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scolar visari

why isnt 9mil/100 tech deal the standard

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So, you're saying, that when 1.2 M is more than enough to buy 50 tech, you actually need 9 M to be able to buy 100 and have profit? Don't know where you learned your math, but I would file a complaint at your school if I were you.
 
Oh, and please don't start about the prices I would have to pay for tech, because that's the whole point of doing a tech deal, isn't it?


When I started years ago it was 3mil/100tech. 1 slot for 2 slots. I don't see why suddenly it should change when they can get even more cash now and send out more tech. 3mil/50tech was a sweetheart deal you never got.

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I really see this as an argument made from a very limited perspective from someone with not very much experience in the game. When anyone starts to play CN it requires a lot of time and patience going through a lot of boredom because there's only so much you can do within the mechanics of the game to grow your nation and whatnot. It's why there's so much put into what alliances do outside of the actual game mechanics because it's extremely boring otherwise.

 

Really the main thing that slows nations' growth within CN isn't the price of tech deals, but the limiting time factor of only being able to buy one wonder every 30 days. That means to get the basic, non-prerequisite wonders plus a couple of simple prerequisite wonders (ie the SDI and National War Memorial) it takes a nation in a warring alliance over two years of playing CN just to get the basic wonders.

 

To really grow and develop more tech, land, and infra means younger nations grow into NS ranges where they are in range of nations with pretty much all the wonders just sitting and waiting to wreck younger nations in war because they have a lot more money, and wonders than younger nations do which gives them a decisive advantage on the battlefield. There are certain aspects about your nation Scolar Visari which you've developed that have unnecessarily inflated your nation's NS which at the same time enables larger nations to destroy your nation even more in war.

 

I'm currently the largest my nation has ever been in terms of infra, and will soon surpass the strongest I've ever been without even being militarized at around 75k NS. It has taken me almost six and a half years of actively developing my nation, growing, and working within my alliance to get to this point, and it'll probably be another year or so before I get to the point where I can afford to get some of the higher pre-requisite wonders. That's over seven years of actively playing CN and being attentive to nation development the majority of the time. Granted in most wars my alliance ends up being in a major front of most conflicts which results in us having to fight for long periods on a regular basis which slows development, but the point is is even without fighting on a regular basis it still takes several years for nations to develop fully, in terms of wonders, within CN. And that's not because they're getting less money in tech deals.

 

Really if you want to be able to develop your nation faster you should be asking admin to change the wonder-buying time constraints within CN, but, in my experience, players who are here solely to develop their nations within the mechanics of the game don't last very long. I started out selling tech at a 3/150 rate and I still made a profit selling three of my aid slots for $3M. The going rate of 6/200 is better, as is 9/100 or 9/200. Just by increasing the limits on aid slot usage admin has made tech dealing more profitable, and accelerated nation development. The real issue, as I already said, is the time it takes to develop all the wonders.

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When I started years ago it was 3mil/100tech. 1 slot for 2 slots. I don't see why suddenly it should change when they can get even more cash now and send out more tech. 3mil/50tech was a sweetheart deal you never got.

Exactly, that was my point as well :)

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I am sure i posted on here about this before and how due to aid slots it would be worth while doing 9m for 100 tech but i spent some time thinking about this and i now do 6m for 100 tech but in a productive way, it will most likely not only get me tech buyers but long term tech buyers.
 

You send me 9m

I will send you 100 tech

You send me 9m

I will send you 100 tech

I will send you 100 tech

still works out at 6m for 100 tech but in the space of one year using one aid slot it lets me do 7.3 deals a year but with 6m for 100 tech deals i only get 6.08 deals a year

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3mil/50tech was a sweetheart deal you never got.


You never found you right buyers then, I was buying at 3mil/50tech on the condition of tech first soon after NoCB and that was some years ago.

Was it the best deal for the buyer? No, but people have different game plans. As long as the buyer and seller have agreeable terms. Then what does it matter if its different to the "norm".

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This isn't about you, but all tech sellers. So do you believe that all tech sellers, and new nations will be able to do what you did? If so when all tech sellers reach a sufficient level to maintain their own income, where/when do you buy tech? Because if all sellers are doing this at 9/100 they will all get to a level of where selling tech doesn't make sense to them anymore, and they'll look to buy. Thus leaving only maybe 10-20 new nations a day, 5-8 that actually stick around, and sell tech. It's all about making the game self-sustaining, not just one portion of the game. 

 

Or you can address the numbers that caustic brought up. 

An excellent post.

That's exactly what we do at the New Polar Order.... instead of using our members as bad payed tech farms, we pay them a good amount of money with the INTENTION that in the future they will become tech buyers. In short, we help them to grow.

Your argument is as silly as a boss telling his employees: "Why do you want a good salary??? If I payed you a good salary then you may end up saving money and open your own company!!! I want you to work for me till you die, thus I am going to pay you a bad salary as to make sure that you'll never be able to be independent from me".

Anyway... the ones who want to be eternal tech farms are free to accept $5 for 800 tech or whatever they want.
We won't stop them.

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As dear gophers stats showed, you want money? Pacifica. You want tech? Pacifica.


Whatever we are doing works, and works well.

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The real issue, as I already said, is the time it takes to develop all the wonders.

I jumpstarted this a bit as a tech seller by paying 600tech for donations.  I think I had at least 3 of them.  The current $30 donation resets wonder timer, so 2 wonders at once.

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I jumpstarted this a bit as a tech seller by paying 600tech for donations.  I think I had at least 3 of them.  The current $30 donation resets wonder timer, so 2 wonders at once.

 

I know that you can speed up the process by using donations, at the same time donations increase nations' NS into realms where they can be easily beatdown by superior older nations in wars. so there are pros and cons to that approach as well, so I just made that statement for an average nation who doesn't utilize donations in their development, but I didn't specifically state that in my original post.

 

Even so it'll still take nations somewhere from 15-18 months if they're really efficient in their nation development and utilize donations effectively (I'm factoring in the fact that most times wonder cycles get extended because unless nations have massive war chests they can't really afford to maintain a consistent wonder cycle through wars.)

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So, you're saying, that when 1.2 M is more than enough to buy 50 tech, you actually need 9 M to be able to buy 100 and have profit? Don't know where you learned your math, but I would file a complaint at your school if I were you.

 

Oh, and please don't start about the prices I would have to pay for tech, because that's the whole point of doing a tech deal, isn't it?

Reading comprehension is very important. Before insulting my math skills, you may want to read. I specifically stated who really wins in a tech deal when you consider profit margins? If I sell 300 tech for 9 million, I'll net around 4.5 million in profit. If you buy 300 tech for 9 million (DBDC doesn't pay for tech so it's a pointless discussion when you have "puppet nations" send it for free), you're getting 300 tech that would cost you how much to purchase on your own? You do realize you are getting the better deal out of it, correct? Buyers need sellers more than sellers need buyers, hence the rampant abuse of tech selling nations.

 

I'd rather discuss tech buying with an alliance that actually purchases tech, however.

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Reading comprehension is very important. Before insulting my math skills, you may want to read. I specifically stated who really wins in a tech deal when you consider profit margins? If I sell 300 tech for 9 million, I'll net around 4.5 million in profit. If you buy 300 tech for 9 million (DBDC doesn't pay for tech so it's a pointless discussion when you have "puppet nations" send it for free), you're getting 300 tech that would cost you how much to purchase on your own? You do realize you are getting the better deal out of it, correct? Buyers need sellers more than sellers need buyers, hence the rampant abuse of tech selling nations.

 

I'd rather discuss tech buying with an alliance that actually purchases tech, however.

You're assuming that the value of tech to a buyer is equal to the cost of producing it natively in their own nation. I don't think that that assumption has any basis in reality. In fact, reality seems to contradict it. If tech truly were worth as much as the money it would cost me to buy it in my own nation, shouldn't I rationally speaking be buying lots of tech like that? Yet we don't seem to observe any nation buying tech at home beyond a very low level of tech.

Edited by saxasm

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Of course not. I'm merely saying it's a bit ridiculous to speak of profit margins, or decry a tech seller greedy for asking for 9 million for 100 tech when they are providing you a product at a massively discounted rate.

 

There's no arguing who benefits more, and as such it's a bit pointless to discuss the economics of it. It's clear who benefits more.

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How much it is discounted from the price the buyer would have paid natively is entirely irrelevant to analysing the market. What matters is how much the tech is worth to the buyer, and how much the money is worth for the seller and for the buyer. Those are the variables that will determine supply and demand on the market, and obviously also who benefits the most.

 

While it is certainly a plausible argument that the current market structure means that buyers gain a larger utility from tech dealing, your line of argument won't show that, and I doubt the disparity is as big as you would make it out to be. You aren't looking at it with the right variables in mind.

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Reading comprehension is very important. Before insulting my math skills, you may want to read. I specifically stated who really wins in a tech deal when you consider profit margins? If I sell 300 tech for 9 million, I'll net around 4.5 million in profit. If you buy 300 tech for 9 million (DBDC doesn't pay for tech so it's a pointless discussion when you have "puppet nations" send it for free), you're getting 300 tech that would cost you how much to purchase on your own? You do realize you are getting the better deal out of it, correct? Buyers need sellers more than sellers need buyers, hence the rampant abuse of tech selling nations.

I'd rather discuss tech buying with an alliance that actually purchases tech, however.

 

Well, I didn't make you reply to me, did I?

 

That sort of contradiction doesn't just make me doubt your math skills, it makes me doubt your intelligence as a whole.

Edited by ramon666

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How much it is discounted from the price the buyer would have paid natively is entirely irrelevant to analysing the market. What matters is how much the tech is worth to the buyer, and how much the money is worth for the seller and for the buyer. Those are the variables that will determine supply and demand on the market, and obviously also who benefits the most.

 

While it is certainly a plausible argument that the current market structure means that buyers gain a larger utility from tech dealing, your line of argument won't show that, and I doubt the disparity is as big as you would make it out to be. You aren't looking at it with the right variables in mind.

With the amount of legit (I refuse to include the obvious cheat nations as legit sellers) tech sellers left, the market should not be controlled by those who pay for it. The price of goods should be set by those who sell the product. Even selling at 100 tech for 9 million, you're more than likely still going to find full slots as a tech seller with a reliable track record.

 

There's a reason cheating is so rampant. Finding reliable tech is difficult unless you are in an alliance like NPO/NpO/RnR. Though, wars always help as I am back to selling! (At 9 mil for 200/300 ;))

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When I started years ago it was 3mil/100tech. 1 slot for 2 slots. I don't see why suddenly it should change when they can get even more cash now and send out more tech. 3mil/50tech was a sweetheart deal you never got.

 

pppppf some of us remember 3M/150.

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I don't care what the world does, but if anyone infringes upon my 9/300 or 6/200, or in any way attempts to deplete my seller options, it most certainly would mean war.

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Haha aid trains yeah. Use two slots for $100k., send the rest on to the next nation on the list. Lots of fun when you were on the end of the list and someone higher up it got funky.

 

The first time I got $3m and did NOT have to send most of it onwards it blew my mind. So much money!

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