Sanctions!

[Sephiroth]

Tech deals are no act of war and I don't think most of DBDC considers them as such. Although whoever holds a seat can use it how they want, so that can reflect on the whole alliance. However sanctions on pink over tech deals is another reason I'm glad we moved off. Good luck to those sticking it out.

[Neo Uruk]

Well at least he is on the first page rather than you who seems to wait until about the 3rd page to sulk like the fat kid never picked for kickball. 
 
I would like to leave you with this quote from a famous fictional race car driver "If your not FIRST your LAST"

Good god, this is low-tier even for you.

[Margrave]

Tech deals are no act of war and I don't think most of DBDC considers them as such. Although whoever holds a seat can use it how they want, so that can reflect on the whole alliance. However sanctions on pink over tech deals is another reason I'm glad we moved off. Good luck to those sticking it out.

 

Providing materiel support to an enemy is an inherently aggressive action; the problem for alliances is that treating it as such without the wherewithal to prosecute offenders is a non starter,  as Polaris's attempt to do so has shown. 

[Sephiroth]

Providing materiel support to an enemy is an inherently aggressive action; the problem for alliances is that treating it as such without the wherewithal to prosecute offenders is a non starter,  as Polaris's attempt to do so has shown.

Its an exchange, some alliances will often have many war fronts open at any given time. Doing business like usual doesn't constitute a sudden act of aggression on all entities which could go to war with those you trade with. Treating it as an act of war is trying to treat it as something else.

If someone wants to use that as their reason to go after someone, they can do that with any reason. However that doesn't mean nations doing tech deals initiated any aggressive actions. Rather than fight free trade, nations should strive to make their trades and aid slot usage even stronger. Going after nations who don't even have you in their mindset is just creating new enemies where there weren't any.

[thespindoctor]

Don't know if I would bother for someone who can't even capitalize their own name.

 

Quite frankly your answer has put me in my place. It been seconds since I last read such a witty answer. I can see you are a thinker, no doubt about it. Don't change and don't move lest you lose this unbeatable sense of humor. From the minute I saw your avatar I thought "yes, here's a man who likes his vaseline". We think this might be your nickname from now on. Like it?

[Margrave]

 

Quite frankly your answer has put me in my place. It been seconds since I last read such a witty answer. I can see you are a thinker, no doubt about it. Don't change and don't move lest you lose this unbeatable sense of humor. From the minute I saw your avatar I thought "yes, here's a man who likes his vaseline". We think this might be your nickname from now on. Like it?

 

Why craft an answer to your witless missive, when the Bard has encapsulated the point I would advance so adroitly:

 

 Juliet:

 

O Romeo, Romeo! wherefore art thou Romeo?

Deny thy father and refuse thy name;

Or, if thou wilt not, be but sworn my love,

And I'll no longer be a Capulet.

 

Romeo:

 

[Aside] Shall I hear more, or shall I speak at this?

 

Juliet:

 

'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;

Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.

What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,

Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part

Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!

What's in a name? that which we call a rose

By any other name would smell as sweet;

So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,

Retain that dear perfection which he owes

Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,

And for that name which is no part of thee

Take all myself.

 

Romeo:

 

I take thee at thy word:

Call me but love, and I'll be new baptized;

Henceforth I never will be Romeo.

[Caliph]

Pure class.

[William T Sherman]

Sanctioning a Maroon nation on Pink to prevent them to send other aid to Blue nations seems... I am not sure what it seems. It looks it's been done more for the show than anything else.

 

Considering the 4k soldiers and the Aid reason one would think that it was a provocation and that the party being provoked decided to bite.

 

Anyone feel free to correct me with harsh words and threats if I am getting anything of this wrong, thank you. :)

*Threatens Jerdge* :p

anyway what Cuba did defies all logic here. sanctioning a maroon guy on pink for aiding a nation on blue makes little to no sense. ofcourse this is Cuba we're talking about here, using sanctions as a form of chest beating and all. attacking violators of the NAP makes much more sense actually but that's just me. 

[Unknown Smurf]

*Threatens Jerdge* :p
anyway what Cuba did defies all logic here. sanctioning a maroon guy on pink for aiding a nation on blue makes little to no sense. ofcourse this is Cuba we're talking about here, using sanctions as a form of chest beating and all. attacking violators of the NAP makes much more sense actually but that's just me. 

RIA is about 50k NS from being in range. That's the only reason they haven't been hit.

[gatorback05]

RIA is about 50k NS from being in range. That's the only reason they haven't been hit.

 

I wish you were in range.

[gatorback05]

Good god, this is low-tier even for you.

 

Your posts remind me of that baby you always hear crying in the theaters.  Annoying and irrelevant.

Edited March 17, 2015 by gatorback05

[Unknown Smurf]

 
I wish you were in range.

Sell down baby, I ain't hiding.

But then again that'd probably be useless since youll have to peacemode as you always do when there's a chance of you having a real fight.

There's no difference between you and rey except you have a large nation that's useful to some and rey doesnt PM. I wouldnt be surprized to hear half of DBDC doesnt even like you.. and not just because Ive already seen logs of them talking shit about you.

Cuba built his crew based on nation size and I built mine on loyalty let's see who lasts. Edited March 17, 2015 by Unknown Smurf

[HeroofTime55]

Per DBDC standards, tech dealing is not an act of war.  Except when they decide it is, I suppose.

Regardless, sanctioning an RIA member without talking to RIA first, well, that most certainly is an act of war.  So congrats on violating the NAP.  Absolutely nobody is surprised.

[HeroofTime55]

*Threatens Jerdge* :P

anyway what Cuba did defies all logic here. sanctioning a maroon guy on pink for aiding a nation on blue makes little to no sense. ofcourse this is Cuba we're talking about here, using sanctions as a form of chest beating and all. attacking violators of the NAP makes much more sense actually but that's just me. 

Cuba is trying to send a message, and the message he's sending is "we will not hold our end of the NAP."

Again, nobody is surprised.

[Margrave]

Per DBDC standards, tech dealing is not an act of war.  Except when they decide it is, I suppose.

Regardless, sanctioning an RIA member without talking to RIA first, well, that most certainly is an act of war.  So congrats on violating the NAP.  Absolutely nobody is surprised.

 

Your member violated it first?

[gatorback05]

Sell down baby, I ain't hiding.

But then again that'd probably be useless since youll have to peacemode as you always do when there's a chance of you having a real fight.

There's no difference between you and rey except you have a large nation that's useful to some and rey doesnt PM. I wouldnt be surprized to hear half of DBDC doesnt even like you.. and not just because Ive already seen logs of them talking !@#$ about you.

Cuba built his crew based on nation size and I built mine on loyalty let's see who lasts.

 

Aww you called me baby.  Not sure if i should be insulted or nauseated. I was only in PM once there "Baby" and that was in TTE and that was due to DBDC having their fun at the time and me having no back up.  You are about as loyal as Marcus Brutus buddy but keep telling yourself differently.

 

I like being hated.  Makes me feel needed ;) 

[Starfox101]

 

Its due to that same logic that there is always Schatt/Tywin/you on the first page posting anti DBDC stuff.

What logic would that be?

 

I'm not sure your point hits the way you wanted it to.

 

 

Well at least he is on the first page rather than you who seems to wait until about the 3rd page to sulk like the fat kid never picked for kickball. 

 

I would like to leave you with this quote from a famous fictional race car driver "If your not FIRST your LAST"

Damn, I guess I should lurk on CN more these days and make sure I'm on that first page. Otherwise I'm a fat kid who can't play kick ball.

 

Literally groundbreaking argument.

 

Welcome to 2015. There are ten posters and I am one of them.

Times are rough, indeed.

 

 

Your member violated it first?

You're above this, Margrave.

 

 

I once read that liars always think people are lying to them and I am often reminded of this saying when dealing with people like Starfox.  Who would notice a person jumping to DBDC defense before the guy who ALWAYS shows up in every thread to be a voice for the anti-DBDC crowd?  For what its worth, I love who the champions of anti-DBDC are.  You guys do amazing work.  Shocker that you all aren't running successful alliances on your own.

Yes, the vaunted champions of the Doomsphere such as Gatorback are far, far above any of us peons. I'm sorry Schattenman and myself aren't on his level.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Starfox101

[Unknown Smurf]

You are about as loyal as Marcus Brutus buddy but keep telling yourself differently.

You think I'm not loyal because I didn't submit to DBDCs plan of how the world should work? Do you feel betrayed? Am I not nice enough for you? Please. I'm loyal to my allies, and they know that. Even Bones (though he'd never admit it).

I am not nor ever have been allied to DBDC (or DS). Somehow that simple fact has eluded you for some time now.

[Margrave]

 

You're above this, Margrave.

 

I'm a fairly nefarious individual; how have you not realized this yet? Regardless of what anyone else thinks, providing materiel aid to someone at war is an act of aggression, be it intended or not. Polar's main problem is that they didn't have the political weight, or the military might, to forbid sellers from trading with DBDC.

 

Actually, Polaris's main problem is that it survived to the present day, and that the banner it carries forward is one of soulless treaty-web manipulation, intimidation tactics, and sovereignty violating peace terms; your battle standard is so weighted with dishonor no breeze will let it fly, and provides the shroud many of my friends were buried in.

 

But you know, old men, old grudges, etc.

[Sephiroth]

I'm a fairly nefarious individual; how have you not realized this yet? Regardless of what anyone else thinks, providing materiel aid to someone at war is an act of aggression, be it intended or not. Polar's main problem is that they didn't have the political weight, or the military might, to forbid sellers from trading with DBDC.
 
Actually, Polaris's main problem is that it survived to the present day, and that the banner it carries forward is one of soulless treaty-web manipulation, intimidation tactics, and sovereignty violating peace terms; your battle standard is so weighted with dishonor no breeze will let it fly, and provides the shroud many of my friends were buried in.
 
But you know, old men, old grudges, etc.

From my queries to gov beyond Cuba in DBDC, they don't care about tech deals and say they never have cared about the business deals of their enemies. Maybe they are trying to provoke a response from RIA or it was a spontaneous move, but I doubt many in DBDC see it your way. For most they see tech deals as just about business and don't pay attention to what their enemies are up to with trades. From their perspective Mogar was the exception rather than the rule, this isn't some move to set precedents on how they deal with people conducting tech deals.

Going after people conducting business affairs because you go to war with those they deal with only hurts your position when you try enforcing it. They can throw it on the sanction as the reason to throw people off from the real reason they did it or just for fun. DBDC has been using the senate on Pink however they like for a while now.

 

Saying its aggression to do business with people at war is at least as far fetched as claiming aggression against yourself whenever a tech dealing partner of yours gets hit. You can announce it as your planned policy and even try to enforce, but it doesn't change who would be going on the offense to effort it. Some might even cheer you on for going all in to defend someone you only have a tech dealing relationship with, but you still aren't the target of aggression just because those you trade with might be.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Methrage

[thespindoctor]

From my queries to gov beyond Cuba in DBDC, they don't care about tech deals and say they never have cared about the business deals of their enemies. 

 

This is incorrect. The DBDC have approached two of my tech sellers asking them not to sell tech to me (in fact they won't even allow them to send me tech that I have already paid for). Other WTF members have had similar experiences. renegade4box seems to be in charge of this operation.

[HeroofTime55]

 

Your member violated it first?

Firstly, by DBDC standards, Mogar did not.  Now, of course, I don't follow DBDC standards, so I agree Mogar violated it, but the point of this is to draw attention to the double-standards and hypocrisy of DBDC.

Secondly, in purely legal terms, "they did it first!" is not an excuse, unless the intent is to discard the treaty in full.  The treaty contains no "they did it first" exception.  The remedy for violations is to contact the alliance (in this case RIA) and to diplomatically hash it out.

[Mogar]

Considering that Ogaden had supposedly solved this already, I can take Kashmir's sanction of myself on yellow as a declaration of war upon all of RIA, yes?

[Gh0s7]

Considering that Ogaden had supposedly solved this already, I can take Kashmir's sanction of myself on yellow as a declaration of war upon all of RIA, yes?

I suggest you talk to your government before you continue down that line of posting.

[Caliph]

Cuba is trying to send a message, and the message he's sending is "we will not hold our end of the NAP."

Again, nobody is surprised.

 

Mogar violated it first.  The fact that DBDC is still willing to uphold the NAP should tell you something.

 

 

What logic would that be?

 

I'm not sure your point hits the way you wanted it to.

 

The logic that if you are on a side you will view that side's actions through a certain lens.  Most of us have chosen a side willingly so we are willing to defend our beliefs, our views, and our actions, and those of our side.  You have chosen anti dbdc, and are an active participant here, same with others that I mentioned, so it makes sense that in the first page you will have someone complain about DBDC, just as there will be someone defending them on the first page, because they are a popular target with many supporters of both views.

 

 

Firstly, by DBDC standards, Mogar did not.  Now, of course, I don't follow DBDC standards, so I agree Mogar violated it, but the point of this is to draw attention to the double-standards and hypocrisy of DBDC.

Secondly, in purely legal terms, "they did it first!" is not an excuse, unless the intent is to discard the treaty in full.  The treaty contains no "they did it first" exception.  The remedy for violations is to contact the alliance (in this case RIA) and to diplomatically hash it out.

 

Firstly, by DBDC standards, Mogar did as evident by the sanction on pink.  Secondly, this does not affect Mogar since his tech sellers are not on pink, he is not on pink, his trade partners are not on pink, and as far as I can tell he has no plans to move to pink,  His actions of "totally just a tech deal" are provocative, and his continued outspoken nature against DBDC does put him in the spotlight.  His nation bio stated he was a RIA gov member, so it does not take much to think that this may have been okayed by RIA gov. 

 

Ogaden has sense cleared this up with those involved, a  testament to his dedication to his alliance.  DBDC and RIA still have the NAP, so Mogar's plan of breaking the NAP and restarting a RIA/DBDC conflict has utterly failed due to cooler heads prevailing.