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I'm pretty sure Polar fought back in addition to Pax Corvus and RIA.

 

Fair enough -- due to my limited attention, I should have just put "a few".  No insult intended.

 

EDIT: Not the first few times, if I recall correctly -- Polar's hand was forced a bit this most recent time.

Edited by Walshington
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No one will take the risk of standing up to DBDC until "top tier" nations across the board are so beaten down that there's not that much to lose anymore. When the largest non-Doomsphere nation is at like 100k, maybe then we'll start seeing some action. But I wouldn't count on anyone currently over 150k to stick their necks out proactively going after them. A lot of it is cowardice, another part of it is lack of guiding principles, and the rest is just weak-minded people being easily swayed by charisma.

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No one will take the risk of standing up to DBDC until "top tier" nations across the board are so beaten down that there's not that much to lose anymore. When the largest non-Doomsphere nation is at like 100k, maybe then we'll start seeing some action. But I wouldn't count on anyone currently over 150k to stick their necks out proactively going after them. A lot of it is cowardice, another part of it is lack of guiding principles, and the rest is just weak-minded people being easily swayed by charisma.

 

Your charismatic charms are swaying me to attack these evil political heretics.  Keep up the good work Emperor Moon ;)

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No one will take the risk of standing up to DBDC until "top tier" nations across the board are so beaten down that there's not that much to lose anymore. When the largest non-Doomsphere nation is at like 100k, maybe then we'll start seeing some action. But I wouldn't count on anyone currently over 150k to stick their necks out proactively going after them. A lot of it is cowardice, another part of it is lack of guiding principles, and the rest is just weak-minded people being easily swayed by charisma.

 

Which is why DBDC is a good thing for Planet Bob.  Stagnancy, especially in the upper tiers, will be gone one way or the other.  Interesting times are not always good for everyone, but they are interesting.

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Interesting times are not always good for everyone, but they are interesting.

 

That's a matter of opinion, personally I don't see anything interesting ahead. Basically you are trading one stagnant political state of affairs against another without much happening to shake the landscape.

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That's a matter of opinion, personally I don't see anything interesting ahead. Basically you are trading one stagnant political state of affairs against another without much happening to shake the landscape.

 

Well I don't think they are interesting yet.  But DBDC is providing every opportunity for that, just as NPO did in the time leading up to Karma.  People seized the moment back then.  It's not that DBDC is unbeatable -- hell, Cuba himself has laid out how it could happen in previous OWF posts.  It's just that it will be difficult and risky.  Very few wars in the past few years have been difficult and risky for the victor, and I would argue that things are much more interesting when you have some skin in the game.  DBDC has put skin in the game a multitude of times, but can't find anyone to match it; at least, that's how it looks from the cheap seats.  I think a huge, risky war fought with  purpose and uncertainty would be far more interesting than the calculated, risk-free wars of recent vintage.

 

Look, I'm not pro- or anti-DBDC -- I'm just saying they are giving Bob the opportunity to fight for something meaningful instead of "Dave" or "Someone said Roll Polar a few months back."  Or we could continue to sit around and kvetch about game mechanics and how the world should be instead of how it is.

Edited by Walshington
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Which is why DBDC is a good thing for Planet Bob.  Stagnancy, especially in the upper tiers, will be gone one way or the other.  Interesting times are not always good for everyone, but they are interesting.


Just because there's a boss-man in the upper tier now doesn't mean the stagnation will go away. Like Cuba said only his friends will be allowed to be in the upper tier, so it just means everyone will try to be his friend. Once everyone who is not his friend gets chased out, the stagnation returns. The whole thing has a "trickle-down effect" though so I suspect there will be some polarization of the lower tier.
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I'm pretty sure Polar fought back in addition to Pax Corvus and RIA.

 

Polar rolled over at least 2 times before fighting back. I made a long winded thread about it in the last war about how TOP-Polar had the numbers needed to take down DBDC. It was met with "Rush just wants to see us lose more stats because while we probably can grind them down Ramlins style, it will weaken us too much statistically to do so." Get Dajobo a mirror. Make sure the TOP flag is visible in the background. Gaze into it. What you see are the reasons why you are where you are right now.

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Polar rolled over at least 2 times before fighting back. I made a long winded thread about it in the last war about how TOP-Polar had the numbers needed to take down DBDC. It was met with "Rush just wants to see us lose more stats because while we probably can grind them down Ramlins style, it will weaken us too much statistically to do so." Get Dajobo a mirror. Make sure the TOP flag is visible in the background. Gaze into it. What you see are the reasons why you are where you are right now.


At no point could Polar have destroyed DBDC of its own leadership. I was in coalition high command during Disorder (outside of Polar) and though we might have had great hosts on our side on paper, in practice there was no way we could have ever got all the disparate factions that made up our coalition to get together and grind down DBDC. Heck HB's largest nation hated my OWF politics and played a big part in my removal as Hand.

I know you know it just doesn't work that way, theres no way Polars Emperor or anyone else could get the entire upper tier mobilized to sacrifice themselves, especially when DBDC didn't really pose any strategic significance in the war. Edited by Tywin Lannister
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At no point could Polar have destroyed DBDC of its own leadership. I was in coalition high command during Disorder (outside of Polar) and though we might have had great hosts on our side on paper, in practice there was no way we could have ever got all the disparate factions that made up our coalition to get together and grind down DBDC. Heck HB's largest nation hated my OWF politics and played a big part in my removal as Hand.

I know you know it just doesn't work that way, theres no way Polars Emperor or anyone else could get the entire upper tier mobilized to sacrifice themselves, especially when DBDC didn't really pose any strategic significance in the war.

 

One MIGHT call that failed leadership. If one were inclined to do so.

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I think a huge, risky war fought with  purpose and uncertainty would be far more interesting than the calculated, risk-free wars of recent vintage.

 

I am not arguing against you because of any pro-/anti-DBDC stance, but because your very premise is unlikely to happen. Everyday the opportunity you speak of is getting smaller and smaller as the risk to fight DBDC rises. In the future it will even be more attractive for most alliances to fight "Dave" and "Roll Polaris" like war than before. Unless DBDC antagonizes most of the top heavy aliiances, which are left, at once, I can't see the formation of any opposition that might have a chance to take down the Doombirds.

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I am not arguing against you because of any pro-/anti-DBDC stance, but because your very premise is unlikely to happen. Everyday the opportunity you speak of is getting smaller and smaller as the risk to fight DBDC rises. In the future it will even be more attractive for most alliances to fight "Dave" and "Roll Polaris" like war than before. Unless DBDC antagonizes most of the top heavy aliiances, which are left, at once, I can't see the formation of any opposition that might have a chance to take down the Doombirds.

 

Which is the great irony here.  Since the beginning of their rise to prominence, the world has known two things:

1, What it would take to defeat DBDC

2. That each passing day makes the task more arduous.

 

And yet the strategy has been to wait and see.

 

Even now, when the time to strike could be opportune (if WTF is the sleeping giant some believe), the political will to make the attempt is absent. I think that is what Smurf (and Rush)was alluding to about the leadership.  You actually have the means to do it, but not the will.  Meanwhile the current strategy is untenable and counter to success.

 

Note that DBDC wins either way: I think they desire the challenge of fighting a coalition determined to topple them, but are probably content to rule the upper tiers and grow in strength each day.

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We're standing right here man.  

 

This whole "problem" you think we've created is just a natural step for us, and we evolve with the times.  The mechanics are such that there will always be at least 250 nations in range, and if it so happens that all 250 of them are our friends, then we can be proud of that, but that's not the reality.  It's not even about imposing some new world order upon any specific group of nations or class, it's that we know who our friends are, and we're capable of shifting the dynamic both physically and diplomatically.  We are prepared to use all tools at our disposal to make that happen.

 

I know, but I figured you knew this and I was addressing my comments to the previous poster. To be clear, the context that we both agreed was 'kind of sad' was the difficult-to-impossible time you have finding a decent fight at this stage, and while I can see how it's ' kind of sad'  it's clearly not all bad.

 

And I know y'all dont really have an ideology or a vision of order to impose on the world. If you did, your effect on the world order might be more predictable. Being in the position you are you *will* have (and already have had) effects, intended or not.

Edited by Sigrun Vapneir
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4LF3yOUs.jpg||||||||||| MCTu4qcs.jpg

I would have followed you, my brother... my captain... my king  ||| I will be your king.                                                                   .

 

You know what I hate? The romanticization of the past. Players like Archon or Moldavi or whoever weren't on another level intellectually than those around us now, they just saw opportunities and took them. They were the difference between Boromir saying he would have done something and Thorin actually doing it (I mean these specific scenes pictured above, I know the analogy falls apart when carried over to the entire series, that's irrelevant though. Pay attention now). All you need to do is look around the world and seize the opportunities around you. 

 

Surely I am safe, I have XX.  Surely I am safe, I have TOP. Surely I am safe, I have NPO. Surely I am safe, I am have Polardox. Surely I am safe, I have GPA/WTF... I have Umbrella? IRON? FEAR? DT? C&G? Meh.

 

The Tywins of the world have been clamoring for a champion for some time now. Everyone thought IRON would stand up and fight when raided, but they backed down and allied DBDC once raided. Then it was Polardox as the bastion of hope, surely the Citadel remnants would stop the mighty DBDC. Even still some clung to a hope that the neutrals like GPA and WTF would save them. Okay TDO went but they didn't have a great upper tier. Okay GPA said they were going to fight but once DBDC concentrated on knocking the biggest naysayers down they went quietly. Surely WTF will stand and save the day though, they have huge nations...

 

Enough with the excuses. The world stands still as the masses await their savior to show up from just over that mountain top. One to arise from the great beyond to lead them to victory. 

 

It's better to fight now with WTF than to fight alone later. 

 

We're waiting.  :war:

 

Damn, if only we had thought about this a year ago when we decided this current war had to happen and somehow planned for it.  We could have reached out seeking new relationships, nurtured those relationships to gain loyal allies and friends, and gotten ourselves into a position of diplomatic strength.  We also could have slowly taken down the upper tiers who we thought might have used this opportunity to bandwagon on to us and cause us harm.  Some day we are going to figure this stuff out.

 

I am glad you posted this thread.  I've been trying to convince Bones of your duplicitous nature and how you consistently attempt to drive a wedge between us and our mutual allies.  I also have a scheduled chat with Dajobo this evening where we should be able to work out an agreement to settle our differences.  Now that we have engaged in our plan and you have posted exactly what we assumed would happen and why we had to taken certain steps, I think he will be able to see things from our perspective a bit more clearly.

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Damn, if only we had thought about this a year ago when we decided this current war had to happen and somehow planned for it.  We could have reached out seeking new relationships, nurtured those relationships to gain loyal allies and friends, and gotten ourselves into a position of diplomatic strength.  We also could have slowly taken down the upper tiers who we thought might have used this opportunity to bandwagon on to us and cause us harm.  Some day we are going to figure this stuff out.

 

I am glad you posted this thread.  I've been trying to convince Bones of your duplicitous nature and how you consistently attempt to drive a wedge between us and our mutual allies.  I also have a scheduled chat with Dajobo this evening where we should be able to work out an agreement to settle our differences.  Now that we have engaged in our plan and you have posted exactly what we assumed would happen and why we had to taken certain steps, I think he will be able to see things from our perspective a bit more clearly.

sarcasm.jpg

Edited by Colin40
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I also have a scheduled chat with Dajobo this evening where we should be able to work out an agreement to settle our differences.  Now that we have engaged in our plan and you have posted exactly what we assumed would happen and why we had to taken certain steps, I think he will be able to see things from our perspective a bit more clearly.

I'm confused...

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