Judas Iscariot, out yourself...

[Walford]

War sounds fun.

 

I'm just quoting Bilrow because it's been a long time.

 

Carry on.

[Captain Enema]

 

I'm just quoting Bilrow because it's been a long time.

 

Carry on.

 

Brother, What about NONE????

 

:(

[shahenshah]

It's time to work through some chains so people can lie and deny. It will give us amusement later.

The worst kept secret on Bob right now is that MI6 are to be rolled. Let's look at the chains and ramifications though and we can play "spot the traitor".
When it's over, we can come back to this thread and see who nailed it.

First I'll make some basic assumptions.
Given the rumours of a hit on MI6 have been around and loud for a while now, it's safe to say savvy alliances like TPF, ODN and STA are aware of them.
TPF aren't an alliance to ignore treaties and their recent history shows they will enter on a losing side to honour them. Therefore we can assume TFP help MI6.
STA have been close to TPF for sometime now and IMO share a mentality that their word and their allies mean everything to them. Despite non-chaining clauses and irrespective of what relation does or does not exist between STA and MI6, if TPF are being pounded STA will help them.

So far this is just common sense, but now we get to the interesting bit.

ODN are MDP allies to STA and it's ODN's own allies who are likely to be doing the attacking. This raises a few question and is where we get to play guessing games.
Have ODN already signed off on this and will play the "non-chaining" card to leave STA in the lurch? IRON and Valhalla both have done this in recent wars and proven it is repercussion free.
Have ODN been great allies and is this very issue the reason it hasn't happened yet?
Is ODN being sold out by their own allies and told this isn't happening?
If this happened and ODN honoured their treaty with STA, would CnG still be an MADP bloc or would that be ignored?
Will we see the return of the Optional jokes?

Am I totally wrong in the first place? The best part of being retired is being out of the loop and able to speculate again :D

6/10. 3 for attempt, 7 for a relatively more interesting post not concerning micro, -4 for it being too transparent :/

Also, isn't retirement like the best thing?

[Finster Baby]

Being retired is wonderful.

 

It means I can tell Mogar to STFU and not give a crap about the repercussions.

 

/me goes to get the popcorn.

[Mogar]

I'll shut up once your alliance actually does something besides abandon allies simply to stay on the winning side.

[Commander shepard]

I'll shut up once your alliance actually does something besides abandon allies simply to stay on the winning side.

Perhaps I'm wrong but I don't think IRON was ever going to lose that war whatever side it entered on. 

[Stonewall14]

I'm not saying it's only Aztec Sengoku who is bad* for following DKs war start. But it is only Aztec Sengoku who is defining themselves as being honorable because while they didn't agree with DKs war start, they just followed treaties like they always do. (OOC: Combining what was said from both threads here) 

It pains you to say DS doesn't it O'mighthy Khan!?! Doom Squad started the Doom War and is still here Together As One with our Doom Family... :awesome:

[Geerland]

If only we all had the HoNOUr of Mogar. 

[IYIyTh]

Perhaps I'm wrong but I don't think IRON was ever going to lose that war whatever side it entered on. 

 

You're wrong. ;) come talk to me about it sometime if you want :)

[Mogar]

If only we all had the HoNOUr of Mogar. 

It'd require a willingness to actually stand by your convictions, something Pacifica sorely lacks sadly enough. Let me know next time you want to set up Umbrella to get rolled and pull out once they actually start taking damage though, I'm sure it'll end about as well.

[Commander shepard]

 

You're wrong. ;) come talk to me about it sometime if you want :)

Pop me a private message about it. 

[Isolatar]

 

I don't get it. We can all agree that MI6 isn't a challenge, so why take your time?

 

I like Mogar's answer but I'd like someone in Aztec to answer it. Why take your time?

[Auctor]

 

I like Mogar's answer but I'd like someone in Aztec to answer it. Why take your time?

 

Why not? They'll still be in the same position later.

[Isolatar]

 

Why not? They'll still be in the same position later.

 

By that logic, you could spy on any alliance, something I seriously doubt you're going to do.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Isolatar

[Auctor]

 

By that logic, you could spy on any alliance, something I seriously doubt you're going to do.

 

Most alliances in the game have not attempted to sign a treaty with us to make it easier to hit our other allies, either.

[Isolatar]

 

Most alliances in the game have not attempted to sign a treaty with us to make it easier to hit our other allies, either.

 

Most alliances in the game have also signed a treaty with their one of biggest threats to help take down another one, and I'm not just talking about MI6.

[Auctor]

 

Most alliances in the game have also signed a treaty with their one of biggest threats to help take down another one, and I'm not just talking about MI6.

 

That's a completely different scenario.

[Isolatar]

 

That's a completely different scenario.

 

Hardly. What makes MI6 so different to any other alliance? Being arrogant in public? Trying to play the game on their own terms? Having Myth on their AA? Please, do tell me.

[Auctor]

 

Hardly. What makes MI6 so different to any other alliance? Being arrogant in public? Trying to play the game on their own terms? Having Myth on their AA? Please, do tell me.

 

The difference is that they attempted to gain our trust so that they could then attack our allies without us defending them. The scenario you are describing is two former enemies fighting what they see as a bigger threat.

 

MI6 allying Sengoku so they can hit GLoF, DT, AB is not the same as Polar allying TOP so that they can both face NSO/NG. There's no comparison there. One is an underhanded attempt to trick an alliance you are trying to gain the trust of into neutralizing themselves, and the other is making a strategic choice to put differences aside and face a greater common threat.

[Gibsonator21]

 

The difference is that they attempted to gain our trust so that they could then attack our allies without us defending them. The scenario you are describing is two former enemies fighting what they see as a bigger threat.

 

MI6 allying Sengoku so they can hit GLoF, DT, AB is not the same as Polar allying TOP so that they can both face NSO/NG. There's no comparison there. One is an underhanded attempt to trick an alliance you are trying to gain the trust of into neutralizing themselves, and the other is making a strategic choice to put differences aside and face a greater common threat.

 

That may have been a realpolitik reason to treaty Sengoku at the time (according to those logs; I guess I wasn't gov at the time), but at a membership level, Sengoku was always one of our favorite alliances. When I was gov prior to that incident, Sengoku was always mentioned as someone we should get a treaty with because we liked you. We've got soo many personal relationships that go back a long time, that is just made sense for us to come together. So you can continue to say we only wanted you for realpolitik reasons, but that's not the case. Not at all. Sorry that you see it that way.

 

Funny enough, even if we did treaty, that war still would've happened, we still would've been rolled, a large part for our 'sphere' making some very stupid decisions. So get off your high horse dude. Nothing was ever about you, and it still isn't.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Gibsonator21

[Keres]

 

Most alliances in the game have not attempted to sign a treaty with us to make it easier to hit our other allies, either.

 

This again really? I thought the other thread established this is bullshit. Reading is hard.

[Auctor]

 

That may have been a realpolitik reason to treaty Sengoku at the time (according to those logs; I guess I wasn't gov at the time), but at a membership level, Sengoku was always one of our favorite alliances. When I was gov prior to that incident, Sengoku was always mentioned as someone we should get a treaty with because we liked you. We've got soo many personal relationships that go back a long time, that is just made sense for us to come together. So you can continue to say we only wanted you for realpolitik reasons, but that's not the case. Not at all. Sorry that you see it that way.

 

Funny enough, even if we did treaty, that war still would've happened, we still would've been rolled, a large part for our 'sphere' making some very stupid decisions. So get off your high horse dude. Nothing was ever about you, and it still isn't.

 

It's nice to think your membership had different reasons, but your government was still your government. That's the decision making body in your alliance. If they say that's their intent, then that's what the alliance's intention as a whole is.

 

 

 

This again really? I thought the other thread established this is !@#$%^&*. Reading is hard.

 

That's because regardless of how many times you keep repeating it, the proof still exists that it did happen. When I've seen MI6 actually address that in some way that isn't just "pfft, everyone does that and it's totally normal", then fine. We can start building trust that doesn't exist right now.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Auctor

[IYIyTh]

hahaha

Edited September 29, 2015 by IYIyTh

[Gibsonator21]

It's nice to think your membership had different reasons, but your government was still your government. That's the decision making body in your alliance. If they say that's their intent, then that's what the alliance's intention as a whole is.



That's because regardless of how many times you keep repeating it, the proof still exists that it did happen. When I've seen MI6 actually address that in some way that isn't just "pfft, everyone does that and it's totally normal", then fine. We can start building trust that doesn't exist right now.

You're not getting me. We've always liked Sengoku, and wanted a real relationship for a long time. What you're seeing is that at one point there was an added benefit to treatying you guys, and you're continuing to think that at all times MI6 has been solely out to use Sengoku to better ourselves. That couldn't be further from the truth.
 
The members who thought to do that in the first place aren't decision makers anymore. Half are residing in your alliance or with allies; Chimaera is our Econ Director, while Stagger Lee is of the same mindset I am regarding you guys. We've already been rolled for the things laid out in that set of logs; our gov is different, we've had a year of self-reflecting on where we went wrong. We've tried speaking with you, but you guys have shown multiple times you're not interested in that. You've shown you'd rather poke and prod at us than actually do something to alleviate your "anger." I'm not sure what you want.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Gibsonator21

[Dochartaigh]

 

The difference is that they attempted to gain our trust so that they could then attack our allies without us defending them. The scenario you are describing is two former enemies fighting what they see as a bigger threat.

 

MI6 allying Sengoku so they can hit GLoF, DT, AB is not the same as Polar allying TOP so that they can both face NSO/NG. There's no comparison there. One is an underhanded attempt to trick an alliance you are trying to gain the trust of into neutralizing themselves, and the other is making a strategic choice to put differences aside and face a greater common threat.

 

Actually from what I have seen and heard, we wanted to ally Sengoku because we liked y'all and you liked us. The benefit would have been the fact that your allies would have a harder time hitting us not for us to be able to hit them. If you want someone to go after for actively planning to roll Aztec- go after TOP/Sparta but given their ties, you are far too chickenshit to do that. So you continue to whine and pout like a little girl about how bad and evil MI6 is. Have fun bro, keep looking like you are 1st grade tough guy. Doin Aztec proud!