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Stabbing allies right in the back


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To the OP: Oh quit your bitching, it's not like you are getting PZI'd like in the olden days..... Fight your war, take it up your rear, and then recover after it's over. Take it like a man.

Also one man alliances will never get you far.... After this conflict is concluded and all debts are paid, look to a real alliance.

Edited by Hunterman1043
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Nope. Your information is wrong. Ceres refused to treaty with me. I then looked for other options.

Ceres is eating your alliance from the inside out. Who is in charge over there? I look forward to hearing from your gov to see if they will honor their treaty with me.

 

 

You have clearly not been paying attention. 

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I'm not government so...
 
Anyways, you're a one-man-AA who attacks SRA, and you didn't expect a nation to declare on you?


in all fairness he didn't attack us. He is aiding the enemy after they themselves kicked his ass last month. We saw this as putting him out of his misery.

That said he is lucky tso (elprez) is willing to negotiate on his behalf. What will come of it, I don't know. Edited by Xanth
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in all fairness he didn't attack us. He is aiding the enemy after they themselves kicked his ass last month. We saw this as putting him out of his misery.

That said he is lucky tso (elprez) is willing to negotiate on his behalf. What will come of it, I don't know.

I didn't attack anyone. The facts are stated in the OP and they remain the facts.

I haven't even countered yet.

I never aided your enemies. I aided LN during their war with III% and they were not at war with anyone else at the time. This war against me is completely unjustified.

Also, we had a white peace with III% and I delivered more damage than they did.

You seem to continue in your confusion.

This seems to be a war of SRA aggression.

Still waiting for a response from TSO. I look forward to them honoring their treaty, but as I previously stated it is an ODP. Edited by vandelsand
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1) Public callout of ally for not honoring treaty.
 
2) Reiteration that said treaty is entirely optional.
 
3) ???
 
4) Profit


I was calling them out for "Ceres said it was okay."

Ceres is not gov... And they are my allies... So why would he tell PPO to attack me? Feels like a stab in the back.
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I didn't attack anyone. The facts are stated in the OP and they remain the facts.

I haven't even countered yet.

I never aided your enemies. I aided LN during their war with III% and they were not at war with anyone else at the time. This war against me is completely unjustified.

Also, we had a white peace with III% and I delivered more damage than they did.

You seem to continue in your confusion.

This seems to be a war of SRA aggression.

Still waiting for a response from TSO. I look forward to them honoring their treaty, but as I previously stated it is an ODP.

Seems to me SRA is now admitting they were engaged in a war with me back when I was fighting Dreamweaver, when before they claimed that war Dreamweaver had on me didn't count as our alliances being at war.

 

When justifying aggression against me they say SRA was not at war with me (as they were attacking), when justifying aggression against you they say SRA was at war with me back then. Seems they can't keep their facts straight, since all their arguments on not being the aggressors in all this can't hold up to reality..

 

 

Methrage, can you confirm that this is, indeed, the moment?

This is indeed the moment for TSO.

Edited by Methrage
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I was told TSO cleared it afaik. 

If that is not true, then not countering definitely might help. 

 

Though I'd really like to know who spy'd me :P

 

 

 

Edit - changed my mind.

Edited by gowfanatic
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Seems to me SRA is now admitting they were engaged in a war with me back when I was fighting Dreamweaver, when before they claimed that war Dreamweaver had on me didn't count as our alliances being at war.

 

When justifying aggression against me they say SRA was not at war with me (as they were attacking), when justifying aggression against you they say SRA was at war with me back then. Seems they can't keep their facts straight, since all their arguments on not being the aggressors in all this can't hold up to reality..

 

 

Meth, Meth, Meth.

 

It must be fun saying things like "I am fighting for Liberty and Freedom" and "SRA can't keep the facts straight in their war of aggression",  the problem is that the actual, verifiable, proven facts completely countermand what you say.

 

I don't have time for screen shots, but let me just ask you three questions:

 

1.  What date did LN attack any SRA nation other than Dre4m?

 

2.  What date and time did Monsters, Inc. blitz SRA?

 

3.  What date and time did Vandelsand send you aid?

 

I'll bet you don't answer, because you cannot concede any wrongdoing.  These facts are untwistable, and you refuse to deal in facts that cannot be twisted.  I'll answer for you in a bit if you can't be bothered.

 

EDIT:  I will PM you to alert you to this thread so you don't miss it!

Edited by Walshington
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Meth, Meth, Meth.

 

It must be fun saying things like "I am fighting for Liberty and Freedom" and "SRA can't keep the facts straight in their war of aggression",  the problem is that the actual, verifiable, proven facts completely countermand what you say.

 

I don't have time for screen shots, but let me just ask you three questions:

 

1.  What date did LN attack any SRA nation other than Dre4m?

 

2.  What date and time did Monsters, Inc. blitz SRA?

 

3.  What date and time did Vandelsand send you aid?

 

I'll bet you don't answer, because you cannot concede any wrongdoing.  These facts are untwistable, and you refuse to deal in facts that cannot be twisted.  I'll answer for you in a bit if you can't be bothered.

Your members were both waging war on our AA from SRA and also ghosting Doom Squad to attack our lower tier, while maintaining their positions in SRA and not under the command of Stonewall14. You can try spinning facts all you want, but your members (including high Gov) were attacking me; as well as my lower tier by ghosting others at war with me.

 

Even if I were to count those ghosting DS to war our lower tier as not technically under attack from SRA, Dreamweaver was already attacking me from your AA. If you want to try saying it was just Dreamweaver alone attacking, then I can point Xanth, who was jumping AAs to get hits in our lower tier while I was stuck in nuclear anarchy and unable to respond. When right away Xanth is back to his Gov position of representing your alliance as soon as he jumps back to SRA after we peace DS, trying to say Xanth wasn't SRA is an obvious huge stretch.

 

So either way you look at it, Dreamweaver and others in your alliance were attacking us in all tiers, while we were under attack from several different alliances covering all our tiers.

Edited by Methrage
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Now, Meth, let's not avoid the questions.  You made the following assertion as if it were fact:

Seems to me SRA is now admitting they were engaged in a war with me back when I was fighting Dreamweaver, when before they claimed that war Dreamweaver had on me didn't count as our alliances being at war.

 

When justifying aggression against me they say SRA was not at war with me (as they were attacking), when justifying aggression against you they say SRA was at war with me back then. Seems they can't keep their facts straight, since all their arguments on not being the aggressors in all this can't hold up to reality..

 

 

This is indeed the moment for TSO.

 

Then I said:

1.  What date did LN attack any SRA nation other than Dre4m?

 

2.  What date and time did Monsters, Inc. blitz SRA?

 

3.  What date and time did Vandelsand send you aid?

 

I'll bet you don't answer, because you cannot concede any wrongdoing.  These facts are untwistable, and you refuse to deal in facts that cannot be twisted.  I'll answer for you in a bit if you can't be bothered.

 

EDIT:  I will PM you to alert you to this thread so you don't miss it!

 

Go ahead and answer, I'll wait.

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Now, Meth, let's not avoid the questions.  You made the following assertion as if it were fact:

 

Then I said:

1.  What date did LN attack any SRA nation other than Dre4m?

 

2.  What date and time did Monsters, Inc. blitz SRA?

 

3.  What date and time did Vandelsand send you aid?

 

I'll bet you don't answer, because you cannot concede any wrongdoing.  These facts are untwistable, and you refuse to deal in facts that cannot be twisted.  I'll answer for you in a bit if you can't be bothered.

 

EDIT:  I will PM you to alert you to this thread so you don't miss it!

 

Go ahead and answer, I'll wait.

If we go under the conventional standards of someone still being a member of your alliance if they still retain full masking as a member on your forum, then the attacks from your alliance beyond Dreamweaver came way earlier. Also your WASP protectorate attacked us even sooner than Xanth was ghosting DS to attack us. So by what standards do you consider someone your member? Also would you consider your 1 person AA protectorate called WASP to be a member of SRA or a separate alliance SRA called in to attack our lower tier?

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If we go under the conventional standards of someone still being a member of your alliance if they still retain full masking as a member on your forum, then the attacks from your alliance beyond Dreamweaver came way earlier. Also your WASP protectorate attacked us even sooner than Xanth was ghosting DS to attack us. So by what standards do you consider someone your member? Also would you consider your 1 person AA protectorate called WASP to be a member of SRA or a separate alliance SRA called in to attack our lower tier?

 

You're delaying to try to mince words.  You COULD have answered any of the other questions.  But here:

 

1.  What date did LN attack any nation on the SRA AA other than Dre4m?

 

2.  What date and time did Monsters, Inc. blitz SRA?

 

3.  What date and time did Vandelsand send you aid?

 

You will look less stupid if you just answer the questions and admit your thesis statement about what SRA is admitted is completely incorrect than you do by continuing to delay your answer and twist words to defend the untenable position you have staked out.

Edited by Walshington
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You're delaying to try to mince words.  You COULD have answered any of the other questions.  But here:

 

1.  What date did LN attack any nation on the SRA AA other than Dre4m?

 

2.  What date and time did Monsters, Inc. blitz SRA?

 

3.  What date and time did Vandelsand send you aid?

 

I'll bet you don't answer, because you cannot concede any wrongdoing.  These facts are untwistable, and you refuse to deal in facts that cannot be twisted.  I'll answer for you in a bit if you can't be bothered.

 

EDIT:  I will PM you to alert you to this thread so you don't miss it!

Why not check the dates and post them, since they are the big questions on your mind? These minor details are irrelevant to the bigger picture of us being under attacks from your membership, both allowed from your AA and off your AA simultaneously. You're trying to draw attention away from the facts which matter, with ones which don't.

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I was told TSO cleared it afaik. 

If that is not true, then not countering definitely might help. 
 
Though I'd really like to know who spy'd me :P
 
 
 
Edit - changed my mind.


Ceres is not TSO gov and cannot clear you to attack anyone on behalf of TSO.

I will hold retaliation until this is figured out.

I spied on you, only to gather intelligence, and have taken no further action, which I could do to great detriment probably for all parties.

I never had beef with SRA or PPO.
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Seems to me SRA is now admitting they were engaged in a war with me back when I was fighting Dreamweaver, when before they claimed that war Dreamweaver had on me didn't count as our alliances being at war.

 

When justifying aggression against me they say SRA was not at war with me (as they were attacking), when justifying aggression against you they say SRA was at war with me back then. Seems they can't keep their facts straight, since all their arguments on not being the aggressors in all this can't hold up to reality..

 

 

This is indeed the moment for TSO.

 

Has SRA in fact admitted that they were at war with LN when it was only Dre4m fighting him by attacking Vandeland for aiding Meth?

 

The obvious answer is, only if Dre4m was the only one fighting LN at the time aid was sent.  Let's investigate:

 

 

1.  What date did LN attack any nation on the SRA AA other than Dre4m?

 

6/11/2015 5:34:31 PM 
war_info.png   icon_war_end.png   note.png
*Expired*

team_Brown.gif

wreytweyewuyeyewyyry 
Ruler: Kaznawim
Limitless Nexus

team_Red.gif

Xrayben 
Ruler: xrayben
Screaming Red Asses

 

 

2.  What date and time did Monsters, Inc. blitz SRA?

6/13/2015 7:57:01 PM 
war_info.png   icon_war_end.png   note.png
*Expired*

team_Brown.gif

Brittben 
Ruler: Lord Hitchcock
Monsters Inc

team_Red.gif

Apropos 
Ruler: Xanth
Screaming Red Asses
War Expired

 

 

3.  What date and time did Vandelsand send Methrage aid?

 

6/13/2015 8:21:21 PM 
"War aids... Dont get sic" 
* Expired *

team_Purple.gif

Native Columbia
Ruler: vandelsand
The Guild of Calamitous Intent

team_Brown.gif

Libertarian Empire
Ruler: Methrage
Limitless Nexus
$9,000,000
100 Tech
4000 Soldiers

Approved

 

 

 

So the FACTS are that Valdelsand aided methrage AFTER Monsters, Inc. attacked SRA on LN's behalf and AFTER LN attacked SRA nations.

 

Which means that Methrage's assertion:

"Seems to me SRA is now admitting they were engaged in a war with me back when I was fighting Dreamweaver, when before they claimed that war Dreamweaver had on me didn't count as our alliances being at war."

 

is completely without merit.  Methrage knows it too -- when he researched the answers to these questions, he found out himself.  Did he concede he was wrong at this point?

 

Absolutely not.  Instead he says that the facts are minor details, and points to "a bigger picture:

 

Why not check the dates and post them, since they are the big questions on your mind? These minor details are irrelevant to the bigger picture of us being under attacks from your membership, both allowed from your AA and off your AA simultaneously. You're trying to draw attention away from the facts which matter, with ones which don't.

 

Welcome to what diplomacy was like with Methrage, folks.  He's NEVER wrong, even when confronted with facts. He sees what he wants, and hears what he wants -- if it does not fit his narrative, he changes his narrative or ignores the facts.   He clings to statements that have no merit, and ignores those that do.

 

Methrage's inability to talk in a mature, reasoned manner is why we are at war, and why he drug his allies in with him. 

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Welp second time I decided to post but to clear some facts I don't think arguing gets anyone any where because people in general are stupid and narrow sited so let me put everything on the table real fast.

 

1) Methrage, this whole war could have been avoided if you just fought dre4m as they stated dre4m did this on his own accord.

2) Van you did drop your ODP with CA for TSO this is true however you may not see yourself as "aiding" LN but you are doing tech deals during this war and fueling them.

3) TSO will not get involved because they are part of TCA and that the fact SRA are friends of TCA if they ever chose to get involved it would be on the side of SRA I don't think your a bad guy van just not playing with a full deck of cards.

4) CA I have nothing against any of you I get along with sigrun I just wish you chose better allies then this cowardly group of morons who thought they were in the same league as SRA.

5) Methrage, what kind of idiotic leader leads his man into getting slaughtered? this goes for MI as well and then cries about being the victim? and also after selling down attacks the weakest targets he could possibly find...talk about a cheap attack and you talk about how your fighting for freedom and this and that...its a bunch of crap its called man up and accept responsibility for your actions.

 

Now with all these facts and looking at your battle weary nations knowing its over and I do not see any big allies up your sleeve you would think a leader would care enough about his man to get them off the front lines and find a way to get peace for his man...but that's just me I care for those that would fight for me and for those that I fight for. A man can admit defeat and humbly retreat there is no shame in such actions the only shame is not understanding that you lost while everyone sits back and laughs at you for your stupidity.

 

Well I said my piece, have a good day all.

 

Oh and one more thing, if anyone has a problem with TSO choice of not defending Vand...please feel free to attack them if you feel you have that ability to do so. All this whiney crap why not do something about it? 

Edited by The Dark Emperor
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Also here is a time line for you,

 

6/7 Dreamweaver attacks, you give permission to attack me and support the continued attacks from your AA

6/9 Tyrian from WASP (SRA Protectorate) attacks our lower tier.

6/10 Xanth ghosts the DS AA to attack our lower tier as well.

6/11 One non-nuclear nation from LN finally retaliates against SRA aggression.

6/12 Two more declarations from the SRA AA on ours.

6/13 Vandelsand sends me aid, since we are both fighting III% at this point. It will still be a long time before my nation will be out of anarchy.

6/14 Another non-nuclear LN nation declares to back up our other non-nuclear nation fighting against those with nukes, when finally getting out of anarchy from the DS War. Another SRA nation declaration on us (Same nation that attacked us under the WASP AA earlier)

6/15 You recognize war between our alliances, since apparently when SRA is doing it, 1 nation attacking from the AA doesn't count as war.

 

So unless you're pushing some serious double standards of an official state of war existing suddenly when 1 nation from our AA declares on yours, even though 1 nation from your AA had been hitting me for a while; the aid from Vandelsand was irrelevant to our war with SRA.

Edited by Methrage
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Then TSO asked me to end my ODP with CA. I did this, because I honor TSO and I have loyalty to them.

 

NOW, Pirates of the Parrott Order and SRA have decided to attack me. PPO informed me: Lurunin said, "Ceres gave the okay."

 

Ceres Soveign may be the owner of TSO but he is not he Premier. The Premier is ElPresidente. I have an ODP with TSO because I am honorable and support them, as I always will.

 

I call upon TSO to activate our ODP. I realize it is "Optional," but if you do not activate th ODP with me against SRA and PPO, you are worse than MI, III%, and all the other dishonorable alliances combined.

 

Given the conditional requirements for the treaty, means there was more to this than just an ordinary testing the waters ODP between alliances, so a blessing to attack shouldn't of been given so easily.

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Just because MI is at war with SRA, that doesn't mean LN is also at war with them.

Walsh didn't recognize there to be war until the 15th is the key bit of information. From his viewpoint, a single nation attack from a AA or attacks from other related AAs do not count as initiating an alliance war.

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This is another example of Meth logic.  A cogent, compact case is delivered in which Meth is factually proven to be wrong.  His response?

IGNORE ALL THAT, LOOK AT THIS!!!

 

Okay, LOL, Let's!  Will we get the WHOLE story?  Nope. Corrections in red.

Also here is a time line for you,

 

6/7 Dreamweaver attacks, you give permission to attack me and support the continued attacks from your AA  You're right -- he should have gone OFF AA (see that there? THAT is a concession in the face of facts). I should have made sure you knew Dre4m was on his own by a public announcement or something. I'm sure if Dre4m had ben off AA you would have had NO problem. I also said he was fair game.

6/9 Tyrian from WASP (SRA Protectorate) attacks our lower tier.Are you mad about off AA attacks now?

6/10 Xanth ghosts the DS AA to attack our lower tier as well. 

6/11 One non-nuclear nation from LN finally retaliates against SRA aggression. none of the above nations.  Instead, he attacks one SRA nation who had nothing to do with it, and spies on another.  Sounds like a valid CB -- at least it was when I did it.

6/12 Two more declarations from the SRA AA on ours. only the LN nation who was attacking the uninvolved nations.  You gave me a valid CB, but I knew to keep chill about it.  Don't ALWAYS have to do what we can do, now do we?

6/13 Vandelsand sends me aid, since we are both fighting III% at this point. It will still be a long time before my nation will be out of anarchy. So I'm hearing the Vandelsand aided you AFTER you attacked SRA nations?  Gee, that's what I came up with, too.

6/14 Another non-nuclear LN nation declares to back up our other non-nuclear nation fighting against those with nukes, when finally getting out of anarchy from the DS War. Another SRA nation declaration on us (Same nation that attacked us under the WASP AA earlier)

6/15 You recognize war between our alliances, since apparently when SRA is doing it, 1 nation attacking from the AA doesn't count as war. AGAIN WITH THE HALF TRUTHS.  When one nation from LN attacked us, we didn't go to war.  As pointed out above, we recognized war with you WHEN 13 NATIONS FROM MONSTERS, INC BLITZED US!!!

 

So unless you're pushing some serious double standards of an official state of war existing suddenly when 1 nation from our AA declares on yours, even though 1 nation from your AA has been hitting me for a while; the aid from Vandelsand was irrelent to our war with SRA.

Clearly, you are pushing half truths.  I'm seriously not knowing if this is a huge troll, or you seriously cannot distinguish what you WANT to be from what IS.  You want to be the victim so bad, and portray it that way through partial presentations of your version of the truth.  Hope your allies are reading this.  There are litereally NO double standards -- well, from me anyway.

 

You are bad at propganda, Meth -- too many of your arguments are dismissed by easily game data.  The rest isn't to be believed because of the previous fact.

 
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