This Week in the Network

[Duderonomy]

I think this is great.

 

The whole of CN can see how DBDC deflect wars, attention and diplomacy to other lap dog aa's. They seem to be unable to handle anything their selves. DBDC are basically happy to throw their allies under the bus.

 

The whole world can also see how DBDC allies act so immorally to please DBDC.

 

I think these are enormous warning signs. Everyone involved in this for DBDC has ruined their reputation. One of my missions is just to make things visible for everyone to see. DBDC and its slave aa's will be under very close scrutiny from now on. From its tech income to its slimy war tactics DBDC will be watched.

Ah, the moralist champion who raided until the very end. At least Tywin could back up his rantings.

 

May I ask, why are you on Team None? Is it possible that you are sanctioned as a rogue on every color? If so, why would WTF be surprised when you're attacked by outside AAs? Rogues are open season, after all. If WTF has long known that you were considered a rogue (you've been sanctioned on maroon since 2/3), then they can't really consider you a member in good standing. If it weren't for their war, you would have been booted to a micro months ago.

 

Non Grata has had rogue members. They either leave the AA or take their lumps and then we negotiate for their return. We don't defend them. They made their choice. You have made your choice. And WTF has made their choice. They don't recognize the wishes of the wider community. They have decided to spread the conflict to other AAs. What happens now will be determined in gov negotiation at best and in nuclear silos at worst. 

[Starfox101]

 

DBDC has fought in many wars and has been the subject of a huge amount of activity.  They are the topics of many discussions, their actions are brought to the arbiters of our realm routinely, and their actions are spoken of at great length in public and private channels.  They have done more in their short time than WTF has in its entire existence.

I understand that, however I fail to see how any of that is relevant to what I stated? I was not referring to DBDC, but ODN, if that somehow was not clear...

[Stewie]

As much as I dislike participating in wars of words, three things need to be cleared up factually.

 

1- Noobcake. Noobcake has NEVER EVER EVER come to us about peace terms, instead hopping from AA to AA in an attempt to get peace. The first one was SPATR, who did NOT allow him into their ranks because he was at war. Everyone else recognized the shady BS going on and refused to be bothered with him.

 

2- Reps. Serious official reps were never discussed. A) DBDC, after taking losses they certainly couldn't have expected, would be foolish to them turn around and PAY WTF for an end to things when fewer players on both sides are still taking losses. That's just poor business. B) Anyone who took a request of Cuba selling all of his tech, or Lander Clan baking everyone in WTF cupcakes as REAL reps? Is either trying to do some serious spin doctoring, or not terribly bright. I have a screen cap to share if anyone cares enough to to want to see me post it and doesn't want to wander over to the WTF forums.

 

3- CT. Of this I am about to share I am 99% certain and will be bothered to do all the digging at a later date if need be if REALLY necessary. CT dropped the DBDC AA, switched to WTF and then declared war on Cuba. His war results screen show this to be true. CT found himself disappointed in friends from SWATR and declared on Bones while dropping the WTF AA. His war results screen also shows this to be true. If he was a rogue against anyone? It should have been against them. I posted in another topic a screen cap from Bones himself that SWATRs issue was with CT and not WTF. It has since been determined that the Bones/CT issue has calmed down and SWATR has satisfied their vengeance on CT. So, hes not a Rogue to DBDC, and his issue with SPATR is settled for now.

 

Now this, when I WTF member comes to CTs aid as a member from Non Grata attacks: [quote]To: Tapley    From: Stewie    Date: 3/9/2015 11:02:54 AM

Subject: RE: War Declared!

Message: So you declare war on me because I'm hitting a Rogue, former member of Non Grata who left acrimoniously during a war.


Well, fair enough then. God speed.

 

The question has to be asked, if there was any issue with NG prior? Why now? Why not the last time, which well over a year ago when CT was in WTF for quite a while before he left for DBDC? And why, if he left NG in poor standing? Was he allowed to join their ally in the first place?

 

Why?

Because NG was in NO shape at the time to do anything.  We'd literally lost our entire upper tier during equilibrium and disorder. Also at the time CT joined DBDC we were not allied IIRC.

 

CT has always run when the going gets tough.  Whether it's by rebuying infra when the rest of your alliance is at war so you can war dodge (OH HI DAVE) or leaving lower tiers to go through meatgrinders without any aidbombs because and I quote "Me having a ton of tech helps the AA better than supporting the lower tier"

 

 

Vengeance does not have an expiry date.  I've been working my way into his range for well over a year.  I'm getting my pound of flesh from this.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Stewie

[Sigrun Vapneir]

 

It is indeed a culture clash.  I get looking at the long term, and if you are playing the game where you hope by dragging it out as long as possible that you might sway others into white knighting for your cause, go for it.  

 

Wild swing and no surprise a miss. 

 

I am not in WTF, have not in any way implied otherwise, that was a lazy and completely incorrect assumption on your part. I'm much closer to your side than theirs, in fact, which is why I am actually trying to help you here, even if you dont seem to get that.

 

Second, I doubt very much they expect anyone else to help them. This is more of the culture clash - you are imagining that because it's the only reason to do what they are doing *in your world.* But again that is not how they actually think. If you make a play down the road based on this idea it will fail miserably, because it's simply not accurate. They have worked and built and prepared for this day for *years* and I have seen no evidence that sharing targets with anyone outside of their group has ever crossed their mind.

 

"As for fleeing for cover, you clearly haven't seen many wars here."

 

There's another wild swing and a miss. I have roughly half your NS and twice your casualties buddy, and I have seen my share of wars, big wars, little wars, and everything in between.

 

Which has nothing to do with nations from that AA attempting to surrender. I have that from ODN, are you saying they are lying?

Edited March 10, 2015 by Sigrun Vapneir

[Caliph]

 

Why?

Because NG was in NO shape at the time to do anything.  We'd literally lost our entire upper tier during equilibrium and disorder. Also at the time CT joined DBDC we were not allied IIRC.

 

CT has always run when the going gets tough.  Whether it's by rebuying infra when the rest of your alliance is at war so you can war dodge (OH HI DAVE) or leaving lower tiers to go through meatgrinders without any aidbombs because and I quote "Me having a ton of tech helps the AA better than supporting the lower tier"

 

 

Vengeance does not have an expiry date.  I've been working my way into his range for well over a year.  I'm getting my pound of flesh from this.

 

What goes around comes around.  CT deserves everything he is getting.

[christian trojans]

May I ask, why are you on Team None? Is it possible that you are sanctioned as a rogue on every color? If so, why would WTF be surprised when you're attacked by outside AAs? Rogues are open season, after all. If WTF has long known that you were considered a rogue (you've been sanctioned on maroon since 2/3), then they can't really consider you a member in good standing. If it weren't for their war, you would have been booted to a micro months ago.

 

Non Grata has had rogue members. They either leave the AA or take their lumps and then we negotiate for their return. We don't defend them. They made their choice. You have made your choice. And WTF has made their choice. They don't recognize the wishes of the wider community. They have decided to spread the conflict to other AAs. What happens now will be determined in gov negotiation at best and in nuclear silos at worst. 

 

I was considered a rogue because i was fighting SPATR. SPATR gov and i are now fine with each other. I spoke with sgt gus and Fasser at length. CT and SPATR are now fine.  We have peace. Thanks for reminding me that i should now have sanctions removed.

[Garion]

I appreciate your addition to your signature as well, it certainly proves my opinions of R&R are entirely correct of where you really stand for alliance friendships.

Is it "Mogar = RIA" now? I get your whole protagonism thing, but this is pushing it to the limit.

I do quite enjoy the freedom to single you out as a joke instead of making baseless accusations against your alliance: I'll leave that to you instead. Edited March 10, 2015 by Garion

[TIEIXIAIS]

Why is CT not shown as a WTF member on the WTF forums?

[HeroofTime55]

 

Fighting multi month wars is boring, thats why.  We need wars that last a few weeks, then we'd have more wars more often instead of 1 huge war a year that lasts months.

On the contrary, this is hilarious.  Not for you guys, of course.  But for the rest of us, lol.

[elespectador]

 

Mostly this thread has devolved into petty personal arguments I have and want no part in, but in this particular case I think I might actually be able to contribute something worthwhile. You see this is part of the culture clash for lack of a better term which was just touched on in the parent forum. There are (at least) two entirely different ways that people have of judging winning and losing of wars, and this is often a cause for consternation when people from the different orientations interact violently. You (and many others) look at the stats and act like it's a ball game. We outdamaged you for a couple of weeks, we won, mark the points on the wiki and go home. Anything more or different is odd and unexpected to you.

 

That's something that I have come to understand from many years around y'all, but it was totally alien to me to begin with and still seems quite boring frankly.

 

The way that I naturally look at it, which seems to be the way most of WTF see it as well, sees war as being about politics. The stats are almost completely meaningless to this point of view - just a tool, not the end goal at all. And there is certainly no rule anywhere about them lasting 2 weeks, or 4 weeks, or any particular set amount of time. The aggressor gets to decide when it starts but they do not get to decide when it ends. It ends when *both sides* agree to end it, and not one moment before.

 

You're looking at the stats and saying 'they lost, why wont they admit it?'

 

They're looking at the things they consider important instead. Their morale is high, their warchests are fine. (Some of) your guys appear to be fleeing for cover already. (Some of) your allies are showing up trying to beg or threaten or really do anything at all to get you peace (and doing a side-splittingly bad job of it.) Clearly, in their world, you are the ones losing, and you should admit it. 

 

Thanks to both groups, btw. My investments in  :popcorn:  are really paying off!

 

I believe that this post is an accurate description of WTF's view.

[Stewie]

The only important Stat I have is this one

 

Number of Soldiers Lost: 5,098,057 Attacking + 9,180,345 Defending = 14,278,402 Casualties Casualty Rank:

 

Ranked #28 of 8,904 Nations (Top 0.31%)

 

 

If WTF want to throw more nations at me, sounds great.  If they want to grind my nation down until it's dust.  Then I look forward to rebuilding it in a year again.

[Starfox101]

The only important Stat I have is this one

 

Number of Soldiers Lost: 5,098,057 Attacking + 9,180,345 Defending = 14,278,402 Casualties Casualty Rank:

 

Ranked #28 of 8,904 Nations (Top 0.31%)

 

 

If WTF want to throw more nations at me, sounds great.  If they want to grind my nation down until it's dust.  Then I look forward to rebuilding it in a year again.

Nobody cares

[Sigrun Vapneir]

And that's one reason we love Stewie.

 

Would have been cleaner if you had waited, you know he'll jump ship and you would have gotten another shot at him then. 

 

Anyhow, give him hell.

[Stewie]

Nobody cares

Asa seems to care...

 

To: Stewie    From: Asa Phillips    Date: 3/10/2015 3:15:21 PM

Subject: Before things get worse than needed.

 

Message: While I dont play the whole RP BS thing. And I certainly dont play politics. I believe in letting someone know when they are being mentioned and believe in making the facts straight before taking actions.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/126288-this-week-in-the-network/?p=3371870

I am one of the ones slated to be next in your war slot, but I believe you dont have all the facts and are doing what you feel is the right thing to do based on what you do know.

Let me know what you think.

AP

 

CT seems to care...

 

 

To: Stewie    From: Christian Trojans    Date: 3/6/2015 1:30:58 PM

Subject: dfbdb

 

Message: wtf r u doing u smelly little $%&*@. You wait i am gonna tear a hole through your aa now. Prick

[thespindoctor]

 

Nobody is 100% a dick. 

 

Oh, don't be modest now...

[ChairmanHal]

Oh, don't be modest now...

Maybe he needs modesty lessons from Stewie.

[kingzog]

While I am certainly no fan of neutrals/independent alliances, to even compare them to non-neutral alliances that have fought in 10+ wars is either blatantly ignorant, or incredibly stupid. Take your pick.

Of course they can be compared. They're alliances, not different kinds of fruit. Amazing how petty and small you're becoming. (The MI6 effect, I guess.)

They serve no purpose. That is neither ignorant nor stupid. It's simply the way things are.

And who mentioned wars? I certainly didn't.

[Stewie]

Maybe he needs modesty lessons from Stewie.

 

Modesty is boring.

[Asa Phillips]

 

We went to bad for CT, and he ended up betraying us.  This is the type of person you accept into your alliance.  He has a long history of doing that, betraying alliances, I'm suprised he's still in yours to be honest.  He has burnt every bridge behind him. 

So, he was good enough for you... but not good enough for anyone else? We know the answer, and why you feel that way. Its ok.

 

 

Use your pixels in whatever way you deem fit, you are your own AA and can make those decisions for yourself.  But all decisions have consequences.  DBDC's raids have consequences, as does dragging out a war that is all but won by the other side.  There comes a point when a defiant act against an agressor becomes a pathetic excuse to continue a conflict that you have been soundly defeated in.  While you could continue the fight for months, is that really what you want to do?  Lay low for 7 years, never fight a war, then fight a long multi month war?  Multi month wars are boring.  If you really want to make up for missing every war by a marathon war now, go for it, but that decision could have consequences too.

 

It was made absolutely clear to DBDC how this would go if the two sides came to blows. It was inevitable and it only seemed to fair. This was shared well ahead of time, probably close to a year in advance if I had to make an off the cuff guess. It was even shared about our dormant members who would come back from inactivity when called. None of WTFs actions hadn't already been foretold. In politics and pixels there are winners and losers. We see ourselves as neither, and dont care much what others label us as. After all, for 8.5 years we've been called hippies, infra huggers, cowards, whatever cn-cool buzz word the masses want to use their pack mentality to apply when the time comes.

For Asa: the question is whether CT left while there was an active war between DBDC & WTF or immediately prior to it when war was all but certain and planned, and then attacked DBDC. He also has leaked several war planning sessions, which Non Grata has also been a victim of in the past. This is based on the dates I have available, which are limited. That is our issue with CT. Treason and betrayal. Not whatever old stuff that happened before I was around. The older actions are merely a sign that this behavior is not new, and CT will not receive peace simply because WTF sends an 18,000 infra 8,000 tech nation to get EMPed into the ground.

Treason and betrayal... yet neither of those is "rogue". Again, CT was a WTF member twice... with a stop at DBDC inbetween. Only now any of this comes out. Last I knew, CT was sanctioned on most spheres at DBDC request, being labeled as a rogue, yet he wasnt.

 

Stewie hasn't complained once. The rest of us are a little protective of him since he's the only guy that keeps us out of trouble.

 

At least the dates line up as I thought they did. CT made his choice and we will consider him a rogue until WTF pulls his keister out of the fire.

Incorrect, already outlined it for you that he isn't. It was pretty clear I thought, but theres been a ton of crap here in this topic, so I imagine its easy to miss.

 

 

As apt a description of WTF as there has ever been.

ZING! Very clever. Do you feel better now?

 

All this time, you guys really dont get it do you? Everything that makes you important, means next to nothing to any of us. So CN insults dont matter. Youd have better luck making fun of our moms.

 

 

Vengeance does not have an expiry date.  I've been working my way into his range for well over a year.  I'm getting my pound of flesh from this.

 

THIS RIGHT HERE? I respect and can admire.

 

I'm big on honesty, and many of you who have come to know me over the many years know there is no facade or character I use when playing or interacting with others. My remark is as genuine as you can find.

If WTF want to throw more nations at me, sounds great.  If they want to grind my nation down until it's dust.  Then I look forward to rebuilding it in a year again.

Barring anything over the top game-changing, you won't have to consider this. To be told ahead of time that sticking your hand on the stove when its on, is one thing... to feel what you're doing is the right thing only to really have been misinformed? Is another. We are not an unreasonable group by any means, and have never been out to ruin anyone's game.

 

 

And if things did go badly for some strange reason? You could always run to ODN, and they'll save you.
 

 

 

Speaking of ODN, my questions to them on our forum went unanswered. Can anyone tell me if ODN intervened on DBDCs behalf when they were at war with RIA? Or how long that war lasted before there was peace?

Edited March 11, 2015 by Asa Phillips

[TBRaiders]

CT is a war deserter and DBDC rogue.  He left our alliance in the middle of war and he attacked us while we are at war.  We do not care that he joined another alliance.  He is a rogue and our issue with him will 100% be decided internally and not as any outcome from this war.

 

I've read a lot of posts and would have to quote 40 of them to type all my replies, but I don't have that kind of energy so here is a random collection of thoughts.  WTF is having fun at war and we are having fun.  We are always ready to walk away from a war and have shown it a dozen times, but we will also stay until the end.  25 million casualties, yo.  We do things like move nations around and get assistance from DBDC members off AA or from allies.  It is part of our tactics.  If we were truly cowards, we would be pixel huggers who abandon alliances when they go to war (CT life history) or we'd belong to alliances who don't war often.  We've been called cowards and bullies in the same threads over and over again.  I'd think some of you children would realize that sticks and stones may break our bones, but our tech will always hurt you.

 

War chests.  We shared the intel on the top 40 or so WTF with our allies so I am not sure who WTF is trying to convince that they all have monster war chests, but it is false.  Some nations have those big war chests amounts posted a few pages back, but a surprisingly large amount of WTF nations have very average to below average war chests, especially for an alliance who has been collecting pixels for 7-8 years.  I hate to ruin good jokes, but we've trolled you guys on l0c0's warchest as well.  Nobody in WTF had a bigger war chest than him when this war started and its been fun watching you guys suicide your nations into him to try and make him poor.  I've seen current spy reports vs initial spy reports and there are WTF nations who have spent over 3 billion after only a couple rounds of war.  I don't even understand how that is possible.  I am sure there are nations who have spent even more than that rebuying infra to climb into range.  I probably shouldn't even post this stuff because when your enemy is making mistake after mistake, you should let them continue doing what they are doing.

 

WTF had another Zombie nation appear.  Congrats on that.  I am going to make him a small nation very soon, but I do applaud your ability to coordinate with nations who haven't logged into your forums for months.  

 

CT, I shared the entire DBDC skype log with an ally last night from a link Caladin posted to a skype downloader.  I am looking forward to a thread called CT's Greatest Hits as they go through it for me (lack of energy again) and we share with the whole world what an amazing nation ruler you really are.  You've chopped a few logs to try and garner support so I want all these people to know how trustworthy you really are.  I should have done this a while ago, but yeah...energy.

 

Final random stuff:  We agreed to a NAP with GPA not long ago and one with OBR/OG even before that.  We uphold our treaties and our word.  All this random speculation, 2013 log dumping, and sideline sniping from peons like Unknown Smurf to try and gather support to harm DBDC and our friends is duly noted.

[Asa Phillips]

 

Asa seems to care...

Of course I do, about your situation. I sent that message in game pointing you here after reading what others from your group posted here about CT being incorrectly labeled as a Nuke rogue... and before seeing your reply that I quoted above about you looking for vengeance, and not declaring for the reason of the him being a nuke rogue.

[Yawoo]

It warms my cold heart to see TWIN still kicking. As always, an enjoyable read. 

[Overlord Shinnra]

 

 

Speaking of ODN, my questions to them on our forum went unanswered. 

 

We were told to go away by several of your members. We have obliged you. 

[JoshuaR]

With regards to ODN's voting percentage. And here I thought our 70+% turnout in the last foregone conclusion Presidential Election in Umbrella had a low turnout.

 

[Asa Phillips]

 

We were told to go away by several of your members. We have obliged you. 

I've always respected you and your semi-bold participation on the OWF, this reply is certainly disappointing. Especially when ODN members kept posting for days after initially threatening war that provoked the replies you have since apparently obliged. And for at least two full days after you yourself said you were taking your leave.