Dajobo Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 I can't and wont presume to speak for Polar but I can assume it is because Polar, MI6 and so on are deliberately kept outside the power structure so as to provide a "target" allowing certain alliances to create coalitions with a common purposes. I am sure retired daj (best daj) will be along shortly to expand upon why Polar remains where it remains but I would guess because Polar appear to be one of the more "principled" AAs in this realm along with their traditional allies. The only time it really changes is when the main power structure fractures and former allies turned enemies start looking for new allies to potentially defend against and attack their former allies. Or if an alliance decides to dramatically change its FA direction and reaches out to a previously untapped part of the web so as to improve its own standing against a potential threat. It has happened a few times and the cycle always repeats. I can only speak on my opinion here but you need remember in CN terms, Eatem hasn't had a long time to change things. Real treaties involve real discussions and unless there's a strong mutual benefit, they require some serious relationship building. That means lead time. The sides for this war have been set for a while now and the true delay is people building a large enough warchest that once again it will really be a war without repercussions. I take the credit/blame for Polar's current position and will expand coming from that angle. To be blunt, it's my opinion that the vast majority of the current hegemony are cowardly scum. They'd flip sides and sell their mothers to prevent being on a losing side. I think most Polar members would rather lose multiple wars then be aligned with them. I could be totally wrong as well, but it influenced my decisions. Think less about morals and more about principles and it will make sense. I'd love to say more but Eatem is a great guy and I don't wish to handicap him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 I can only speak on my opinion here but you need remember in CN terms, Eatem hasn't had a long time to change things. Real treaties involve real discussions and unless there's a strong mutual benefit, they require some serious relationship building. That means lead time. The sides for this war have been set for a while now and the true delay is people building a large enough warchest that once again it will really be a war without repercussions. I take the credit/blame for Polar's current position and will expand coming from that angle. To be blunt, it's my opinion that the vast majority of the current hegemony are cowardly scum. They'd flip sides and sell their mothers to prevent being on a losing side. I think most Polar members would rather lose multiple wars then be aligned with them. I could be totally wrong as well, but it influenced my decisions. Think less about morals and more about principles and it will make sense. I'd love to say more but Eatem is a great guy and I don't wish to handicap him! Pretty much this. o/Retirement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duderonomy Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 I disagree, Dajobo. Both NPO & NG burned for NSO in 2013. DBDC & NoR went to bat for NG in the same war. NSO returned the favor to NG in 2014. I know it's hard for you to remember the good times, but NpO had them. Sorry if our side didn't splinter like TOP hoped in 2013.They badly misjudged NG's willingness to flip sides at that time. Oh, um... Q: What was the outcome of this thread? A: Sengoku gets to Spy Another Day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dajobo Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) I disagree, Dajobo. Both NPO & NG burned for NSO in 2013. DBDC & NoR went to bat for NG in the same war. NSO returned the favor to NG in 2014. I know it's hard for you to remember the good times, but NpO had them. Sorry if our side didn't splinter like TOP hoped in 2013.They badly misjudged NG's willingness to flip sides at that time. Oh, um... Q: What was the outcome of this thread? A: Sengoku gets to Spy Another Day We're living the good times right now. We have fantastic members and allies and moral is very high. It's a lesson NG learned years ago, winning wars and being happy aren't necessarily connected. You know as well as I do though which alliances are in the hegemony for safety. Some have signed off on allies being hit multiple times to see they stayed safe. I don't believe anyone would include NG, NSO or NPO in that list, I know I wouldn't! Edited September 30, 2015 by Dajobo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shurukian Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 This is what happens when someone isn't able to post on the OWF for four years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles the Tyrant Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) I disagree, Dajobo. Both NPO & NG burned for NSO in 2013. DBDC & NoR went to bat for NG in the same war. NSO returned the favor to NG in 2014. I know it's hard for you to remember the good times, but NpO had them. Sorry if our side didn't splinter like TOP hoped in 2013.They badly misjudged NG's willingness to flip sides at that time. Oh, um... Q: What was the outcome of this thread? A: Sengoku gets to Spy Another Day NPO didn't burn for NSO. NPO burned because NPO were involved in the plot against Polar as were NG and NSO. And correct, TOP did misjudge NG's willingness to ditch IRON who knowingly betrayed NG and others for months in advance of the war which occurred. TOP and others assumed that NG would surely ditch the perpetrators of what was a terrible betrayal. TOP sadly underestimated the depths people will sink to in order to justify pixel security. Of course, old history now and such conduct has become quite the norm. Edited October 2, 2015 by Charles the Tyrant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander shepard Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 NPO didn't burn for NSO. NPO burned because NPO were involved in the plot against Polar as were NG and NSO. And correct, TOP did misjudge NG's willingness to ditch IRON who knowingly betrayed NG and others for months in advance of the war which occurred. TOP and others assumed that NG would surely ditch the perpetrators of what was a terrible betrayal. TOP sadly underestimated the depths people will sink to in order to justify pixel security. Of course, old history now and such conduct has become quite the norm. I thought you were still in MI6, disappointed in you. You're so bias it's ridiculous, "oh TOP's trying to manipulate us to fight a war for them after they just rolled us, why yes that does sound like a good move for us and won't result in TOP winning the game for the foreseeable future". I guess it's unfortunate since TOP fell on it's face and never got back up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) TOP manipulating you into a war where you're able to get revenge vs IRON straight up getting away with selling you out and manipulating you. I think I'll take the former.Let's not pretend NG/NPO did NSO a favor by taking the lumps all three earned, either. Edited October 2, 2015 by Neo Uruk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groucho Marx Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 I thought you were still in MI6, disappointed in you. You're so bias it's ridiculous, "oh TOP's trying to manipulate us to fight a war for them after they just rolled us, why yes that does sound like a good move for us and won't result in TOP winning the game for the foreseeable future". I guess it's unfortunate since TOP fell on it's face and never got back up. Let's not pretend that IRON did not completely and utterly set up Non Grata. Working with TOP was and would have been significantly better for them than continuing to be your ally after what you did to them. NG has never been an alliance to do the smart thing, unfortunately. They've grown accustomed to abusive relationships since that's the entire foundation for their alliance's existence and what has defined their relationships with their allies since founding. And yes, NPO was involved in plotting against NpO as well because enabling NG to pursue that agenda served their own purposes as well. This is already documented history and pretending otherwise is extremely disingenuous. You cannot ignore a true narrative just because it doesn't serve your purpose. In my view, the real tragedy for that war was the TOP-NpO coalition being unable to hold itself together or to secure a safe place for itself after the war. I think we'd have a more interesting dynamic in the world today if that coalition had managed to hold, but unfortunately there were some pretty glaring mistakes made during the war and in the reshuffling period afterward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duderonomy Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 I've always been an actions-oriented guy, rather than a words-oriented guy, because actions are always more honest. Granted, I have a relatively short memory thanks to my short time on Bob, but NoR, NPO, NSO, TLR, and DBDC have hung with NG in hard times. That is not forgotten . TOP shared screenshots of their forums with a known NG enemy so that NpO would have their precious CB. That was not the action of a friend, and was not forgotten after the war. IRON funded NG's rebuilding effort despite our outspoken hostility to them. That was money they could've been spent on tech or their own nations that instead went to a critic that very easily could have turned on them. Spending those resources on us instead of themselves could've come around to bite them in the butt. While it was not enough to keep a treaty IMO, it was something and far more than TOP ever offered. And you know what? It's worked out for NG so far. So it's possible that I was wrong, but only time and politics will tell. And to get back on topic, the actions of MI6 in this incident reveal a lot. They'd rather whine on the OWF in the hopes that someone else will fight for them than actually fight back. Q: What do I wish MI6 understood? A: The OWF is not enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 IRON funded NG's rebuilding effort despite our outspoken hostility to them.Well, some people would say that loyalty can't be bought.Those people would also say that Non Grata is a wreck of an alliance no matter its statistical standing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KahlanRahl Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 And to get back on topic, the actions of MI6 in this incident reveal a lot. They'd rather whine on the OWF in the hopes that someone else will fight for them than actually fight back. Q: What do I wish MI6 understood? A: The OWF is not enough. Ahaha, you have no idea how wrong this is. You can't even fathom how much the membership chomps at the bits when even the slightest whiff of blood reach our noses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 And yet, somehow, the leadership is not serving the will of the members apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duderonomy Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Well, some people would say that loyalty can't be bought. Those people would also say that Non Grata is a wreck of an alliance no matter its statistical standing. Some people also never really understand what money means. A friend that gives you food when you are hungry is a true friend. A friend that lets you stay at his place rent-free is also a true friend. A friend that helps you move into a new place without payment is also a true friend. Or the friend can just sacrifice their own resources (aka money) to get someone to help you with all three. Just because money is involved, does not change the action and intent behind them. Ahaha, you have no idea how wrong this is. You can't even fathom how much the membership chomps at the bits when even the slightest whiff of blood reach our noses. And yet, somehow, the leadership is not serving the will of the members apparently. ^. If a spyop is really considered warfare by MI6, then why has no one fought back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KahlanRahl Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 ^. If a spyop is really considered warfare by MI6, then why has no one fought back? Is this a serious question? Because responding to a tense situation guided by an emotional knee jerk reaction is amateur, disastrous and irresponsible. I too wanted to see MI6 respond with violence in the moment, but cooler heads prevailed. They've deemed we not fight, and I will follow that directive. Government exists for a reason, and I trust them to make the sound judgments required in situations like these, rather than jump when someone else says so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rileyaddaff Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Some people also never really understand what money means. A friend that gives you food when you are hungry is a true friend. A friend that lets you stay at his place rent-free is also a true friend. A friend that helps you move into a new place without payment is also a true friend. Or the friend can just sacrifice their own resources (aka money) to get someone to help you with all three. Just because money is involved, does not change the action and intent behind them.Would a true friend set you up and turn a blind eye to you getting rolled? Throwing money your way after you've burned more than that in said rolling is a sign of true friend? I see it as a token that represents you can still serve a purpose to them more than friendship. But, that's, like, my opinion, man. Edited October 2, 2015 by rileyaddaff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Some people also never really understand what money means. A friend that gives you food when you are hungry is a true friend. A friend that lets you stay at his place rent-free is also a true friend. A friend that helps you move into a new place without payment is also a true friend. Or the friend can just sacrifice their own resources (aka money) to get someone to help you with all three. Just because money is involved, does not change the action and intent behind them.The intent was to attempt to cover for that friend not only allowing people to trespass on your property, but steal the food that you were then in need of. IRON had offers of support if they entered on the side of NG, but they instead took the easier path -- a path which wouldn't have been so easy had they not helped forge it.However, we're getting far removed from the subject of MI6's inaction. PM me if you'd like to further discuss this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartfw Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 I for one, am glad that mi6 did not knee jerk attack NADC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxHouseArrestXx Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 I for one, am glad that mi6 did not knee jerk attack NADC. I for one, am glad that you are so fixated on NADC. I have a little suggestion for you, less focus on NADC and more focus on Sengoku, your own alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auctor Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 I for one, am glad that you are so fixated on NADC. I have a little suggestion for you, less focus on NADC and more focus on Sengoku, your own alliance. Don't blame hart, the word on the street is yall're the new Argent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartfw Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 I for one, am glad that you are so fixated on NADC. I have a little suggestion for you, less focus on NADC and more focus on Sengoku, your own alliance. This is a topic on people getting caught spying on mi6. Surely your skin can be thick enough to take 1 of 26 pages, given your alliance is 1 of 3 attempts? No? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunky Monkey Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Don't blame hart, the word on the street is yall're the new Argent. I'm not exactly sure how this is supposed to be an insult. I think Argent is a good alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartfw Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'm not exactly sure how this is supposed to be an insult. I think Argent is a good alliance. Those are fighting words. Argent is not merely a good alliance, but one of the greatest by far. My position on this has never wavered. But I don't really see how NADC's spy op relates to Argent at all, an Argent spy op would be justified and uncaught, while it appears this one was neither Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isolatar Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Those are fighting words. Argent is not merely a good alliance, but one of the greatest by far. My position on this has never wavered. But I don't really see how NADC's spy op relates to Argent at all, an Argent spy op would be justified and uncaught, while it appears this one was neither I don't see how calling NADC the "new Argent" is relevant to the spy ops either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunky Monkey Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 I don't know either. Maybe Auctor would like to answer for himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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