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Siberian Tiger Alliance Declaration


Tygaland
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You would be incorrect. Oculus itself posted the DoW through Pansy.

 

Also, I would like to direct you to the text of the Novus Ordo Seclorum treaty text that establishes that, "An attack on one signatory is an attack on all signatories." STA declared war on NPO, a single entity within Oculus, automatically declaring war on the rest of the alliances within Oculus. There is no need to activate any defensive clauses in this case. As such, it is well within Letum's rights to declare a recognition of hostilities on behalf of the Senate and People of Oculus.

 

Also Junka, you might have some reading comprehension problems worth looking into on this one.

 

Sounds like any MDAP bloc to me:

 

"The signatories are sovereign alliances bound together for the purpose of mutually beneficial action."

 

Therefore STA declared war on NPO, and the other signatories counter-attacked in response.

Edited by Immortan Junka
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Just want to clarify a thing or two.

 

ODN. Seems some in this thread and others are questioning ODN's character as an alliance. Bunch of crap. Since our signing ODN have been exemplary allies, always keeping the lines of communication open without compromising their commitments to their other allies. Every time a political issue arose they came to us to discuss. Whenever they were looking to sign a treaty with they came to us to discuss. A simple sign of respect which we appreciate. We discussed the upcoming war on multiple occasions long before it happened, we knew exactly where each other stood, because that is what allies do. I explained to OsRavan personally the STA would not expect or ask ODN to defend the STA in this conflict unless we were pre-emptively attacked. I hope this ends all the BS speculation regarding ODN.

 

NPO/TPF. It has been argued by various NPO members that as TPF and NPO are no longer allied and as such NPO owes TPF nothing, that ex allies fight each other all the time. That may be true however there are very few alliances which had such a long and storied relationship as TPF/NPO. Very few alliances which have stood by through thick and thin as TPF has for NPO. Oculus had more than enough firepower there was no need for Pacifica to declare a single offensive war against TPF. In no way shape or form would such a policy compromise the operational effectiveness of the offensive. NPO you easily could have stepped aside allowing other alliances to fight TPF as a sign of respect for your past relationship instead you chose otherwise. It was a PR blunder, I hope it comes to bite you in the ass. I am sorry for TPF that NPO members don't see how such a small gesture is a sign of respect for an ex ally who sacrificed so much for Pacifica.

 

To our allies in TPF and my fellow tigers. Fight with honor, fight with dignity.

 

Za Sibir!

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Just want to clarify a thing or two.
 
ODN. Seems some in this thread and others are questioning ODN's character as an alliance. Bunch of crap. Since our signing ODN have been exemplary allies, always keeping the lines of communication open without compromising their commitments to their other allies. Every time a political issue arose they came to us to discuss. Whenever they were looking to sign a treaty with they came to us to discuss. A simple sign of respect which we appreciate. We discussed the upcoming war on multiple occasions long before it happened, we knew exactly where each other stood, because that is what allies do. I explained to OsRavan personally the STA would not expect or ask ODN to defend the STA in this conflict unless we were pre-emptively attacked. I hope this ends all the BS speculation regarding ODN.
 
NPO/TPF. It has been argued by various NPO members that as TPF and NPO are no longer allied and as such NPO owes TPF nothing, that ex allies fight each other all the time. That may be true however there are very few alliances which had such a long and storied relationship as TPF/NPO. Very few alliances which have stood by through thick and thin as TPF has for NPO. Oculus had more than enough firepower there was no need for Pacifica to declare a single offensive war against TPF. In no way shape or form would such a policy compromise the operational effectiveness of the offensive. NPO you easily could have stepped aside allowing other alliances to fight TPF as a sign of respect for your past relationship instead you chose otherwise. It was a PR blunder, I hope it comes to bite you in the ass. I am sorry for TPF that NPO members don't see how such a small gesture is a sign of respect for an ex ally who sacrificed so much for Pacifica.
 
To our allies in TPF and my fellow tigers. Fight with honor, fight with dignity.
 
Za Sibir!


This is very well written.

Per your comments on ODN- it's more our planet, than their character.

Meanwhile- ODN will stare at the war screens and see their ally, STA, burn because they defended their ally from a digpile of forces who 'were bored'.

Really, Oculus was a good thing, as it brought actual anger to planet Bob- but no one bites.

ODN is currently preparing for the yearly world war where whoever has the most treaties wins.

Quite impersonal and quite boring. And with ODNs '1000 nation army'- it's quite selfish on their part.
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Just want to clarify a thing or two.
 
ODN. Seems some in this thread and others are questioning ODN's character as an alliance. Bunch of crap. Since our signing ODN have been exemplary allies, always keeping the lines of communication open without compromising their commitments to their other allies. Every time a political issue arose they came to us to discuss. Whenever they were looking to sign a treaty with they came to us to discuss. A simple sign of respect which we appreciate. We discussed the upcoming war on multiple occasions long before it happened, we knew exactly where each other stood, because that is what allies do. I explained to OsRavan personally the STA would not expect or ask ODN to defend the STA in this conflict unless we were pre-emptively attacked. I hope this ends all the BS speculation regarding ODN.
 
NPO/TPF. It has been argued by various NPO members that as TPF and NPO are no longer allied and as such NPO owes TPF nothing, that ex allies fight each other all the time. That may be true however there are very few alliances which had such a long and storied relationship as TPF/NPO. Very few alliances which have stood by through thick and thin as TPF has for NPO. Oculus had more than enough firepower there was no need for Pacifica to declare a single offensive war against TPF. In no way shape or form would such a policy compromise the operational effectiveness of the offensive. NPO you easily could have stepped aside allowing other alliances to fight TPF as a sign of respect for your past relationship instead you chose otherwise. It was a PR blunder, I hope it comes to bite you in the ass. I am sorry for TPF that NPO members don't see how such a small gesture is a sign of respect for an ex ally who sacrificed so much for Pacifica.
 
To our allies in TPF and my fellow tigers. Fight with honor, fight with dignity.
 
Za Sibir!

I agree with the second part but I have to echo LH here.

The point is that ODN is either actively plotting a war that gets you rolled for no reason other than boredom (if were being honest because they are preemptively taking out the oppositions potential coalition) or at the very least enabling it by standing aside and putting you in a position where you have to defend an ally without even the threat of them entering for you.

Just because they are open in communication (and old friends) doesn't mean they should be allies. Edited by Unknown Smurf
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First let me say hats off to STA. May your nukes never miss their targets. Always had great respect for you guys. 

 We discussed the upcoming war on multiple occasions long before it happened, we knew exactly where each other stood, because that is what allies do. I explained to OsRavan personally the STA would not expect or ask ODN to defend the STA in this conflict unless we were pre-emptively attacked. I hope this ends all the BS speculation regarding ODN.

This comment struck me as strange, Slim.

1. It seems you knew about the attack on TPF and MI6 well before it would happen...did you tell them? If not, why not?

2. Why would you give assurances to ODN that they would be relieved of any treaty obligations at all, but besides that why you tell them in advance of an unprovoked attack on your allies? 

3. It actually adds to the speculation regarding ODN. It makes them look like the middle man that everyone believes that they are. It appears as though your allies in ODN have enabled this to happen, and now they will stand by and watch as your alliance burns, your ally TPF burns, and their ally MI6 burns. To me, this is outrageous. 

 

The last paragraph of your post is  dead on. 

I agree with the second part but I have to echo LH here.

The point is that ODN is either actively plotting a war that gets you rolled for no reason other than boredom (if were being honest because they are preemptively taking out the oppositions potential coalition) or at the very least enabling it by standing aside and putting you in a position where you have to defend an ally without even the threat of them entering for you.

Just because they are open in communication (and old friends) doesn't mean they should be allies.

Precisely. Doesn't look good on them at all. Why is this considered acceptable by anyone?

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First let me say hats off to STA. May your nukes never miss their targets. Always had great respect for you guys. 

This comment struck me as strange, Slim.

1. It seems you knew about the attack on TPF and MI6 well before it would happen...did you tell them? If not, why not?

2. Why would you give assurances to ODN that they would be relieved of any treaty obligations at all, but besides that why you tell them in advance of an unprovoked attack on your allies? 

3. It actually adds to the speculation regarding ODN. It makes them look like the middle man that everyone believes that they are. It appears as though your allies in ODN have enabled this to happen, and now they will stand by and watch as your alliance burns, your ally TPF burns, and their ally MI6 burns. To me, this is outrageous. 

 

The last paragraph of your post is  dead on. 

Precisely. Doesn't look good on them at all. Why is this considered acceptable by anyone?

 

1) it was blatantly obvious that MI6 was a target for war, just a matter of when that war would be. This also means that TPF was going to be a target due to being allied to MI6. 

2) I cannot answer this but having known STA for many years now, STA is defending TPF in a war where they knew ODN would have allies on the opposite side. STA tends to not like putting its allies in a precarious position and thus, told ODN that given the nature of the war, they (STA) would not call on them for defense. 

3) Not sure how this is even remotely a thought to be honest. No one that I know of has thought ODN as any sort of middleman for this war. This was entirely Oculus (even pre-Oculus) and MI6. This war does not even have anything to do with TPF other than TPF allied MI6. 

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Going to agree with Doch on this one. Granting ODN status as a middle man for this conflict is stretching it. Pretty clear (to me anyway) that ODN have no real influence when it comes to this war and aren't really in a position to sway the tides of it. 

Poor choice of words on my part. Enabler, facilitator, are more what I meant. If ODN hadn't made assurances to their aggressive CB lacking allies that are now at war with STA and TPF, their aggressive CB lacking allies might have thought twice about a pre empte on TPF. But probably not. Nonetheless it is too late now.

Why bother even having the dang treaty ties if you aren't going to use them when they matter most? This has never ever made sense to me. And If anything by stating your intentions in advance regarding the treaty you actually make it easier for the opponent, because you know ODN told NPO what STA and ODN discussed in private.
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STA taking offense to the actions of Oculus as a bloc and then trying to single out a single entity within Oculus with the only reasoning being the actions of Oculus itself isn't crying for help it's STA attacking Oculus as a whole, hence the recognition of hostilities. STA can't determine one member of Oculus is more deserving of their attention than any other so they have to fight Oculus as a whole since their only justification is the actions of Oculus as a whole not NPO by itself.

You would be incorrect. Oculus itself posted the DoW through Pansy.
 
Also, I would like to direct you to the text of the Novus Ordo Seclorum treaty text that establishes that, "An attack on one signatory is an attack on all signatories." STA declared war on NPO, a single entity within Oculus, automatically declaring war on the rest of the alliances within Oculus. There is no need to activate any defensive clauses in this case. As such, it is well within Letum's rights to declare a recognition of hostilities on behalf of the Senate and People of Oculus.
 
Also Junka, you might have some reading comprehension problems worth looking into on this one.


STA remains in full control of its own actions regardless of what the Oculus treaty says. The Oculus treaty defines the relationship between its constituents, not between itself and the world--it extends no further than the AAs that signed it.
You may interpret STA's actions however you wish based in your relationship to each other, you cannot define STA's actions for them or make such boldly retarded statements as "STA can't determine..."

Aside from your fundamentally wrong understanding of how treaties work, it is hilarious to watch the pathetic way you're trying to e-lawyer your position in a war between a huge bloc and 3 isolated AAs. What's got ya scared?
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Aside from your fundamentally wrong understanding of how treaties work, it is hilarious to watch the pathetic way you're trying to e-lawyer your position in a war between a huge bloc and 3 isolated AAs. What's got ya scared?

I wonder.

Edited by Mogar
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It sounds like Oculus thinks it's just one big AA. Otherwise I fail to see how declaring war on one oculus member is literally the same as attacking all. Functionally the same? Treated the same? Sure. But that outcome still relies on e-paper to make it happen.

Obviously it's the same thing we said in Equilibrium, but it is one thing to say "we treat a declaration on one as a dec on all" and to say "you are not able to only declare on one of us" or to even decide t declare on one of us.  It's just silly given the scale of the NS ratios here, and we all know ODN already made up its mind, so who are they trying to impress or convince?

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It sounds like Oculus thinks it's just one big AA. Otherwise I fail to see how declaring war on one oculus member is literally the same as attacking all. Functionally the same? Treated the same? Sure. But that outcome still relies on e-paper to make it happen.

You're in Polar, who was in the EQ coalition -- and I'm fairly sure CoJ was as well.

I'm not sure you can really make this argument.
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