A Valentine from TPF

[Caliph]

Actually I wasnt around when NPO held FAN in war for years.  Well I suppose tech right at the end I was around, but I was pretty much a clueless new guy.  I wasnt supporting it certainly.  When I became aware of it (around karma), I admired FAN for holding out and had a severe distaste for any who would do that to them.  How hypocritical would I be that I supported FAN against NPO if I didn't now support NPO over TPF?  When TPF is waging an aggressive eternal war?  Its not about size to me, its about right or wrong.   IVe fought against NPO and with them over the years.

 

 

And ive no idea whether anyone cares if I have an issue with it or not.  I also don't care if they do or don't.  To me it seems wrong.  Im going to share my opinion for that in the public venue made for sharing that opinion.  You are free to ignore me, argue with me, or scream in rage.

 

I oppose certain things in bob.  Reparations.  Eternal wars.  A few others. I oppose them whether my allies do them or whether enemies do them. Ive certainly shown over the years ill take unpopular stances because its what I agree with.   So yeah. 

 

 

Multi year wars are disgusting.  In my personal opinion.  Whether thats my ally doing it or my enemy.

 

 

I was around during VietFAN.  I was also around when TPF betrayed the UJP.  

 

That was many years ago and this world has hanged much in the time since those events.

 

I've been around when alliances have declared perma war on others.  I just don't see that happening in a similar way now to what it was like  back then.  This seems more like TPF's way to go out in a blaze of glory rather than a coordinated and calculated campaign to destroy NPO.  

 

Just take it as it is, one last cry from an old alliance.  

[Caustic]

Hey Os, shut up and declare some wars. Come on in, the water's fine  :ehm:

[Sephiroth]

I for one would absolutely love to lose all my pixels for NoR, our closest ally. I mean, lets face it. IRON and Oculus would be nothing if not for.... What was the na- Oh yeah.... NoR. 
Go NoR and your one expired war! Oculus will crumble without you?

How long has Valhalla been under attack and how long have they not received help despite being allied to VE & Umbrella? After a triple declare on them by berbers, they had one nation counter and help fight back. Then Bean declares 1 war on NOR & the rest on Valhalla.

So if being in Oculus means letting your allies outside drop one by one who aren't in when under blatant attack, how safe will any be if it falls apart? Will VE/Umbrella care about helping another Oculus member defend an outside treaty partner if Oculus doesn't support doing it for theirs? Edited February 16, 2016 by Sephiroth

[grahamkeatley]

My best wishes go out to TPF, and I hope it is the satisfying excursion you seek.

 

As for the talk of "perma war" - if you enter a war, declare war with the expectation that it does not go on forever you have made a mistake. Going in with the assumption that you will eventually Peace Out is just folly. So until the war ends it should be considered full-on war forever and can't see how it is even a discussion.

 

GK

[Helbrecht]

Well :;nods to smurf:: I would love for them to clarify.  Like I said thats the backroom chatter ive heard from a few people.  That doesnt mean its true... it could totally be false.  But its even what ive picked up from a couple of tpfers going on about being at war for 'years'.
 
That could just be chest thumping.  But it raises eyebrows and imo means TPF should clarify their stance and goal on the issue.

Forever only lasts till the entity lasts. They have made it plenty clear that as long as they are able to without stressing out, they will. Then it will be bye bye Bob.

[Aesculus]

Thank you so much for this, this is truly the greatest day

[Devialance]

I for one would absolutely love to lose all my pixels for NoR, our closest ally. I mean, lets face it. IRON and Oculus would be nothing if not for.... What was the na- Oh yeah.... NoR. 

Go NoR and your one expired war! Oculus will crumble without you?

How many times has IRON sat by and let their allies be hit, sorry I lost count its been that many.

[Isolatar]

I for one would absolutely love to lose all my pixels for NoR, our closest ally. I mean, lets face it. IRON and Oculus would be nothing if not for.... What was the na- Oh yeah.... NoR. 

Go NoR and your one expired war! Oculus will crumble without you?

 

So when can we expect IRON to defend Valhalla? I mean, we literally used it as an excuse to attack them. Would be a shame if you guys did nothing about it.

[wes the wise]

As sad as I am to see it come to this it is really unfortunate TPF had to go out with a temper tantrum, and not accept responsibility for it's own actions. At least when we've made bad decisions we've owned up to them and paid dearly for them pretty much every time. I guess hoping TPF could do the same was too much to expect.

 

Regardless happy hunting TPF!

 

o/

Looks like TPF is very much accepting responsibility for their actions. And now NPO is reaping what they have sewn. May it last forever. 

[berbers]

How long has Valhalla been under attack and how long have they not received help despite being allied to VE & Umbrella? After a triple declare on them by berbers, they had one nation counter and help fight back.

They picked up my last two slots, and typically an AA wouldn't call in allies to deal wth 1 nation. I really like most Occulus AA's, rather not fight any of them. Valhalla on the other hand deserve to be burned to the ground.

[Samus]

So you just want more targets ?

Sadly they will have no one in my range for some years to come.

 

Why not do the honorable thing and defend NoR, afraid of losing your stats?

lmao who the hell are NoR to me?

[Vladimir Poutine]

IVe no issue with that actually, considering they werent allies.

 

Ive no issue with TPF hitting NPO here either.  I DO have issues with talk of the war going on for years.

 

 

I am in an alliance that during my time in it has acted properly.  IF I had an issue with my alliances actions I wouldnt be in it obviously.

 

 

So yeah.  Again. I actually approve of wars that are started because of 'i dont like you.'  I was fine with it when TPF did it now.  I was fine when MK did it in grudge war.  I'm always going to be fine with that.

 

 

I get TPF is now playing coy and refusing to give a clear answer on eternal war on principle. But ive seen now a few statements about wars going on over a year (whether they can pull it off or not is another question).  That to me is the no-no.  Not the aggressive action.

 

 

edit to add: And I wasnt around for the goons thing to answer your question there.  Im not qualified to argue about it one way or another.  If you want to talk about say DH-NPO going forward i'm well versed.  Slightly less well versed but present for bi-polar and karma.

I believe TPF has represented their views and purpose in this war rather well. They intend to fight until they do not have any money remaining, then delete. I refer you to the post below as an example.

 

My statement is pretty clear. I have several billion dollars. I will launch nukes until it's gone. Then my nation is gone. If anyone doesn't like it, I do not care in any way, shape or form. I don't care about honor. I don't care about the future. The future is non-existent beyond the limit of my war chest. It may not amount to much in the grand scheme of things, but it pleases me to do this. Once NPO pre-empted us with 0 reason last war, they bought this ticket from my nation.

 

That is my feeling, this is how it will play out in my nation.

 

Obviously one post does not represent the entire alliance, but I believe this sentiment is echoed throughout TPF. I am not sure where you are confused about this issue.

[Delta2642]

Maybe, just maybe it's something to do with the fact that we were some of NPO's most loyal allies for years, even when we didn't necessarily agree with them.

 

Personally, I was never the biggest fan of the NPO at all, yet despite whatever I thought of them, I fought by their side because we were allies. Even when perhaps objectively it was wrong to stand by their side, we still did because we stand by our word.

 

Over the past 5 or 6 out of 8 years, my nation has burned again and again in defense of the NPO. Not because I liked them, but because of the alliances relationship and our history. Sure you could say that they drifted apart recently, I'm sure blame could be apportioned on both sides if you dig deep enough. The fact is though, they then turn and declare on us 'because they were bored'.

 

6 years of burning in their defense and the entire history of our two alliances were worth nothing. They could have said "we know you're going to have to defend your ally and therefore we declare on you", but they didn't. It was a big bloc against us. Anyone could have been sent to fight us. It doesn't matter whether NPO masterminded the war, NPO led the charge against us in spite of everything.

 

6 years of burning for NPO, only to burn by NPOs hand. So if they burn for us for a few years I think that's only fair... We didn't surrender, we did the truly loyal thing and got our allies out of the battlezone, so now it's time for our own little Continuation War! :war: :gun:

 

 

Think of it like setting yourself on fire and bum-rushing a tank. The chances of beating the tank are astronomical but it's gonna take a hella long time for them to clean the mess off their shiny paint.

[leeguy]

NPO lead the charge against us in the last war, the had the most offensive wars against us than any other occulus member. We never meant anything to them. Other than just being another meatshield.

[Pingu]

This is not a pre-emptive war, which would be getting in an attack first against an impending aggressor. I'm pretty sure NPO had no plans to attack TPF. It is, rather, as TPF have made clear, a war of revenge for the wrongs they believe NPO have done to them. As far as war can be (and war is always hell), it seems like good, clean fun. I wish both warring parties the best. Naturally, I wish our allies in NPO a swift victory.

The rest is sound and fury, signifying nothing.

[wes the wise]

This is not a pre-emptive war, which would be getting in an attack first against an impending aggressor. I'm pretty sure NPO had no plans to attack TPF. It is, rather, as TPF have made clear, a war of revenge for the wrongs they believe NPO have done to them. As far as war can be (and war is always hell), it seems like good, clean fun. I wish both warring parties the best. Naturally, I wish our allies in NPO a swift victory.

The rest is sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Are you suggesting the last war had any more merit? What was the CB? You call it revenge, fine, I'd say being attacked without a CB gives the defender an actual CB, which TPF is using right now.

[Delta2642]

This is not a pre-emptive war, which would be getting in an attack first against an impending aggressor. I'm pretty sure NPO had no plans to attack TPF. It is, rather, as TPF have made clear, a war of revenge for the wrongs they believe NPO have done to them. As far as war can be (and war is always hell), it seems like good, clean fun. I wish both warring parties the best. Naturally, I wish our allies in NPO a swift victory.

The rest is sound and fury, signifying nothing.

 

I'm sure I speak for all of TPF when I promise this: NPOs victory will be anything but swift.

[Pingu]

Are you suggesting the last war had any more merit? What was the CB? You call it revenge, fine, I'd say being attacked without a CB gives the defender an actual CB, which TPF is using right now.

  

Speaking entirely personally, I think the last war was a crock of excrement. Revenge is an excellent CB. I'm just pointing out that "pre-emption" has a precise meaning in international relations theory and law, and it doesn't apply in this case.

I'm sure I speak for all of TPF when I promise this: NPOs victory will be anything but swift.

Of course. I am duty-bound, as an ally of NPO, to wish them a swift victory. You are bound as their opponent to promise them anything but. These are the niceties of public diplomacy in time of war.

[Trout]

Because we are not rolling the Goons 

This.

And I'm not too active to be roguing on nigz

[Trout]

I believe TPF has represented their views and purpose in this war rather well. They intend to fight until they do not have any money remaining, then delete. I refer you to the post below as an example.
 
 
Obviously one post does not represent the entire alliance, but I believe this sentiment is echoed throughout TPF. I am not sure where you are confused about this issue.

Os just wants to spin things around.

[Delta2642]

  

Of course. I am duty-bound, as an ally of NPO, to wish them a swift victory.

For the historically challenged among us (not directed at the quotee); I hasten to point out that it was following the aforementioned path that led TPF to the situation we find ourselves in today :psyduck: you have been warned  :v: 

[WarriorSoul]

ITT:

Non Grata: "We're a-holes!"

IRON: "We don't give a shit about anyone!"

NPO: "You forced our hand, it's your fault!"

TPF: "We're actually totally justified in this!"

Peanut Gallery: "We follow party lines!"

Edited February 16, 2016 by WarriorSoul

[gunzzz]

ITT:

Non Grata: "We're a-holes!"

IRON: "We don't give a !@#$ about anyone!"

NPO: "You forced our hand, it's your fault!"

TPF: "We're actually totally justified in this!"

Peanut Gallery: "We follow party lines!"

No odn?

[Judge X]

ITT:

Non Grata: "We're a-holes!"

IRON: "We don't give a !@#$ about anyone!"

NPO: "You forced our hand, it's your fault!"

TPF: "We're actually totally justified in this!"

Peanut Gallery: "We follow party lines!"

Actually makes sense

[Judge X]

If anyone happens to care(and be registered on our forums), tea, biscuits, & spy reports are being offered in our public lounge as a farewell gesture. Because why not? But mostly because it will piss off more than a few sanctimonious people here.