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King Obsidian

Make 100 Million Start up Permanent

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Keep 100 million Warchest to start the Round as a Permanent CN:TE item.  Why? 

 

Because it grants the Ruler more freedom to build his or her Nation how they choose without having to play the "wait 10 or 20 days" game before you consider going to war. In a 60 day Tournament, 15 or 20 days of building followed by 5 days of war, and then days of building is not good for the future of the game.  That 100 Million starter money allows the Rulers, and not the limited Sirplus of the game at the beginning of a round to determine whether or not war happens early.  The Rulers choose to wait and grow or to fight.  The Rulers choose to be Nuke capable early or to spend their Sirplus in other areas.  I like the idea that the Rulers choose rather than feel forced to wait 1/3 of a round by the circumstance of a smaller 10 million sirplus.

 

The extra $$ did not seem to change the strategy element of the game.  The Rulers that understood how to build, did so quite well.  Those of us who did not, had building, re-building, and warchests issues like any other round.  At the end of the day, the extra $$ did not give any one an unfair advantage, it just allowed people who do not play CN:SE or who are only big enough to sell tech or may otherwise never grow a nation to 30,000 or above NS a chance to play big nation games.

 

 

Edited for spelling only.

Edited by King Obsidian

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http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/127060-mega-round-36-100mil-wcs/?view=getnewpost

See here for why I and others oppose this.

As I said there, I wouldn't object to alternating it each round; one with 100,000,000 the next with 10,000,000 etc. Would go a long way towards making each round more varied.

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I think alternating would be better. Larger SE nations also play this, and every war they fight is nuclear. The 10m start-up allows for those nations to experience the fun of a non-nuclear war in the first part of the round.

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I think alternating would be better. Larger SE nations also play this, and every war they fight is nuclear. The 10m start-up allows for those nations to experience the fun of a non-nuclear war in the first part of the round.

 

True, but they can still have that experience if they choose.  For example, I am not a nuclear nation in CN:TE based on my own choice and not game cirumstances forcing me.  You can build in other areas and do not have to go nuclear right away. The extra cash just gives every ruler the freedom to make the choice for themselves.  As a super power within SE, you can come to TE and choose to go nuclear or not.

 

Alternating starter sirplus is not a terrible idea, but I do not think it adds to the TE experience.  If anything, it is gonna increase the learning curve for newer TE rulers who are trying to find how they want to play the game; particularly if you walk them back from 100 million to 10 million sirplus.  That 90 million decrease is gonna hurt the newer TE rulers.  Obviously game participation has to grow if TE is gonna remain viable.  

 

The TE veterans are here to stay, 10 mill, 25 mill, 50 mill, 100 mill.  Some of you have been around since 2008 I bet.  But you need "new blood", and you need to be able to retain new membership in the game.  I think a small part of doing that would be to keep the 100 million sirplus.  

 
You are right, I am a lonely voice on this issue.  It seems that most of those that have replied would disagree with me, and that is perfectly okay.

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True, but they can still have that experience if they choose.  For example, I am not a nuclear nation in CN:TE based on my own choice and not game cirumstances forcing me.  You can build in other areas and do not have to go nuclear right away. The extra cash just gives every ruler the freedom to make the choice for themselves.  As a super power within SE, you can come to TE and choose to go nuclear or not.

 

I can see what you're saying here. However, the chance for a non-nuclear war could be taken from you. Look at the beginning of this round: TDO built the economic way, without obtaining Manhattan Projects. And then D1/RE rolled us, having total nuclear supremacy. Whether or not we wished to experience a non-nuclear war, a nuclear one was forced upon us. I imagine if the 100m was permanent, this would happen round after round. Not necessarily to TDO, and not necessarily by D1/RE, but it would happen.

 

Alternating with lower startup funds both allows those who wish war to be nuclear from Day 1, and those who want to fight in a totally non-nuclear war. Win win.

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I can see what you're saying here. However, the chance for a non-nuclear war could be taken from you. Look at the beginning of this round: TDO built the economic way, without obtaining Manhattan Projects. And then D1/RE rolled us, having total nuclear supremacy. Whether or not we wished to experience a non-nuclear war, a nuclear one was forced upon us.

You are right, but that is the beauty of the game too! Being a non-nuclear nation facing nuclear nations is where players can find an extremely fun challenge. My poor building skills and my garbage warchest hurt me more during war than any of the nukes that hit my nation. And After a couple of days, everyone @ war is in anarchy anyway.

Nukes are a powerful war mechanism of the game for sure, but choosing not to purchase the MP and buy nukes has made the game really fun for me.

To your point, perhaps nukes should be harder to obtain regardless of new nation sirplus. That way, you can have 100 mill @ the start and not have to worry about being in nuclear anarchy on day 8 of the tournament. Edited by King Obsidian

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To your point, perhaps nukes should be harder to obtain regardless of new nation sirplus. That way, you can have 100 mill @ the start and not have to worry about being in nuclear anarchy on day 8 of the tournament.

 

Agreed, 100%. I would have had no worries with this level of money if the MP was more expensive, to balance things.

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10 million dollars and 100 million dollars allows for different strategic decisions to be made and it is for this that I hope the game will continue, in its present form, but alternating between those two values.

Indeed, I support the current nuclear status quo because it has strategic ramifications; alliances must decide between an economic and a military focus; if they militarise too early, they lose out on potential WC, while if they militarise too late, they will find themselves in a war they are not ready for. If you increase the price of nukes (or, even worse, add that proposed SSDI wonder) you will remove this decision and thus make the game a shallower one.

Beyond the strategic decisions, which are admittedly limited to a small number of players (though, at least in my experience, of interest to the alliance as a whole) the differing cash levels will have a significant effect on the game each individual plays; at a hundred million, nations are more uniform and the game feels more like SE. At ten millions there are considerably more valid builds and this makes for a game that feels very different to SE. 100 million also lends itself to longer wars, such as those experiences in TE, while 10 million results in shorter wars as longer ones would result in mutual annihilation.

The ten million/hundred million divide also leads to different types of warfare; with one hundred million the warfare is closer to what is experienced in the upper tier, while ten million is closer to what is experienced in the bottom tier, and while yes, it is, to some extent, a choice to fight in the SE upper tier you need to take into account that the SE upper tier represents the greatest concentration of active players, the sorts of players that TE needs if it wishes to continue going strong, and most of those players don't really want wars that are similar to those they fight in SE.

Ps. Apologies if this is rambling or incoherent, undersized phone screen makes it hard to assemble a proper argument

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Caladin, alternating between 10 and 100 million will hurt the learning curve of new nations; particularly when they play the 100 million round and then have to pause learning how to play starting with 100 million and start learning how to play with 90 million less than the previous round.  I have other issues with alternating the starter surplus but this is my main issue.

 

The decision making process of knowing when to focus economically or militarily will be enhanced and not damaged by the proposed SSDI wonder, and with a 100 million dollar surplus the MP and the proposed SSDI should be just a bit more expensive in my opinion.

 

Super power SE players are the mainstays of Cybernations and are probably what have laid the foundation for the continuation of the games, but if these games (TE & SE) are going to stay around, they must thrive. American football is the Mega game it is because of the casual fans. Yes, the hardcore fans are important and should never ever be cast aside, but casual fans drop a nice coin in the NFL's collection basket.  So you can't just focus on the 20 at the top. 100 million is a great positive incentive for Nations to war sooner and more often.  If Rulers are bored with Standard Edition warfare then Tournament Edition can't fix that.  But if SE Rulers are bored with peace mode, selling and buying tech, politics, backlogging 15 days at a time, and collecting taxes all without warring for most of the year if at all then TE should be the solution to that!  100 million is a good start, and we should not be walking back but moving forward.

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Well, I think TE has found a new life w/100 mil warhcest start.  Also a super great addition would be the SSDI.  Let's make it happen!

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Well, I think TE has found a new life w/100 mil warhcest start.  Also a super great addition would be the SSDI.  Let's make it happen!


To be clear, the influx of nations this round had nothing to do with the fact that the starting money was increased.

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Whatever happens, if the start up cash does not return to 10 million next round, then spy operations and donations need to have their values modified.

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Ya think we could get a heads up Admin?  Be nice to know which way this next round starts!  Great Game

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