that clear. That you.

 

Trust me there's a cult following, that said and I ask this in public knowing full we'll I'm most likely going to get a {OOC)CNN {/OOC) response, but I'm going to do it anyway. 

 

What's SNX's goal here, I'm taking long term, because from my vantage point none of you can see 3 feet in front of your face, you fight when you should be negotiating , you run when you should stand your ground, and you both bicker over the one thing that doesn't matter. For all those wondering what that is.

 

 

I'm going to give you some advice none of you will take, but I'll do it anyway, both of you in private come up with your vision of how you both see the brown team, keep in mind it's current inhabitants and traditionally who's home it really is, then have 3, 6 and 9 month goals and what ever they are, make sure there met.

 

Then go big bad and bold and tell GATO there service's are no longer required, knowing full well who there allies are and kick them off the team, you want to forge your own destiny ? There I just gave you the grand vision.

 

Now before MTTezla reads this and has a stroke, relax, trust me it's a good thing.

I see myself in a better position when this ends than when it started, with SNX having learned a clear lesson not to attack us & try conspiring against us on the Senate as they do it. Junka is uncompromising, he got himself in a war he's fully reliant on outside help to make it seem like they are accomplishing anything & focusing on the Senate which will have no effect other than a symbolic one. Symbolic for our side in it shows Junka doesn't want to make amends and work together, but instead keeps trying to push the LPC out of the Senate as they attack us; giving us a 0% chance to want to peace them out unless they are surrendering.

 

Will I maybe decide on peace sooner if I feel SNX has learned their lesson sooner? Maybe, but instead I just see increasing arrogance from SNX over trying to push me out of the Senate as something to annoy me rather than it being relevant to how the war turns out.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Sephiroth

[Galerion]

We are doing what you asked us to do to the other senators who we have no issue with.

 

[Freelancer]

I do, however, have the power to drop our treaties with any alliance who we have one with. I have discussed the situation with my co-leader, Lord Hershey, and we both agree that sanctioning Sephiroth would be a very bad move. If that happens, it will be taken into account AFTER this war when we reconsider our Foreign Affairs objectives.

Mom and Dad talked and while smoking a cig they both agree some of their children have gotten a little to big for their britches and want them to understand that with great power comes great responsibility, don't make them do something you don't want them to.

edit ... damn tablets

Edited March 3, 2016 by Freelancer

[The Zigur]

Methrage's last post is an example of why he always mistakes kindness for weakness, and will make an mile out of any inch. His response to White Chocolate's declaration is an indication of someone that cannot be negotiated or reasoned with.

 

SNX pushing LPCN out of the senate signals to the rational mind that LPCN does not represent the majority of brown, but don't tell that to the Brown Messiah.

[Sephiroth]

Sigrun was a Senator & someone who tried taking a middle of the line appraoch. Unify rather than see this war go on. If you guys were willing to help Sigrun, I would have been willing to push within the LPC as you having made up for your offenses against us.

 

Also I think that is the thread titled "To Soon?" I made not long after the war began, messing around a little. Although early on Junka asked me about negotiating peace, I told him getting SNX to make sure I win rather than lose due to SNX's actions is the only way he could sway me towards peace; Junka decided towards the opposite to ensure war. So your leader picked this war, your leader chose to continue provoking it into being probably much longer than Junka thought it would be.

 

I'm 1 vote behind 5th, so its a very close election. I would love to win, but if I didn't there wouldn't even be a thread to speak of it. Since if I lose the Senate, the military aspect is all I have left to care about & we're opposed to weaponizing sanctions regardless of whether I have the Senate. So pushing us out won't accomplish much, except I'll feel peace before I'm back in the Senate would be unfeasable when those attacking would be responsible for me losing it.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Sephiroth

[magicninja]

Mom and Dad talked  and while smoking a cig talked, they both agree some of their children have gotten a little to big for their britches and want them to understand that with great power comes great responsibility, don't make them do something you don't want to.

Good but for the uninitiated:

If SNX sanctions Sephiroth, Doom Kingdom may have to cancel on SNX after the war is over.

That said, I see DK said THIS war.....what about any other wars?

[Sephiroth]

If that happens, it will be taken into account AFTER this war when we reconsider our Foreign Affairs objectives.

What if they sanction, you tell them that isn't something you can support a second time (Not sure why the first when they have clear warning wouldn't be enough), but if after I get the sanctions removed from the first round; would DK drop him right away if he goes ahead with a second round of sanctions despite you have given repeated warnings?

 

I think you guys should already be reconsidering your objectives. What you're doing would be like if NpO backed Monsters Inc when they fought NPO; you already have many reasons you don't need to protect them. They started the war.

[Freelancer]

What if they sanction, you tell them that isn't something you can support a second time (Not sure why the first when they have clear warning wouldn't be enough), but if after I get the sanctions removed from the first round; would DK drop him right away if he goes ahead with a second round of sanctions despite you have given repeated warnings?

 

I think you guys should already be reconsidering your objectives. What you're doing would be like if NpO backed Monsters Inc when they fought NPO; you already have many reasons you don't need to protect them. They started the war.

I don't profess to speak for Doom or WC, however she and Hershey are both reasonable people, if something like that transpired at say 12:01 server time, when she woke, had her morning coffee and bagel turned on the news she'd most likely not be pleased.

[DragonsPhyre]

Look, the Global Alliance and Treaty Organization has been on Brown since its inception more than ten years ago before anyone else. We will be here long after everyone else has left the sphere. This is our home. We've reached our peak and terrible lows on Brown. We've weathered storms that have broken other alliances. Our flag is brown. Our colors are brown and white. We basically bleed brown. GATO is Brown, not in the sense that we control it or anything like that, but we are tied to the Brown sphere in a very fundamental way. We are not the most powerful or the most numerous, but we are enduring and I'm working to recall the passion that we once held. We are more than happy to share the sphere with other alliances since diversity is a core component of a healthy economic and political sphere. Differences of opinion is a time-honored GATO tradition. You should've seen the arguments we had in our heyday and that was with each other, not even our enemies at the time.

I do not really want to entangle the Global Alliance into matters that most adults should be able to handle amongst themselves, particularly since one of our core tenets is that every nation, every alliance, has the right to self-determination and the protection of its own sovereignty. This mess with SNX and LPCN is not something I'd usually even think about getting involved in except that it's lasting far longer than any brawl should and it's affecting us more than it should. Since both Tywin and Methrage are already getting in touch with us, I or another government will continue any discussion of GATO's involvement, however little or large it is, with them and Atlas in private. I consider this chiefly a Brown matter considering the source of the issue and I am a little concerned that alliances of other colors are getting materially involved.

Let's be leaders, shall we, and not children?

[Sephiroth]

Look, the Global Alliance and Treaty Organization has been on Brown since its inception more than ten years ago before anyone else. We will be here long after everyone else has left the sphere. This is our home. We've reached our peak and terrible lows on Brown. We've weathered storms that have broken other alliances. Our flag is brown. Our colors are brown and white. We basically bleed brown. GATO is Brown, not in the sense that we control it or anything like that, but we are tied to the Brown sphere in a very fundamental way. We are not the most powerful or the most numerous, but we are enduring and I'm working to recall the passion that we once held. We are more than happy to share the sphere with other alliances since diversity is a core component of a healthy economic and political sphere. Differences of opinion is a time-honored GATO tradition. You should've seen the arguments we had in our heyday and that was with each other, not even our enemies at the time.

I do not really want to entangle the Global Alliance into matters that most adults should be able to handle amongst themselves, particularly since one of our core tenets is that every nation, every alliance, has the right to self-determination and the protection of its own sovereignty. This mess with SNX and LPCN is not something I'd usually even think about getting involved in except that it's lasting far longer than any brawl should and it's affecting us more than it should. Since both Tywin and Methrage are already getting in touch with us, I or another government will continue any discussion of GATO's involvement, however little or large it is, with them and Atlas in private. I consider this chiefly a Brown matter considering the source of the issue and I am a little concerned that alliances of other colors are getting materially involved.

Let's be leaders, shall we, and not children?

I have a great deal of respect for GATO & would love if the entire Brown Team could get along. Although the hostility from SNX has only increased after they attacked & Junka still seems to very much want to escalate than see us get along.

 

He doesn't want peace, he wants to win. He wants to try twisting any peace we agree to as a victory. That he's trying to push me out of the Senate will ensure the war doesn't end until at the very least I have my seat back or we get an acceptable apology from SNX. If he manages to push me out, he'll try using that to twist this as a victory if we agree to peace with SNX before I get my seat back.

[Freelancer]

Let's be leaders, shall we, and not children?

I was only trying to help, the two of them seemed to lack a common vision, so I gave them one :p

[Sephiroth]

I was only trying to help, the two of them seemed to lack a common vision, so I gave them one :P

Because we were both former FCC & things seemed cool between us, I thought Junka taking over SNX would be good at first. I've made a lot of efforts to see if we can share a common vision, but instead he decided to ally up with a former opponent I stomped last time & is unable to let go of the grudge. (Stonewall)

 

Also TAO has made clear they don't want peace ever & will always be looking for opportunistic times to attack if we peace them out, so a surrender seems appropriate to finally put an end to this. After that round I fought Stonewall, while I was fighting III% he launched a war in the micro tier where we sent him against our non-nuclear smaller nations. After that was peaced out, TAO attacked to help GOONS keep me staggered. Even now he proudly claims credit for having a role in planning this, so its clear Stonewall is an enemy who needs to be defeated & Junka is deeply in bed with Stonewall who's grudge will never fade.

 

Although rather than ever fight me directly, after that war Stonewall keeps attacking when we're fighting others & I'm out of range. If he wanted a rematch, I would have expected him to wait until I'm in range to attack; rather than intentionally attacking before I had time to build up into his range after fighting GOONS. So we have no intention of letting TAO go after just a few rounds with everything they've done & they seem attached at the hip with SNX; who with this push to remove me from the Senate & hitting aNiMaLz while I was fighting GOONS is enough to make them worth hitting for a while until Junka doesn't want to be a hostile neighbor on Brown, if he stays on Brown.

[USMC123]

Oh hey there is a legitimate brown sphere unity treaty now.

[Sephiroth]

SNX gave it their best shot, but failed in their attempt to remove me from the Senate in the last 48 Seconds.

 

o/ Brown Team

 

The Brown Team will continue to be the most free & best team. The Free Team Project.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Sephiroth

[White Chocolate]

I have a great deal of respect for GATO & would love if the entire Brown Team could get along. That he's trying to push me out of the Senate will ensure the war doesn't end until at the very least I have my seat back or we get an acceptable apology from SNX. If he manages to push me out, he'll try using that to twist this as a victory if we agree to peace with SNX before I get my seat back.

 

So, Sephiroth, let me get this straight.  You are saying above that at the very least for peace, you want the entire brown team to agree that you should have a senate seat by right (as opposed to going through the regular democratic election process) and that SNX should apologize for being intelligent and organized enough to be able to kick you from your seat through votes. 

 

 

Also TAO has made clear they don't want peace ever & will always be looking for opportunistic times to attack if we peace them out, so a surrender seems appropriate to finally put an end to this.

 

You are putting far too much emphasis on the usual "you, no you" banter that happens on the OWF.  I would rather not go back and find all the times that you have made comments about how you plan to fight until X or Y impossible or totally unreasonable condition is met, as there are so many to chose from between all the numerous threads where you made such comments.  In fact, why not just review your OP where you made public demands that SNX drop their chosen leader and called myself and Doom Kingdom out for our choice to protect another alliance?  

 

In general, if you treat others in a fashion the natural response of the other person is to turn around and give it back to you.  When I speak privately to Stonewall14/TAO about how they actually want to settle this, the response has been essentially whatever you think is best, White Chocolate.  Tone down or stop your own crazy rhetoric before being critical of and pointing to others when they respond back to you in kind. 

[Sephiroth]

A simple surrender would be fine with me, so they can't twist white peace into victory like when we let them have it last time..

 

I'm not into forcing terms either, so if they're willing to admit defeat & put this behind us; I can move on. However every white peace seems like either just a pause to attack later with a better advantage (Stonewall) or something he can try twisting into a big victory for himself; as well as a loss for the enemy. (Junka)

 

SNX got their white peace, now we'll see who really wins despite their opportunistic timing to target us & complaining when I fight their lower tier despite them intentionally attacking before we could build up higher.

 

However DK other than backing Junka hasn't given me reason not to make peace easy. So white peace, just pretending you were never involved, etc, would all be fine with me. TAO & SNX we have very legitimate grievances with & both have abused white peace when let off easy before.

 

DK has no reason to support TAO & if you tell SNX to surrender to get out; some words could end this for them if you don't want to support their aggressive war & they don't listen.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Sephiroth

[The Zigur]

Methrage barely keeping a 5th place senate seat (lol) is the result of bribing nations for votes and bringing Monsters Inc to brown. LPCN is even more repugnant than when the war started as a result. It would be nice if we stop hearing about how he is the savior of brown team, and how SNX are "traitors," but this lesson in humility will undoubtedly fly right over his head.

 

The strategic situation of this war remains, there will be no peace until Methrage comes to the negotiation table like an adult.

[White Chocolate]

A simple surrender would be fine with me, so they can't twist white peace into victory like when we let them have it last time..

From what I recall you saying in the past,  Limitless Nexus considers white peace a victory because you realize as a small alliance that you are probably not going to actually be able to force a surrender.  Again, I don't want to go back and find all the comments you've made to that effect...people can look at your comments during the "clown car" (for lack of a better name) war between Limitless Nexus and SRA and probably find a ton. 

 

But SNX can't consider white peace a victory for them in a war? Oh no, this is a terrible injustice that must be brought to the OWF and pointed out continually when someone else does it.

 

Once again, you're holding others to a higher standard than you hold yourself. 

 

I'm going to follow my own advice at his point, and let you continue to post nonsense. without rewarding you by taking it serious.  When you want to end this in a reasonable fashion, have someone let me know.

Edited March 4, 2016 by White Chocolate

[Sephiroth]

Methrage barely keeping a 5th place senate seat (lol) is the result of bribing nations for votes and bringing Monsters Inc to brown. LPCN is even more repugnant than when the war started as a result. It would be nice if we stop hearing about how he is the savior of brown team, and how SNX are "traitors," but this lesson in humility will undoubtedly fly right over his head.

 

The strategic situation of this war remains, there will be no peace until Methrage comes to the negotiation table like an adult.

I didn't realize we had such deep rooted enemies on Brown, but this election was a wakeup call to consolidate our votes once more. You won't get close again, that was your one shot when you got us by surprise.

 

From what I recall you saying in the past,  Limitless Nexus considers white peace a victory because you realize as a small alliance that you are probably not going to actually be able to force a surrender.  Again, I don't want to go back and find all the comments you've made to that effect...people can look at your comments during the "clown car" (for lack of a better name) war between Limitless Nexus and SRA and probably find a ton. 

 

But SNX can't consider white peace a victory for them. in a war? 

 

Once again, you're holding others to a higher standard than you hold yourself 

Did I announce any wars with DK or DS as victories when they ended with white peace? Have I with Kashmir?

 

While I consider white peace good enough for those with some manners, I don't record them as victories or claim them as such. I respect the agreement when its white peace & if I consider it a victory; I consider it clear enough it doesn't need saying.

 

After SNX claimed to beat us and called us sore losers for claiming otherwise, we have no intention of allowing him the same outcome. SNX has been ineffective, PaultheWall has blown through his money & Stonewall is trying to build out of range rather than fight directly. So I see us inching closer to victory against SNX, with the rest mostly being background noise.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Sephiroth

[The Zigur]

The SNX-Animalz agreement was not a white peace, and we are not going to rewrite history to appease a delusional megalomaniac who thinks he's winning when he's not even a top 120 alliance anymore.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Immortan Junka

[Galerion]

Methrage barely keeping a 5th place senate seat (lol) is the result of bribing nations for votes and bringing Monsters Inc to brown. LPCN is even more repugnant than when the war started as a result. It would be nice if we stop hearing about how he is the savior of brown team, and how SNX are "traitors," but this lesson in humility will undoubtedly fly right over his head.

 

The strategic situation of this war remains, there will be no peace until Methrage comes to the negotiation table like an adult.

 

Just to show bribery was going on and just how desperate Methrage was to hang on to his seat.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2016 by Galerion

[Sephiroth]

The SNX-Animalz agreement was not a white peace, and we are not going to rewrite history to appease a delusional megalomaniac who thinks he's winning when he's not even a top 120 alliance anymore.

I just can't take a word you say seriously, there is no way you believe any of it. Its complete opposite to the truth.

 

Here is the "White Peace" thread you made, since you finally got Sir Kindle to respond saying he was alright with white peace.

 

Here is where you say you want white peace or a NAP. Sir Kindle says he wants a NAP to ensure no more attacks.

 

When did it go from white peace to not being white peace? Since going by the timing, it would seem Sir Kindle demanded the NAP & you lost if agreeing to sign an equal NAP isn't white peace.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

It became not a white peace when Animalz declined Junka's generous offers afterwards, to arrange for them to sell tech to other people for less money, sign treaties with him as subordinates and repudiate treaties with us as equals, and of course to vote for who he told them to.

 

Then he went and edited history and called it a 'victory' and then they went and said 'war never ended then.'

 

Which is what I would have said if I hadn't declined to enter on the original CB back in January that I bet absolutely no one reading this thread can even remember.

 

..........yeah.......sooo........

 

Junka has drawn in well over a hundred million in outside war aid, while LN and Animalz have continued to ship tech to pay their way. He's drawn in all the allies he could beg borrow or steal, and it doesn't seem to have done him a lot of good. And after refusing every attempt to find a peaceful resolution, after banking everything he had on one roll of the dice... he failed.

 

He couldn't even keep Sephiroth out of the senate for a single term.

 

You should have quit while you were even buddy.

[Sephiroth]

Maybe SNX would be better served with fresh leadership.

 

Utilizing the larger nations of SNX, I could use that aid efficiently to quickly grow the entire active micro range into having MPs & making enough money to start buying tech very quickly & not need tech deals anymore..

 

SNX reminds me a lot of how the FCC was, not much of a fighting alliance before I took over; although they did have a lot of big nations who had grown to massive sizes from not fighting. If those larger SNX nations are active and care about the alliance enough to send aid; 60,000 Avg NS & having everyone active nuclear capable within a few months should be easy; along with everyone reaching the stage where they make enough daily buying tech makes more sense than selling it. I could turn SNX into a real war alliance. Quickly bringing the smaller nations up in strength, far above anything I've ever seen Junka reach. 

 

I've been wanting to get out of the lower tiers asap, which is why the GOONS War started to bore me. If you accept me as your new Leader, I'll allow Junka to hold an internal management position if he wants & Galerion to remain the SNX Senator. If you guys want leadership who knows how to get your alliance ahead; rather than one of tech farms; I could help.

 

2 months would be more than enough to get every nation big enough selling tech isn't needed & they still make money if they send tech with no payment if they don't build up their tech.

 

So we can work together towards a united Brown Team to reach new height, or will Junka continue to lead you towards your end?

 

I've fought other alliances who said they would never surrender before like Junka, not all of them kept together when a stubborn leader starts a war & refuses to admit defeat or make things right. The Senate votes when I needed them were Junka's chance to show maybe we could work together & he wasn't 100% against me, but instead he tried his hardest to do the opposite. Before Junka went full hostile towards me, I've been wanting to help SNX & have a lot of leadership experience even with bigger alliances Pre-Karma.