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WASP was clearly a SRA ally, causing an escalation even after the Dreamweaver attack. Not only was I under attack, but also my lower tier was under attack when already up against nuclear nations.

 

From my point of view, there was war as soon as Dreamweaver declared. I tried to deescalate it, but instead I saw more attacks and your refusal to do anything about it. Due to our mutual ties with Kashmir, I wanted to deescalate rather than escalate, but you made clear since you thought we had no friends, you didn't mind allowing a clear act of war against our AA to continue. You thought Limitless Nexus should just take it, because you saw our position as vulnerable.

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WASP was clearly a SRA ally, causing an escalation even after the Dreamweaver attack. Not only was I under attack, but also my lower tier was under attack when already up against nuclear nations.

 

From my point of view, there was war as soon as Dreamweaver declared. I tried to deescalate it, but instead I saw more attacks and your refusal to do anything about it. Due to our mutual ties with Kashmir, I wanted to deescalate rather than escalate, but you made clear since you thought we had no friends, you didn't mind allowing a clear act of war against our AA to continue. You thought Limitless Nexus should just take it, because you saw our position as vulnerable.

Ladies and gentlemen, another fabulous representation of Methrage's debate skills:

He presents a timeline full of skewed facts, half-truths, and false accusations of double-standards.

Is presented with FACTS in red that undermine his entire argument.

 

Responds by ignoring all facts that disprove his point, picks one statement in a wall of text that he thinks he can make hay with, and tries to shift focus to that like a bad magician.

 

And let's not forget that his timeline was born of distracting from a different argument of his that fell to facts.

 

I will now take my bow, take my leave, and let Meth's allies wonder how diplomacy could have gone so poorly. 

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[URL=http://s227.photobucket.com/user/Methrage/media/sra_zpsmn0l8xcz.jpg.html]th_sra_zpsmn0l8xcz.jpg[/URL]

 

In your own words, you said your alliance's attack on us was a clear act of war, in any rational leader's book. That you continued to condone his attacks even after recognizing this, against the leader of another alliance no less, showed diplomacy was severely lacking on the SRA end. You were counting on us either being completely passive despite the clear act of war, which continued against me with your permission, or on us having no friends; so it didn't matter how you decided to deal with us.

Edited by Methrage
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vandel, before trying to claim the morale high ground, I would always suggest not throwing away diplomatic attempts to resolve this. I messaged you to keep this entire situation from even occuring, your response was to crumble the message and delete it.

 

I messaged Ceres who responded back on top of other words, acknowledged that no such ODP even exists to TSO. This combined with the fact that you can not be bothered to respond to a diplomatic warning shows that you will not learn except by force not to aid enemy combatants.

 

If TSO does choose to negotiate on your behalf, we can always talk to them, but you haven't even tried to do this for yourself other than your two spy attacks

Edited by Lurunin
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vandel, before trying to claim the morale high ground, I would always suggest not throwing away diplomatic attempts to resolve this. I messaged you to keep this entire situation from even occuring, your response was to crumble the message and delete it.
 
I messaged Ceres who responded back on top of other words, acknowledged that no such ODP even exists to TSO. This combined with the fact that you can not be bothered to respond to a diplomatic warning shows that you will not learn except by force not to aid enemy combatants.
 
If TSO does choose to negotiate on your behalf, we can always talk to them, but you haven't even tried to do this for yourself other than your two spy attacks


Again, Ceres is not in TSO gov. Probably stop talking to him about alliance affairs he knows nothing about. ElPresidente is their leader and we have an ODP which he announced on the OWF.

I deleted your message and did what you asked. You asked me not to aid your enemies and I have not done that upon your request.

Then you attacked me... Hmmm

I would love to negotiate... You have not brought anything to the table... But I guess I could.

Messages follow in game.
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vandel, before trying to claim the morale high ground, I would always suggest not throwing away diplomatic attempts to resolve this. I messaged you to keep this entire situation from even occuring, your response was to crumble the message and delete it.
 
I messaged Ceres who responded back on top of other words, acknowledged that no such ODP even exists to TSO. This combined with the fact that you can not be bothered to respond to a diplomatic warning shows that you will not learn except by force not to aid enemy combatants.
 
If TSO does choose to negotiate on your behalf, we can always talk to them, but you haven't even tried to do this for yourself other than your two spy attacks


Again, Ceres is not in TSO gov. Probably stop talking to him about alliance affairs he knows nothing about. ElPresidente is their leader and we have an ODP which he announced on the OWF.

I deleted your message and did what you asked. You asked me not to aid your enemies and I have not done that upon your request.

Then you attacked me... Hmmm

I would love to negotiate... You have not brought anything to the table... But I guess I could.

Messages follow in game.
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If TSO refuses to back you and PPO tries pressuring you not to fight back (or gives you a hard time), feel free to join Limitless Nexus if you want to fight back. We're both under aggressive attack from the same 2 alliances, so your wars wouldn't be an issue. I'll be happy to consider you among our allies if you find yourself in need.

 

If you do fight, you don't need to fight alone.

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So wait a second y'all attacked him and now you are trying to prohibit him from fighting back?
 
That is truly sleazy and you should really eat a boatload of nukes for it.


Where did you see any where that i stated we are prohibiting him from fighting back? It was his choice to only send spy attacks and nothing else.
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Where did you see any where that i stated we are prohibiting him from fighting back? It was his choice to only send spy attacks and nothing else.

Lulu -- don't.  Just don't engage.  Waste of time and pixels.  You could have a photo of yourself not prohibiting this notarized by Barack Obama under sodium pentothal and he'll just deny it.  Or ignore it. Or change the subject.  Proof is only necessary to those willing to show or see the truth.

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Lulu -- don't.  Just don't engage.  Waste of time and pixels.  You could have a photo of yourself not prohibiting this notarized by Barack Obama under sodium pentothal and he'll just deny it.  Or ignore it. Or change the subject.  Proof is only necessary to those willing to show or see the truth.

Because you're so full of truth... Right.

 

You aggressively attack us, refuse to have your members peace out and try to spin it in every other direction you can. You dodge any real issues by bringing up the irrelevant, then accuse everyone else of doing so. How far SRA has fallen. You overplayed your hand in thinking SRA could attack and ignore the sovereignty of alliances who are smaller than your own and who you perceive as less connected at will, now your alliance has taken damage as a result. Now you want to blame everyone other than yourself. Even Xanth and the rest of your Gov was smart enough to want to accept peace when III% negotiated you guys peace out at the same time, but your ego made you continue your war of aggression and the nations of SRA have taken heavy damage as a result.

 

You've got the nations of SRA stuck in a war of aggression where they are taking heavy losses, only to satisfy your own ego.

Edited by Methrage
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hey, we should be thanking Meth right now people. He is bringing all the nutjobs out of hiding...

 

I was reading this thread, thinking to myself, who are these people.  Then Doch came along and cleared it up for me.  Nutjobs.

 

 

Thanks man.  I seriously should have just skipped to the end and saved myself confusion.

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I want to go on the record and blame GOONS for what were seeing today, I do. The second they got rid of shark week a rapid decline in etiquette, logic and reason went out the window and the dumbing down of digiteria has been the order of the day.

Aiding anyone who is a state of war with another alliance is and always has been an act of war, however people have argued the tech deal commitment rant and we'll I'm not going to get into that one, you send 9kk 100 tech and 4000 soldiers, you know exactly what your doing as a matter of fact the OP told Esoteric himself it was damn good reason to go to war, which begs my next question.

When he reads how you bashed my former alliance into the ground publicly, who I know for a fact treated your people with the utmost respect, not nuked even after a quad attack because we sought to end the conflict, do you think he may want to resign his position and join SRA? Do you think the social niceties you were granted before would take place now ? 

Ponder that while you reflect on this poorly written post and cry for help. 
 

Edited by Freelancer
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No one deserves to be attacked out of the blue, and if this was truly out of the blue i'd be a vocal supporter of you, vandelsand; but, you aren't being attacked out of the blue. Optional treaties aren't meant to stop someone from attacking you, it's the option of having someone defend you. You can't fully expect another alliance to respect an option, especially if the figurehead says, as the kids say, "or nah" about your treaty. I'm really sorry you were attacked, and you shouldn't be raked over the coals for this. Saying what I have before, I would welcome you to our collective providing (you obtain peace prior) you understand a few things about not going out of your way to harm yourself more, especially with topics of this nature. Or if you would like a true third party to help you negotiate peace, my door, as well as our doors are always open to people seeking asylum. 

Edited by Alonso Quixano
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Can someone summarise this micro drama?

 

Monsters Inc declares war on TSO

CA also ends up at war with TSO

vendalsand leaves TSO and makes a one-man AA

CA signs treaty with vendalsand

TSO signs optional level treaty with vendalsand (maybe)

SRA and LN find themselves at war

TSO tells vendalsand to cut relations with CA

vendalsand complies while also sending financial aid to LN, major broker of Monsters Inc and CA

SRA/PPO tell vendalsand to not send financial aid to LN

vendalsand may or may not have complied

SRA and PPO attack vendalsand

vendalsand is upset that TSO refuses to activate the optional treaty

 

This is the pruned version that cut out the hows and whys of major points, like the entire III%-LN war's relation to SRA being at war with LN.

 

If I missed an important point or if I borked one, please let me know so it can be edited in the official five hundred page timeline detailing this saga being drawn up by Bob's finest scribes.

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If I missed an important point or if I borked one, please let me know so it can be edited in the official five hundred page timeline detailing this saga being drawn up by Bob's finest scribes.

 

Everyone is entitled to a good borking when they can get one.

 

To the point of this post:

The Screaming Red Asses recognize that aiding an alliance at war is an act of war in itself, and that the dates that the overt war aid ($, Tech and Troops) sent by Vandelsand has been conclusively proven to have been delivered after Limited Nexus and Monsters. Inc. had attacked.  Therefore, we have a valid CB.

However, after investigation we decided that a reasonable person may conclude that  the war aid was actually sent to Limited Nexus for their war against III%, and Vandelsand may have been completely unaware of Limited Nexus and Monsters, Inc. engagement of the Red Asses.

Therefore, peace has been ordered to be sent to Vandelsand as long as no further aid to AA's fighting SRA or Kashmir is attempted.

 

TL;DR:  We had a valid CB against Vandelsand, but realized that just because you have a right to do something, it still may not be the right thing to do.

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Monsters Inc declares war on TSO
CA also ends up at war with TSO
vendalsand leaves TSO and makes a one-man AA
CA signs treaty with vendalsand
TSO signs optional level treaty with vendalsand (maybe)
SRA and LN find themselves at war
TSO tells vendalsand to cut relations with CA
vendalsand complies while also sending financial aid to LN, major broker of Monsters Inc and CA
SRA/PPO tell vendalsand to not send financial aid to LN
vendalsand may or may not have complied
SRA and PPO attack vendalsand
vendalsand is upset that TSO refuses to activate the optional treaty
 
This is the pruned version that cut out the hows and whys of major points, like the entire III%-LN war's relation to SRA being at war with LN.
 
If I missed an important point or if I borked one, please let me know so it can be edited in the official five hundred page timeline detailing this saga being drawn up by Bob's finest scribes.


Gotta say this war seems complex :-|
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Man you all are doing this right. Keep poking Methface. He makes awesome random garbling sounds as his arguments.

Also I need to point out I that every time this happened with us, EVERY TIME, you all tried to say we were in the wrong and Methface was just misunderstood.

Now I think you get it. I think you get it very well.

Edited by KenMorningstar
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Honestly, his gargling sounds are starting to annoy me.  He didn't like that people sold down to hit him, but then he, a heavily wondered nuclear nation is having his way with our nations that have no wonders.  So, as soon as my current wars end, I'm gonna sell all my infra and drop an EMP on him.  6 times.  Then we'll see if he shuts up or screams.

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