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Moments that Unite Us


Margrave
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Good evening, Cyber friends.

 

 

We've just wrapped up yet another conflict on tired old Bob, another war for reasons, reasons which escape me for the moment, but a fairly standard war. Much like other wars in the years past, there were sides, blocs, political organizations. I waved a flag, you waved a flag, and we launched our soldiers against one another.

 

What does it all mean? That's for you to say; only you can decide the value. And that goes for most wars; in a rational world, we recognize that no side in the conflict is truly evil or despicable; they are just mortal men, struggling to serve the alliances and nations that they represent, to do their best to leave a mark on a world where so many legends have already trod.

 

That isn't my topic today. Today I want to recall a war without parades, whose veterans do not wear medals; a war that united three blocs against one despicable enemy. Because these are recollections, I invite others to put dates, and in some places names, to these events, but as I recall it, this is the story.

 

I was a younger man in the days that lead to the last true Great War, Great War 3. Many will debate me on the term Great War, and what conflicts it properly applies to, but this is my narrative. At the time I worked in the Foreign Affairs Department of \m/, as the lead diplomat to USN and GUARD as a whole. In this capacity, I also served as the ad hoc Initiative diplomat to GUARD; though political relations between the two blocs were never exactly friendly, I and Xiao Xeng, the leader of USN, had a solid working relationship, and gradually, a friendship.

 

Much of what passed between us has fallen beyond my recall; I recall a man of a temperate nature, and friendly bearing. He was a solid leader and a hard worker, and in the years to come, he would provide me with help in many avenues, both in the Initative and then, some time later, out of it. I recall today this specific occasion, and share it with you here, because I have been reminded today that though we may wave different flags and wage war for different reasons, there is an underlying agreement of what we as a world shall not tolerate; this is the story of one such occasion that united the world.

 

It came to pass that, in a private, highly classified discussion, Xiao passed along critical information to me, and through me, to \m/ and the Initative; a plot he had discovered, along with leaders of GUARD. An evil organization, racist in nature, from the underbelly of the Cyberworld, had plotted nothing less than the overthrow of our civilization. Inflitrating like thieves in the night, they had passed into alliances of the Initiative, Aegis, and GUARD, all for the same purpose; to gradually suborn the characters and ideals of all alliances, and to bring them to heel at the foot of their intolerable philosophy.

 

 Much of what happened is lost in log files of long forgotten leaders and government offices that no longer exist, however, the intelligence that we did receive named names, gave dates, details, and via the usual smokey room politics and backdoor channels, three blocs did the unthinkable: they united. In a outpouring of righteous fury, hundreds of national leaders were exposed as the vilest of traitors, and sentenced to immediate execution; their radicalized populaces brought to heel under the banner of human dignity, liberated from their governments who had fostered such a foul plot. In a few weeks time, the war was over; a short vicious war, without mercy, without quarter, a war to the broken hilt of the knife as three blocs, and the many alliances they represented, stood shoulder to shoulder and said "Not In Our Cyberverse."

 

The years have passed, and GUARD, as well as most of its member alliances, are but dust, as are The Initiative and Aegis. The Veterans of the great Purge war are thin on the ground now; no speeches are held to recall us to mind, and no medals were awarded. But of all the wars I've fought, before or since, under my own banner as an Alliance leader, under my own flag as a nation ruler, or under the flags of other great alliances such as \m/, NSO, Kashmir, it is that war I am most proud of.  So to those fellows who can still recall those hoary and ancient days, I salute you as brothers, and wish you all the happiness and prosperity that the gods and Admin may render to you.

 

 

Now, I open the floor to others, with this question: What moments do you recall that brought people from different political spectrums, AA's, and blocs together? What moments of unity have you observed, here on old Bob?

 

 

 

OOC: Sadly I can't say much except some people from somewhere else decidely more racist and horrible decided to join a bunch of CN alliances to turn them into more of the same; Xiao got wind of it, passed it to me, I passed it to others, and it become the greatest Nazi Stomp (we'd had a few by then) ever. A good time, and a mostly forgotten war.

Edited by Margrave
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I'm told karma war didnt really qualify because it had sides. So I dont think any such thing has ever really happened.

 

The closest to unanimity I can recall would probably be the destruction of /b/, yet it is still mourned by some, and certainly not enthusiastically embraced by everyone. The closes to feeling *I* was part of a unanimity was indeed karma - and obviously that was far from unanimous as well (lots of NPO posters here today, ahem.). The closest to feeling like I was on the other side of a unanimity was the war on peace - oh look, GPA still here too.

 

As I said, the nature of our politics has been progressively to divide.

 

Also dont accuse me of not reading just because I reject  your thesis.

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I think moments which unite cause those who have a long term interest the wellbeing of the game to reach a similar conclusion something is wrong if left unchecked. Or should be different. In an open ended environment its up to the players to do something about any imbalance in power.

Pre-Karma not many would stand up to NPO and were allying NPO or allies instead to be safe. Everyone could see this was leading to stagnation, as unoppossed, NPO was just singling out old enemies or others not part of their power sphere.

This lead to the Karma War, where eventually enough people wanted something done, NPO was crushed.

What is the current state of the world? Is it good and are those taking the lead making it better or worse? If things are so boring people are quitting with no hope of winning against those in power, then those who want to make things fun need to be willing to fight for something else.

Edited by Methrage
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Woodstock "united" a lot of people at the time, but now there are probably more people that criticize it than people that approve of it (at least, judging from those that talk openly on the subject). It probably doesn't qualify anymore.

A moment that united us was when the community stood against EZI. Initially it was just a few brave souls, but it quickly got traction and after some time - well before Karma - EZI had become unacceptable.

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I think moments which unite cause those who have a long term interest the wellbeing of the game to reach a similar conclusion something is wrong if left unchecked. Or should be different. In an open ended environment its up to the players to do something about any imbalance in power.

Pre-Karma not many would stand up to NPO and were allying NPO or allies instead to be safe. Everyone could see this was leading to stagnation, as unoppossed, NPO was just singling out old enemies or others not part of their power sphere.

This lead to the Karma War, where eventually enough people wanted something done, NPO was crushed.

What is the current state of the world? Is it good and are those taking the lead making it better or worse? If things are so boring people are quitting with no hope of winning against those in power, then those who want to make things fun need to be willing to fight for something else.

 

The treaty web and all it entails came as a direct result of Karma and it's aftermath it was the "brave new world" Karma created, and as far as I'm concerned it's just become a new form of stagnation hence why I would completely agree with Van Hoo III here:

 

Karma War. It seems like it's been all downhill from there.

 

As a result CN is now less than a third the size in terms of number of players. Just in terms of the Order, Pacifica had over 1000 members pre-Karma, and we've steadily declined in membership to where now we're down to just over 300 members, and that sort of decline has occured across all of Bob. I think largely due to the stagnation the "brave new world" of a treaty web Karma created.

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As a result CN is now less than a third the size in terms of number of players. Just in terms of the Order, Pacifica had over 1000 members pre-Karma, and we've steadily declined in membership to where now we're down to just over 300 members, and that sort of decline has occured across all of Bob. I think largely due to the stagnation the "brave new world" of a treaty web Karma created.


Stagnation leads to nations sticking around, massive changes lead to nations leaving. Time and again we see that global wars lead to a reduction in the number of nations here.

If anything, stagnation caused Karma to happen rather than stagnation being the result of Karma.
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Ah yes you see, before Karma things were so much better! :rolleyes: The treaty web becoming what it is was inevitable because everyone is after their own self-interests. Once the Continuum was dismantled, alliances began jockeying for their own positions of power and spheres of interests instead of being forced to align with one overwhelming force that used its power to keep those members obeisant and their friends in line, either through straight intimidation or by running individuals and alliances out of the world entirely. And inevitably, conflicts of interest arose. Relationships changed. The world became far more dynamic after Karma than it ever was before it. So even in spite of the web being so absurdly convoluted now, we're objectively better off than we were before Karma. The only alliance that really has suffered as a result of Karma was the NPO, which was the entire point of the conflict to begin with.

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Good evening, Cyber friends.

 

 

We've just wrapped up yet another conflict on tired old Bob, another war for reasons, reasons which escape me for the moment, but a fairly standard war. Much like other wars in the years past, there were sides, blocs, political organizations. I waved a flag, you waved a flag, and we launched our soldiers against one another.

 

What does it all mean? That's for you to say; only you can decide the value. And that goes for most wars; in a rational world, we recognize that no side in the conflict is truly evil or despicable; they are just mortal men, struggling to serve the alliances and nations that they represent, to do their best to leave a mark on a world where so many legends have already trod.

 

That isn't my topic today. Today I want to recall a war without parades, whose veterans do not wear medals; a war that united three blocs against one despicable enemy. Because these are recollections, I invite others to put dates, and in some places names, to these events, but as I recall it, this is the story.

 

I was a younger man in the days that lead to the last true Great War, Great War 3. Many will debate me on the term Great War, and what conflicts it properly applies to, but this is my narrative. At the time I worked in the Foreign Affairs Department of \m/, as the lead diplomat to USN and GUARD as a whole. In this capacity, I also served as the ad hoc Initiative diplomat to GUARD; though political relations between the two blocs were never exactly friendly, I and Xiao Xeng, the leader of USN, had a solid working relationship, and gradually, a friendship.

 

Much of what passed between us has fallen beyond my recall; I recall a man of a temperate nature, and friendly bearing. He was a solid leader and a hard worker, and in the years to come, he would provide me with help in many avenues, both in the Initative and then, some time later, out of it. I recall today this specific occasion, and share it with you here, because I have been reminded today that though we may wave different flags and wage war for different reasons, there is an underlying agreement of what we as a world shall not tolerate; this is the story of one such occasion that united the world.

 

It came to pass that, in a private, highly classified discussion, Xiao passed along critical information to me, and through me, to \m/ and the Initative; a plot he had discovered, along with leaders of GUARD. An evil organization, racist in nature, from the underbelly of the Cyberworld, had plotted nothing less than the overthrow of our civilization. Inflitrating like thieves in the night, they had passed into alliances of the Initiative, Aegis, and GUARD, all for the same purpose; to gradually suborn the characters and ideals of all alliances, and to bring them to heel at the foot of their intolerable philosophy.

 

 Much of what happened is lost in log files of long forgotten leaders and government offices that no longer exist, however, the intelligence that we did receive named names, gave dates, details, and via the usual smokey room politics and backdoor channels, three blocs did the unthinkable: they united. In a outpouring of righteous fury, hundreds of national leaders were exposed as the vilest of traitors, and sentenced to immediate execution; their radicalized populaces brought to heel under the banner of human dignity, liberated from their governments who had fostered such a foul plot. In a few weeks time, the war was over; a short vicious war, without mercy, without quarter, a war to the broken hilt of the knife as three blocs, and the many alliances they represented, stood shoulder to shoulder and said "Not In Our Cyberverse."

 

The years have passed, and GUARD, as well as most of its member alliances, are but dust, as are The Initiative and Aegis. The Veterans of the great Purge war are thin on the ground now; no speeches are held to recall us to mind, and no medals were awarded. But of all the wars I've fought, before or since, under my own banner as an Alliance leader, under my own flag as a nation ruler, or under the flags of other great alliances such as \m/, NSO, Kashmir, it is that war I am most proud of.  So to those fellows who can still recall those hoary and ancient days, I salute you as brothers, and wish you all the happiness and prosperity that the gods and Admin may render to you.

 

 

Now, I open the floor to others, with this question: What moments do you recall that brought people from different political spectrums, AA's, and blocs together? What moments of unity have you observed, here on old Bob?

 

 

 

OOC: Sadly I can't say much except some people from somewhere else decidely more racist and horrible decided to join a bunch of CN alliances to turn them into more of the same; Xiao got wind of it, passed it to me, I passed it to others, and it become the greatest Nazi Stomp (we'd had a few by then) ever. A good time, and a mostly forgotten war.

 

The gormfront days. You don't know the half of it. One day I'll post about it...

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The treaty web and all it entails came as a direct result of Karma and it's aftermath it was the "brave new world" Karma created,

 

You couldnt be more wrong. The treaty web and stagnation was strong BEFORE Karma, Q? WUT? Hello?!?

 

Karma to a small degree and for a little time actually smashed some of that apart and caused a little bit of movement.

 

Stagnation leads to nations sticking around, massive changes lead to nations leaving. Time and again we see that global wars lead to a reduction in the number of nations here.

If anything, stagnation caused Karma to happen rather than stagnation being the result of Karma.

 

The first has been argued back and forth ad nauseum for years. No one has good empirical data, and it's possible nations would be reducing either way.

 

But the second is certainly true.

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As per the title... Moments that unite us.... anyone who was in any form of gov position in C&G the night that noCB kicked off, will tell you, that was a moment unmatched in this games history for the sheer spirit, loyalty and comradery that was born that evening. One of the worst rollings any group had ever endured, was still a night that will be forever regaled for the bonds that it forged. 

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You couldnt be more wrong. The treaty web and stagnation was strong BEFORE Karma, Q? WUT? Hello?!?

 

Karma to a small degree and for a little time actually smashed some of that apart and caused a little bit of movement.

 

That was my main point there hasn't been anything to really break the stagnation in CN since Karma. Because with Karma there was a dynamic in the game that fueled a crusade to attempt to break the status quo, but in the end it didn't really achieve that long term.

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As per the title... Moments that unite us.... anyone who was in any form of gov position in C&G the night that noCB kicked off, will tell you, that was a moment unmatched in this games history for the sheer spirit, loyalty and comradery that was born that evening. One of the worst rollings any group had ever endured, was still a night that will be forever regaled for the bonds that it forged. 

 

We had the same experience in Karma and the DH/NPO War.

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I have been here since June 2008.  I was around during Karma but the only thing Karma means to me on a personal level is a big war where I was annoyed because our Protector couldn't tech deal with us and so my alliance wasn't making much.  In short - it was a bump in growth and nothing more.

 

I want to emphasize again - I've been here almost seven years and nearly ALL of the moments other people are talking about happened either before I was here or close enough.

 

It's about time that someone speak up for us seven year olds (and the vast majority of nation leaders still here who are even younger) and say enough is enough.  If you truely miss those days, then figure out what it was about them that mattered and use that information to make today matter too.  If you don't - maybe it's time to just move forward entirely.

Edited by White Chocolate
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I have been here since June 2008.  I was around during Karma but the only thing Karma means to me on a personal level is a big war where I was annoyed because our Protector couldn't tech deal with us and so my alliance wasn't making much.  In short - it was a bump in growth and nothing more.
 
I want to emphasize again - I've been here almost seven years and nearly ALL of the moments other people are talking about happened either before I was here or close enough.
 
It's about time that someone speak up for us seven year olds (and the vast majority of nation leaders still here who are even younger) and say enough is enough.  If you truely miss those days, then figure out what it was about them that mattered and use that information to make today matter too.  If you don't - maybe it's time to just move forward entirely.


I'm going to risk pissing people off to reply to this because this is too important a subject to leave undiscussed for anyone who values our world beyond the capacity of crude materialist interaction. That said I will try to be unbiased and not point fingers because the problem is more systemic than anything else.

I have identified two key characteristics that has made our world much different today than the world of 2008 which you were born into. That would be tier mechanics and cultural shifts.

The tier dynamic is very obvious, I started in early 2007 and within a year I was able to construct a top 2% nation that was only 3999 infra and a high tech to infra ratio. This is unthinkable today. Can any new nation expect to construct a top 2% nation now? Of course not, and this reduces the incentive for new nations to stick around. If the world was like it is today back then, I doubt I would have stuck around, and I personally deal with tons of new nations today who simply get discouraged, no matter how interesting you try to present things as to new nation rulers.

These dynamics have also resulted in a change in political dynamics. There was a certain sense of equality back in the day because nation were really not very far apart in strength ranges. There was no god tier, and the upper tier that did exist was not so significantly seperated from the "lower tier." First of all, this gave an advantage to mass recruitment alliances that were well organized like the Orders, but it also elevated quality of discourse because importance was derived more from one's political contributions with or among mass recruitment alliances rather than personal nation strength.

Again I will not point fingers, but we can see some clear examples today of people who would have been ridiculed back in the day for their political incompetence or lack of rhetorical skills now feared largely for the strength of their nations. It has essentially moved power away from rhetoric and philosophy (as well as organizational competence) and more towards personal strength that most nation rulers will never achieve. The end result is a degeneration in politics and the lowering of leadership standards, which has had an adverse effect on the community collectively.

Another thing that is changed is the change in culture. This does tie back into the vast tier separation and class mechanics of today but back in the day politics was dominated by Order philosophy from that other world. There was a specific reason the NPO dominated world was called a Hegemony rather than an Empire and this had philosophical and ideological roots. Back then it was more inportant to influence peoples minds rather than their infrastructure and while people like Vladimir are remembered for wordy essays they had many other subtler techniques that helped the Order remain politically dominant for so long. It meant an essentially unicultural world society in which chaotic influences tended to be identified and targeted.

But as the world grew older nation-level management started becoming as or even more important than alliance management and it became less of a world for the masses and one for elitists. Politics degenerated from being based on ideological grounds and the maintenance of hegemony and towards personal friendships between governments of different alliances, and eventually individual top tier nation rulers. It definitely stripped alot of power away from your average nation ruler who was politically or rhetorically gifted and gave to a smaller group of people who were clever in managing their nation growth. Essentially, away from social power and more towards individual power.

Obviously, this has benefited some but not all. I don't think politics is nearly as interesting as it was back in the day, and I know I will never reach the top like I did back in the day... especially in this age of new wonders that cater to the top tier. Until the dynamic becomes more egalitarian again and collective power once more triumphs over individualism, for alot of people this world simply won't be satisfying aside from a few old school holdouts like the Orders.
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