To My Dearest Lord Caparo

[hartfw]

Just to be clear, Im curious what Vandelsand's definition of war crimes meriting sanction was, as he was the one that was posting it as an acceptable use that he will do in the future.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

The position of SNX is this " BC maintains the stability of the Brown Sphere. SNX does not endorse any non BC member for Brown Senate and that has been our long held position.

 

Could I get a link to this "BC" please? I searched forum and wiki and didnt come up with anything myself earlier.

[Franz Ferdinand]

Let us see what we can find.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

Ah what a clever name. Thanks.

[Sephiroth]

Let go of the past. We do not support your claim on Brown. We haven't since you came asking for our help. Your love for rogues makes you potentially toxic to our sphere. I said earn your seat, not call in favors. You didn't earn it.

If you stretch the definition of rogue far enough, it can include anyone who isn't voting for you. When alliances of 20+ members are being sanctioned, they aren't rogues.

[Neo Uruk]

If you stretch the definition of rogue far enough, it can include anyone who isn't voting for you. When alliances of 20+ members are being sanctioned, they aren't rogues.

You can certainly gather a bunch of rogues under an alliance affiliation.

[Sephiroth]

You can certainly gather a bunch of rogues under an alliance affiliation.

Some would say DBDC and most of Doom Sphere are/were rogues, however when they band together into one alliance; they become an alliance. Some people like to stretch rogue to apply to anyone they dislike, but I don't see it that way. Rogue loses its meaning that way, which is an unaligned nation attacking on their own.

If nations gather under an alliance affiliation together, isn't that called forming an alliance? Edited May 29, 2015 by Methrage

[Malkavian]

Some would say DBDC and most of Doom Sphere are/were rogues, however when they band together into one alliance; they become an alliance. Some people like to stretch rogue to apply to anyone they dislike, but I don't see it that way. Rogue loses its meaning that way, which is an unaligned nation attacking on their own.

If nations gather under an alliance affiliation together, isn't that called forming an alliance?

 

I always thought that a rouge was anyone who defected from one alliance, especially with the the intent to cause harm to that alliance. It didn't matter if it was one player or more.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

And I'll just throw out that to me, a rogue is a nation that is just nuking more-or-less-at-random as part of a national suicide.

 

It makes some sense to go ahead and sanction them, you're just bringing the damage on slightly sooner but it was going to happen anyway.

 

Also I have to say I am very disappointed to see the hostility towards Methrage's candidacy. I had no idea. I thought the fifth seat was competitive and that Brown was basically friendly. :(

[Sephiroth]

And I'll just throw out that to me, a rogue is a nation that is just nuking more-or-less-at-random as part of a national suicide.
 
It makes some sense to go ahead and sanction them, you're just bringing the damage on slightly sooner but it was going to happen anyway.

Also I have to say I am very disappointed to see the hostility towards Methrage's candidacy. I had no idea. I thought the fifth seat was competitive and that Brown was basically friendly. :(

Those who aren't trying win 2 seats are more friendly towards it and I think he's just letting off some steam at the prospect of me winning one of those. I wouldn't pay much attention to it. Even going by the recent BC announcement, only 1 SNX senator is approved by them anyways.

[14dwright]

And I'll just throw out that to me, a rogue is a nation that is just nuking more-or-less-at-random as part of a national suicide.
 
It makes some sense to go ahead and sanction them, you're just bringing the damage on slightly sooner but it was going to happen anyway.
 
Also I have to say I am very disappointed to see the hostility towards Methrage's candidacy. I had no idea. I thought the fifth seat was competitive and that Brown was basically friendly. :(

Well, considering that TSC, Atlas, SNX, GATO, and III Percent (5 alliances) make up BC, it means we are to have all 5 seats. With OLD securing one seat now, that means 4 seats for five.

With Methrage coming in and falsely claiming that we (SNX) support his move to brown or his running for senator, naturally I'm going to be a little upset, to say the least. I was even more upset when I learned that he may potentially have a seat when he doesn't deserve it yet. He came in to our home and made comments in an attempt to strong arm Alexio15 who was representing BC as a whole.

Of course I won't take strong arming attempts lightly. Brown is friendly to each other. Brown is not friendly to outsiders who threaten our family.

Those who aren't trying win 2 seats are more friendly towards it and I think he's just letting off some steam at the prospect of me winning one of those. I wouldn't pay much attention to it. Even going by the recent BC announcement, only 1 SNX senator is approved by them anyways.

Please tell me who is supporting you. I'm intrigued. It's certainly not anyone from BC after everything said. SNX only supports votes for legion-x of Rocky. Those who are voting for our other member are doing so out of desire to vote for him.

[Sephiroth]

Well, considering that TSC, Atlas, SNX, GATO, and III Percent (5 alliances) make up BC, it means we are to have all 5 seats. With OLD securing one seat now, that means 4 seats for five.

With Methrage coming in and falsely claiming that we (SNX) support his move to brown or his running for senator, naturally I'm going to be a little upset, to say the least. I was even more upset when I learned that he may potentially have a seat when he doesn't deserve it yet. He came in to our home and made comments in an attempt to strong arm Alexio15 who was representing BC as a whole.

Of course I won't take strong arming attempts lightly. Brown is friendly to each other. Brown is not friendly to outsiders who threaten our family.

Please tell me who is supporting you. I'm intrigued. It's certainly not anyone from BC after everything said. SNX only supports votes for legion-x of Rocky. Those who are voting for our other member are doing so out of desire to vote for him.

Those who vote for me do so out of a desire to vote for me. If all discussions between me and your former leader are now void because you guys got a new forum and new leader now, I can accept that. I said your former leader did back when we were deciding where to go, I realize he's no longer leader and if I go by what you say doesn't matter. Although verify the facts before you make absurd claims, even when you know who to speak with in order to verify what I've said. If you speak with him first, then maybe we'll have more to talk about. I said "when the decision to move to brown was made", you already know the time period I'm referring to is back when you had your old forum and a different leader. This has already been explained to you on on a different forum. I never said SNX currently supports me on the senate, its already apparent you only support yourselves on the senate currently.

If you really don't know how to see who is supporting me, you really are so new I shouldn't be having this discussion with you. You should really take a break from posting here and let your leaders represent your alliance in public. Your nation is 60 days old and there is still a lot you don't know. I don't see why you're dragging this discussion and SNX's reputation onto the OWF when you don't know what you're talking about. There is an embassy we have for the very reason of having these types of discussions, where misunderstandings can be made clear. I'd rather not see you damage SNX's reputation further on OWF. Edited May 29, 2015 by Methrage

[14dwright]

Do not patronize me. This isn't my first time in the sandbox, lest you forget I am a reroll?

I know exactly who is voting for you. What's up front is evident, what isn't is still hidden and that's what I was referring to.

Do not drag SNX's reputation into this. You do realize that I am government in SNX right or have you not done your homework? Besides, I am merely speaking as a concerned member of BC. I do not speak for BC. However, I still am concerned for Brown as a whole when a rogue-lover is potentially taking a seat.

You say "verify the facts before you make absurd claims." I could say the exact same to you.

[Krihelion]

This is hilarious, I really hope razor comes out of PM and burns you alive

[Sephiroth]

Do not patronize me. This isn't my first time in the sandbox, lest you forget I am a reroll?

I know exactly who is voting for you. What's up front is evident, what isn't is still hidden and that's what I was referring to.

Do not drag SNX's reputation into this. You do realize that I am government in SNX right or have you not done your homework? Besides, I am merely speaking as a concerned member of BC. I do not speak for BC. However, I still am concerned for Brown as a whole when a rogue-lover is potentially taking a seat.

You say "verify the facts before you make absurd claims." I could say the exact same to you.

I just don't like seeing certain alliances be able to isolate certain nations from the rest of world with a simple request and suddenly everyone's freedom to interact with them is cut off no matter how unjust the reason might be for the request. I want at least one color where nations can have freedom, to trade and associate with whoever they want. Many nations are sick of seeing sanctions abused to drive nations who oppose some of the more ruthless alliances out of CN. Also I meant higher gov who is more aware of their position and don't want to argue in favor of bad positions, while driving a wedge between SNX and those who have done nothing but try extending the hand of friendship with SNX. When most of the world wants to take pot shots at SNX, I've been among the few who would rather say nice things about SNX and try helping your image.

This talk of me strong arming your "family" Atlas, by trying to make clear to him if he remained opposed to us being part of BC no matter what, there would be division on brown, just shows naivety. BC is a ODP bloc of a handful of nations, its not the entire brown sphere. I tried working with BC and making the stakes clear, then you accuse me of strong arming him for stating realty. I never threatened him. Of course I'm going to run as a senator separate from BC when you have leaders like that in BC who are uninterested in a united Brown Sphere, with people like you agreeing with them.

So don't accuse me of avoiding trying to gain the respect of BC and circumventing it, I gave brown unity around BC a try and you were against it. I even tried persuading those who were rude and nothing but negative. You agreed with the Alexios over those who want nations on brown to be free to associate with whatever nations they want. You agreed with those who wanted BC to be a highly inclusive club rather than representative of the brown sphere as a whole. My support comes from many alliances, from those who care about freedom and seen the instability placing sanctions upon request can cause. Nations which have seen the harm they do and are sick of switching colors all the time just to trade or tech deal.

Also don't worry, all my votes are legit. I can't believe they have you playing the role of head diplomat when you talk like that and assume everyone who isn't in BC must be doing something wrong.

[vandelsand]

Just to be clear, Im curious what Vandelsand's definition of war crimes meriting sanction was, as he was the one that was posting it as an acceptable use that he will do in the future.

Hartfw,

I am not clear, but I'm sure it will come up! War crimes... Maybe when the intricacies of planet bob become more complicated there could be some aspect that alliances would cry foul against.

[vandelsand]

Elite Virgin committed treason by going against his allegiance to our alliance during a time of war, and espionage. That is why he was sanctioned.

Caparo should not have been sanctioned, and that I apologize for.

[smurthwaite]

Elite Virgin committed treason by going against his allegiance to our alliance during a time of war, and espionage. That is why he was sanctioned.

Caparo should not have been sanctioned, and that I apologize for.

That's what I don't get.  Didn't his AA attack your AA? 

[14dwright]

Also don't worry, all my votes are legit. I can't believe they have you playing the role of head diplomat when you talk like that and assume everyone who isn't in BC must be doing something wrong.

I didn't question the legitimacy of your votes. I'm also not the head diplomat. I speak for myself as a concerned member. I'm allowed to have my own opinion as is anyone else. This is not the exact opinion of BC nor SNX.

[Jackie Moon]

This situation has just been so... 

 

[Unknown Smurf]

I think meth and Dwight/SNXs misunderstanding stems from the fact that SNX supported meth potentially holding a Senate seat before the govt overhaul and foundation of BC.

I really hope something as trivial as that isn't misconstrued by the brown sphere as a hostile action.

[Sephiroth]

I think meth and Dwight/SNXs misunderstanding stems from the fact that SNX supported meth potentially holding a Senate seat before the govt overhaul and foundation of BC.

I really hope something as trivial as that isn't misconstrued by the brown sphere as a hostile action.

He seemed to of wanted this discussion here and spoke his mind, so I said what came to mind as well when I was reading his posts. If some debate can be misconstrued as a hostile action, the brown sphere would be a much more unstable place than it is. I still wish him and his alliance well. I don't think the brown sphere is a place where something like this like could be distorted into something else. If he has any concerns he's always free to PM me and I'll be diplomatic about it.

[Caustic]

ITT TSO got wrecked by another micro. Do we have a new candidate for WAE?

[14dwright]

He seemed to of wanted this discussion here and spoke his mind, so I said what came to mind as well when I was reading his posts. If some debate can be misconstrued as a hostile action, the brown sphere would be a much more unstable place than it is. I still wish him and his alliance well. I don't think the brown sphere is a place where something like this like could be distorted into something else. If he has any concerns he's always free to PM me and I'll be diplomatic about it.

I honestly have no personal qualms or issues with Methrage. I do not represent anyone in these discussions. This is merely a debate between two folks who reside in the same sphere. This is not meant to be hostile by any means. I wish the best to Limitless Nexus as well.

[Freelancer]

I think meth and Dwight/SNXs misunderstanding stems from the fact that SNX supported meth potentially holding a Senate seat before the govt overhaul and foundation of BC.

I really hope something as trivial as that isn't misconstrued by the brown sphere as a hostile action.

 

This is a pretty accurate statement, that said who was running around making all those decisions for SNX at the time? Go head say it we all know !

The creation of BC was an undertaking like no other, there were days I wanted to just quit and and say $%&@ it, but we did it and it's here and it is the governing realm of The Brown Sphere and make no mistake we will do what ever necessary to ensure it's continuity.

Have a nice day,

( OCC ) After this week I never want to look at another chome book again, time to get my mined right. ( /OCC )
 

Edited May 29, 2015 by Freelancer