TIEIXIAIS Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Continue to ignore that DS and DT Probes, among multiple other AAs were doing the same exact thing two months ago, and your allies argued that such actions were not acts of war. Mogar the Hypocrite calling someone else a hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Continue to ignore that DS and DT Probes, among multiple other AAs were doing the same exact thing two months ago, and your allies argued that such actions were not acts of war. Please point out the NAP between DS and DT Probes had with such alliances that we broke. Citation needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted March 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 A tech deal is not just a tech deal when it involves sending troops to an alliance that is at war with others in direct violation of an NAP that your alliance signed. This is a completely separate situation, and even your best attempts at spin are failing horribly because what we're doing isn't hypocritical in the slightest. You broke an NAP, and are crying wolf about DBDC yet again. I'm respecting the NAP with DBDC as they so graciously did with RIA multiple times previously. I'm not at war with any DBDC nation, nor did I aid a nation at war with DBDC, unless you're going to lay claim to the various rogues under numerous AAs, which would be a spectacular step towards honesty. Mogar the Hypocrite calling someone else a hypocrite. How exactly am I a hypocrite, I merely am following the same rules that the Doomsphere follows, aid with soldiers is perfectly acceptable so long as it's a tech deal. Please point out the NAP between DS and DT Probes had with such alliances that we broke. Citation needed. Please refer to DBDC's and its allies official position in this thread, regarding tech deals during war time. If it was applicable to your own aids, it should be applied equally to all sides, unless your sphere would lie in order to preserve their brother and sister nations whom mysteriously only send out aid to DBDC and friends without any incoming cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I'm respecting the NAP with DBDC as they so graciously did with RIA multiple times previously. I'm not at war with any DBDC nation, nor did I aid a nation at war with DBDC, unless you're going to lay claim to the various rogues under numerous AAs, which would be a spectacular step towards honesty. How exactly am I a hypocrite, I merely am following the same rules that the Doomsphere follows, aid with soldiers is perfectly acceptable so long as it's a tech deal. Please refer to DBDC's and its allies official position in this thread, regarding tech deals during war time. If it was applicable to your own aids, it should be applied equally to all sides, unless your sphere would lie in order to preserve their brother and sister nations whom mysteriously only send out aid to DBDC and friends without any incoming cash. The situations are simply not comparable because there was an NAP in place that you broke, there were no treaties that we broke. 2 completely different situations that you just don't seem to comprehend. You are bad at trying to spin this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Chocolate Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Now I know what happens when some diplomatic work needs to be done with RIA and my response is, "If someone else has any time for it - feel free." Perhaps I should be busy with other diplomatic work more often :D Today I learned that tech deals are considered an act of war if you are aiding nations DBDC does not like, but anyone aiding DBDC is just doing tech deals and it's not an act of war at all! What you should of learned is that if you decide to bait DBDC, you are very likely to be successful in some form or fashion. Considering the sanction has no REAL consequence that matters, complaining about it on the OWF, in my opinion is entirely out of proportion. It is also a very predictable response from you. I think you lost this public relations round, Mogar. Next time send a nasty PM or complain about it in our embassy at RIA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted March 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 The situations are simply not comparable because there was an NAP in place that you broke, there were no treaties that we broke. 2 completely different situations that you just don't seem to comprehend. You are bad at trying to spin this. The situations are entirely comparable, since the aid is not an aggressive action, based upon your alliance's position on this exact subject only a few months ago. You are bad at realizing you literally argued exactly what I argued two months ago. Now I know what happens when some diplomatic work needs to be done with RIA and my response is, "If someone else has any time for it - feel free." Perhaps I should be busy with other diplomatic work more often :D What you should of learned is that if you decide to bait DBDC, you are very likely to be successful in some form or fashion. Considering the sanction has no REAL consequence that matters, complaining about it on the OWF, in my opinion is entirely out of proportion. It is also a very predictable response from you. I think you lost this public relations round, Mogar. Next time send a nasty PM or complain about it in our embassy at RIA. It's not as though you have really accomplished any diplomatic work in our embassy anyway. All I learned is that your sphere is incredibly hypocritical, and has no issues displaying such publicly. So, while the sanction might not matter, it does prove that what occurred to WTF was not merely a tech raid, but in fact an organized offensive designed to weaken another alliance that has not done anything to you, and is turning out to be far more expensive of a target than what you appear to have expected, based off ODN's attempt at "diplomacy". My dear, you forget there is far more people watching than just your sphere, and quite frankly I'm not interested in the message your actions send to the rest of the world reaching them anyway, being lost causes and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerdge Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) Well the GPA standard on aid to alliances at war is probably very well known, and most will probably understand that I thus only have an academic interest in this situation, but nonetheless I am curious: are the soldiers the only sticky point? Had Mogar sent only cash, would have it been OK to the ones that are saying that they consider that aid shipment an act of war? What about the DBDC stance, WC? As always, answering is not an obligation, but it's a kind gesture I'd be grateful for. Edit: grammar (I think). Edited March 13, 2015 by jerdge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 The situations are entirely comparable, since the aid is not an aggressive action, based upon your alliance's position on this exact subject only a few months ago. You are bad at realizing you literally argued exactly what I argued two months ago. It's not as though you have really accomplished any diplomatic work in our embassy anyway. All I learned is that your sphere is incredibly hypocritical, and has no issues displaying such publicly. So, while the sanction might not matter, it does prove that what occurred to WTF was not merely a tech raid, but in fact an organized offensive designed to weaken another alliance that has not done anything to you, and is turning out to be far more expensive of a target than what you appear to have expected, based off ODN's attempt at "diplomacy". My dear, you forget there is far more people watching than just your sphere, and quite frankly I'm not interested in the message your actions send to the rest of the world reaching them anyway, being lost causes and all. You could not be further from the truth if you tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted March 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 You could not be further from the truth if you tried. It's like you didn't even read the Polaris thread, it's a good thing the rest of the world did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Chocolate Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 it does prove that what occurred to WTF was not merely a tech raid, but in fact an organized offensive designed to weaken another alliance that has not done anything to you, I'm glad you brought this up because you have been saying this often. Please show me where anyone in DBDC has claimed that the attack on World Task Force was a "tech raid." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted March 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I'm glad you brought this up because you have been saying this often. Please show me where anyone in DBDC has claimed that the attack on World Task Force was a "tech raid." See doll, honesty really is the best policy! MK and Pacifica did the big bad role much better though, considering Pacifica actually called in their assistance off the bat, rather than after their opponent started doing damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Smurf Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) I think DBDCs just lookign for an excuse to raid RIA post-WTF war. If this wasn't true, DBDC would've probably approached RIA before canceling a NAP over 4k soldiers sent to a sub25k NS nation. I also think Mogars intentionally obtuse posting is hurting RIA. I'll just leave this here and :popcorn: though Edited March 13, 2015 by Unknown Smurf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted March 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 About as seriously as DBDC took the NAP with RIA previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gh0s7 Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I think DBDCs just lookign for an excuse to raid RIA post-WTF war. If this wasn't true, DBDC would've probably approached RIA before canceling a NAP over 4k soldiers sent to a sub25k NS nation. I also think Mogars intentionally obtuse posting is hurting RIA. I'll just leave this here and :popcorn: though I don't recall DBDC saying the NAP was canceled, merely that mogar violated it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 If it hadn't been you...I might have believed it Mogar. We all knew you did it to poke them with a little tiny stick to get a reaction. That's fine and all but they just did the same thing to you....looks like they got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBRaiders Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 The best part about the sanction is we knew you sent it solely for attention, you got that attention, and you came and started this topic for additional attention. The benefit to us is we invested very little effort in showing that RIA has violated their surrender terms. The Random Insanity Alliance hereby surrenders to the combined forces of Aurora Borealis, DOOMBIRD DOOMCAVE and The Grand Lodge of Freemasons. RIA has agreed not to re-enter the Doom War or to provide aid to any of the combatants still participating in the conflict. AB, DBDC and GLoF have agreed to a six-month non-aggression pact with RIA. This agreement bans any acts of war between one group of signatories and another. It will go into effect immediately and expire on August 1, 2015. Tech deals are not an act of war, but sending soldiers disguised as tech deals is an act of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBRaiders Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 About as seriously as DBDC took the NAP with RIA previously. We never had a NAP with you before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted March 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I don't recall DBDC saying the NAP was canceled, merely that mogar violated it. I don't recall DBDC respecting the previous NAP, personally. If it hadn't been you...I might have believed it Mogar. We all knew you did it to poke them with a little tiny stick to get a reaction. That's fine and all but they just did the same thing to you....looks like they got it. Mr Director is a CNRP member and I can produce logs that prove him asking for people to sell tech to and me saying, "After the war we can totally tech deal!". War's over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingzog Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Continue to ignore that DS and DT Probes, among multiple other AAs were doing the same exact thing two months ago, and your allies argued that such actions were not acts of war. You know, I was one of those on the 'Doomsphere' side of the war who said that aid of any kind constituted an act of war. My particular take on it, though, was that the other (your) side lacked the testicular fortitude to go after everyone who acted against their interests, so that 'imperial decrees' on the matter amounted to nothing more than a bit of puffery and cowardly posturing. (History lesson: I was right.) So I'm being completely consistent here when I say that you committed an act of war. Frankly, you're getting off easy here. And I doubt very much that there will be any penalties forthcoming from your own alliance, despite the fact that you've publicly embarrassed them. Again. So really....what are you complaining about? You got to send aid, and you're getting the attention you so desperately crave. Win-win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted March 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 The best part about the sanction is we knew you sent it solely for attention, you got that attention, and you came and started this topic for additional attention. The benefit to us is we invested very little effort in showing that RIA has violated their surrender terms. Tech deals are not an act of war, but sending soldiers disguised as tech deals is an act of war. The best part is that WTF was not considered a combatant in the war, since your declarations against them did not happen until after we had signed peace, nor would they be considered part of the overarching conflict due to their non connection to the treaty web at large, nice attempt though! I did not see you making a distinction of the two when it was your brothers and sister's nations sending the soldiers, I'm incredibly shocked that an alliance as noble and honorable as DBDC would change their opinion on a subject such as the Free Market of Tech Deals once the circumstances were reversed. We never had a NAP with you before. We have been on your no raid list several times supposedly, and kept mysteriously disappearing from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Mogar, literally everything you said is wrong. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted March 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Mogar, literally everything you said is wrong. Try again. RIA had the "no raid" policy violated twice, after the second time we engaged in war just as DBDC wished with us, and once that 6 month NAP ends, DBDC will raid our upper tier again, regardless of my own actions or membership, it's the reality of the world we're in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auctor Posted March 14, 2015 Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 It's nice to know that agreements RIA makes with other alliances don't count in cases where RIA government members feel they just aren't getting enough attention lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted March 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 Who said I'm a government member? I'm assuming we're going to keep on ignoring that everyone in the Doomsphere had the opposite opinion when they were the ones sending the soldiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auctor Posted March 14, 2015 Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 You mean, when they were at war with you? Gosh, I wonder why they did that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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