the rebel Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 NPO's tech is heavily skewed toward the higher nations, not the nations we're discussing here that are within range of us. Their lower tiers are largely bereft of tech. Our numbers are obviously a small fraction of what they were prior to the MI6 beatdown. I believe we had a better ratio prior to that event. Wait....lower tiers are largely bereft of tech? No shit Sherlock. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge X Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 Yes. Most of their 3-5k infra nations have 300 tech or less. We aren't talking about the under 3k infra nations. It's sick that there are 5k infra nations over 3 years old without an MP or SDI. There are 2 year old nations sitting at 4k infra with 2-3 wonders tech farming. So yeah, failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 NPO's tech is heavily skewed toward the higher nations, not the nations we're discussing here that are within range of us. Their lower tiers are largely bereft of tech. Our numbers are obviously a small fraction of what they were prior to the MI6 beatdown. I believe we had a better ratio prior to that event. This always happens with prosperous alliances, the lower tiers flood with tech sellers who keep the upper tiers supplied. Then, when a beatdown alliance hits, the tech sellers get rolled over. It's what happened to GOONS in the Doomhouse war, because nearly their whole alliance was tech farmers and all their opponents were beatdown alliances. This is the risk that tech sellers take, and the main reason why nations should stop selling tech once their warchest is built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackatron Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 Yes. Most of their 3-5k infra nations have 300 tech or less. We aren't talking about the under 3k infra nations. It's sick that there are 5k infra nations over 3 years old without an MP or SDI. There are 2 year old nations sitting at 4k infra with 2-3 wonders tech farming. So yeah, failure. That's a bit of a shallow interpretation, personally I think 3,999.99 infra is where one should cease to be a tech farm (once they've built up enough economic wonders to finance 5 tech deals every 20 days, plus a wonder every 30 days, plus more infrastructure and building up a warchest), however lots of people have different opinions on the matter. Nations that years old should have quite a few wonders, it is fairly bad that many nations in some alliances only have a handful, however to say that everyone should stop being a tech seller above 3k infra is very narrow-minded, different people have different long term goals for their nations, and different alliances have different ideas on how to build up younger nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge X Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 That's a bit of a shallow interpretation, personally I think 3,999.99 infra is where one should cease to be a tech farm (once they've built up enough economic wonders to finance 5 tech deals every 20 days, plus a wonder every 30 days, plus more infrastructure and building up a warchest), however lots of people have different opinions on the matter. Nations that years old should have quite a few wonders, it is fairly bad that many nations in some alliances only have a handful, however to say that everyone should stop being a tech seller above 3k infra is very narrow-minded, different people have different long term goals for their nations, and different alliances have different ideas on how to build up younger nations. Shallow interpretation? They, along with us were in the receiving end of beat downs for almost a half decade and they didn't learn anything?! There is so much ass licking going on in this thread for poor old NPO. The "strongest" alliance on Bob. This should really be a sticking point for the fact that their allies are just meat shields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link Gaetz Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 That's a bit of a shallow interpretation, personally I think 3,999.99 infra is where one should cease to be a tech farm (once they've built up enough economic wonders to finance 5 tech deals every 20 days, plus a wonder every 30 days, plus more infrastructure and building up a warchest), however lots of people have different opinions on the matter. Nations that years old should have quite a few wonders, it is fairly bad that many nations in some alliances only have a handful, however to say that everyone should stop being a tech seller above 3k infra is very narrow-minded, different people have different long term goals for their nations, and different alliances have different ideas on how to build up younger nations. Most of the nations I've fought have started out well above 3,999 infra and most had very little tech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link Gaetz Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Wait....lower tiers are largely bereft of tech? No !@#$ Sherlock. :P Just explaining why Auctor's analysis doesn't hold water. Sherlock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackatron Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Shallow interpretation? They, along with us were in the receiving end of beat downs for almost a half decade and they didn't learn anything?! There is so much ass licking going on in this thread for poor old NPO. The "strongest" alliance on Bob. This should really be a sticking point for the fact that their allies are just meat shields. I'm sorry, when was I licking NPO's ass? TTK doesn't exactly have a history of that, and it's not something I'm hoping to start. I said upthread that I don't really have a here side, and that I hope you guys have fun. Maybe TPF is/was an exception to this, but most of what you and others have said about NPO's tech:infra situation could apply to almost all alliances, having more nations means it is more difficult for the leadership to try and get everyone tech trading/growing properly, which potentially means plenty of mid tier nations who haven't built their nations in the best way or who aren't the best prepared for war. I understand the desire to make fun of your enemies during war, but when someone who is neutral comes along and points out logical flaws in what you have said it doesn't mean they are for the enemy, just that that can be a fairly critical, cynical person. I did essentially the same thing to an NPO nation on this thread who was arguing the other side illogically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge X Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 I want referring to you directly. There is plenty of people taking up for their ineptitude. I am not talking about 1-2 year old nations. I'm talking about a 5 year old nation sitting at 7999 infra sending it tech, no nukes, no nothing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Yeah, most prosperous alliances have those. I call them tech banks. Mushroom Kingdom had an awful lot of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmoski Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) Year upon year operating as a tech bank? I guess there ARE those for whom the achingly dull and formulaic experience of Planet Bob is still enjoyable. More power to them! Without them, I'd be running out of NPO targets by now. Edited April 12, 2016 by Cosmoski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackatron Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Year upon year operating as a tech bank? I guess there ARE those for whom the achingly dull and formulaic experience of Planet Bob is still enjoyable. More power to them! Without them, I'd be running out of NPO targets by now. Is this really new information to you? Some people remain as sellers for years, many prefer the lower and mid tiers, others just like providing tech reliably for their alliance. I suspect some would like to start buying tech, but if all the old mid tier tech sellers started buying instead there would be nowhere near enough sellers for everyone. NPO recruits a lot, but it can't expect newbies to be reliable or to hang around for too long, so obviously keeping older nations as sellers is a must. I just looked at NPO's nation listings: 1st WTF!!?? You guys have like 100 ghosts! Either you approve people really slowly or you need to start booting people. 2nd It's harder to tell with some many nations near ZI due to war, but it seems like of their approved members there is about a 1:1 split between buyers and sellers, which is what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC123 Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 NSO has 2 active nations that are permanent tech sellers so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeguy Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 In war the lower tiers don't mean anything, It's the upper tier nations that win wars. These NPO nations that sell tech for years and years are hindering there alliance in war time. They could easily have been WRC / EMP wielding nations by now. But it's to the benefit of the upper tier nations that these guys never become tech buyers, so why would they say anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackatron Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 NSO has 2 active nations that are permanent tech sellers so... ...you end up buying a fair amount of tech from other alliances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auctor Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 I realize it's been a very long time since TPF bought tech, but one byproduct of the shrinking economy on this world is that alliances that want to continue building their upper tiers have had to have some nations forgo accruing tech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvon Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) ...you end up buying a fair amount of tech from other alliances. We export more than we import, however we mostly deal internally ... I'm not sure if you were trying to infer something based on us having 2 whole permanent sellers .. Or if that was just some sort of not-thought-out quip in thinking he was disagreeing with you with his remark that supports the opening lines of your previous post ... or if I'm just entirely misreading the course of dialogue here .... Money sent: from NSO to NSO $1,734,000,006 from NSO to others $585,000,000 Tech sent: from NSO to NSO 54,350 from NSO to others 12,600 Money received from other alliances $501,000,000 Tech sent to NSO from other alliances 3200 (From :wub: RI5 :wub: since January 1st, 2016; should be noted some aid transfers could be simply one-way aid for various FA purposes like war aid) (edit: got my in and out backwards lol) Edited April 12, 2016 by Rayvon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 In war the lower tiers don't mean anything, It's the upper tier nations that win wars. Right. These NPO nations that sell tech for years and years are hindering there alliance in war time. They could easily have been WRC / EMP wielding nations by now. But it's to the benefit of the upper tier nations that these guys never become tech buyers, so why would they say anything? No, you have this backwards. The tech banks make the upper tier stronger. Without them, the upper tier doesn't have enough tech to stay competitive. The thing about the banks is that damage done to them is largely superfluous. Assuming they have a billion or so, they can just bounce back to 8K infra postwar and keep on pumping out tech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge X Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Right. No, you have this backwards. The tech banks make the upper tier stronger. Without them, the upper tier doesn't have enough tech to stay competitive. The thing about the banks is that damage done to them is largely superfluous. Assuming they have a billion or so, they can just bounce back to 8K infra postwar and keep on pumping out tech. What he is trying to say is that they should at least have a full set of economic wonders and most military wonders even if they are tech farms. Not 4 years old, 5999 infrastructure, & 4 wonders. There is nothing wrong with being able to defend yourself during a war and packing on a warchest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 No, he said WRC/EMP nations. Both those two wonders have tech requirements, which would be pretty expensive to buy directly (especially the EMP). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeguy Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Right. No, you have this backwards. The tech banks make the upper tier stronger. Without them, the upper tier doesn't have enough tech to stay competitive. The thing about the banks is that damage done to them is largely superfluous. Assuming they have a billion or so, they can just bounce back to 8K infra postwar and keep on pumping out tech. We probably won't see eye to eye on this. In TPF we got rid of the idea of banks entirely. Every single nation should have the proper war chest to be able to aid out to other nations, if it's needed in war. This idea of tech banks is entirely new to me, I would argue that it's more important to invest there time in buying tech at a much earlier stage (around 3k - 4k infra) and be a productive member in your alliance during war time. I don't want any nations in my alliance to be merely superfluous, I want them to be good quality fighters, and in order for that to happen you must have a balanced infra:tech ratio. (OOC: I may try to clarify this point a little more tomorrow, It's been quite a day. Good night) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeguy Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 I realize it's been a very long time since TPF bought tech, but one byproduct of the shrinking economy on this world is that alliances that want to continue building their upper tiers have had to have some nations forgo accruing tech. Laziness on the part of a select few upper tier nations shouldn't hinder the growth of these "tech banks". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 It's not laziness. There aren't enough new nations available to act as tech providers; in order to continue the old rates of tech acquisition, you have to have some old nations continue to act as tech providers. It's simple math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge X Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 It's not laziness. There aren't enough new nations available to act as tech providers; in order to continue the old rates of tech acquisition, you have to have some old nations continue to act as tech providers. It's simple math. Then sit at 4k infra and buy wonders while you farm tech out. You can became a powerhouse in the lower tier while doing your job and building a massive warchest. Pure BS excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qazzian Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Then sit at 4k infra and buy wonders while you farm tech out. You can became a powerhouse in the lower tier while doing your job and building a massive warchest. Pure BS excuses. And you'll build a larger warchest with the extra income from the population at higher infrastructure. I'm not sure why you're so obsessed with the alliance building tactics we use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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