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A question of a platypus nature


berbers

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sorry but it is the opposite. did I not make that clear?
 
I was explaining that it is time to fold up shop, but if THEY choose to continue, we will oblige.
 
ready to end it when they are.  Sorry if I didn't clarify that.


I would say that post, with the context of your first post, give the impression that you either want Polar and its allies to burn or accept some form of terms.
 

I think we entered on a D actually, Polar hit our allies and we hit them?

Ok, allow me to rephrase for clarity -
NG used their oA with DS (or DBDC.. doesn't matter) to attack SNX for.. being SNX.
You used an oD with NG to hit Polar, SNX's MD ally.

So while officially you reference an oD clause to declare war the progression was No-CB-DoW -> oA -> oD.

From an alliance that's bloc membership specifically requires they have no chaining treaties. So as far as I'm concerned (and I understand that my opinion matters not in how NATO or anyone else on this planet behave) you may as well say you used the oA clause.

I think you're missing the dozens of posts where Dajobo states his desire for the war to go on for ages. I also think you didn't read Lenny's post at all.

Dozens? I've seen a couple of instances where he's mentioned that this will go on for ages. I think you're stretching the truth a little far to assume from those posts I've seen it is his desire vs his belief.
I believe that this war will likely go on for quite awhile yet as well. It's not my desire, but when you have the MoFA of one of the alliances keeping my ally at war stating things like this, "we'll take it, we are fully committed in it for the longest of hauls. The longer the war, the sweeter the victory." it's hard not to have that belief. Edited by EViL0nE
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From an alliance that's bloc membership specifically requires they have no chaining treaties. So as far as I'm concerned (and I understand that my opinion matters not in how NATO or anyone else on this planet behave) you may as well say you used the oA clause.

 

Yeah, regardless of whatever "nothing personal guys!" lines they want to toss out there, it's been pretty clear for a while now that R&R, NATO, and NPO have been particularly bitter over Disorder and looking for a way to get some revenge. It's 100% personal on their end. Whereas Doomshphere is just doing a great job of pitting our two sides against each other while they continue to grow.

Edited by Prodigal Moon
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Dozens? I've seen a couple of instances where he's mentioned that this will go on for ages. I think you're stretching the truth a little far to assume from those posts I've seen it is his desire vs his belief.
I believe that this war will likely go on for quite awhile yet as well. It's not my desire, but when you have the MoFA of one of the alliances keeping my ally at war stating things like this, "we'll take it, we are fully committed in it for the longest of hauls. The longer the war, the sweeter the victory." it's hard not to have that belief.

 
I understand going out of your way to support an ally, but to pretend NATO has any interest in keeping NpO at war is ridiculous. Feel free to paint NpO as a martyr all you wish, but you know very well they could get out of this war in no time, should they want to.

What Lenny said is nothing shocking, despite what seems to be fake outrage particularly given the double standards in regard to this and last war: as long as NpO desires to stay in, they will face opposition from the alliances lined up against them. The world is shocked and appalled by such a stance!
 

Dajobo never said that.


I'm tempted to waste my time and prove you wrong with a quote, but then I would have wasted my time for you.
 

Yeah, regardless of whatever "nothing personal guys!" lines they want to toss out there, it's been pretty clear for a while now that R&R, NATO, and NPO have been particularly bitter over Disorder and looking for a way to get some revenge. It's 100% personal on their end. Whereas Doomshphere is just doing a great job of pitting our two sides against each other while they continue to grow.

 
Cry me a river.

You guys in NpO did such a perfect job with the management of last war (including the building up to it and post-war diplomacy) that it doesn't surprise me to see the reactions your membership and leadership is having after finding out you had pissed off so many people.

You're welcome to keep ignoring all that happened in the past year and paint yourselves as victims, though. Someone will always buy such nonsense. Edited by Garion
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Yeah, regardless of whatever "nothing personal guys!" lines they want to toss out there, it's been pretty clear for a while now that R&R, NATO, and NPO have been particularly bitter over Disorder and looking for a way to get some revenge. It's 100% personal on their end. Whereas Doomshphere is just doing a great job of pitting our two sides against each other while they continue to grow.

 

I didn't really want to get involved in this portion of the discussion (or touch it with a ten foot pole, for that matter), but regurgitating what Dajobo undoubtedly preaches to y'all doesn't make it true. If you want the real, honest truth, it's this:

 

We just don't care.

 

We don't. We do not care. This war, we're fighting Polar. Last war, it was TOP, Umbrella, MI6 and company. The one before that, it was MK, Umbrella, and company. The common theme in all of that? We'll peace out, rebuild, and fight someone else next go-round. Unless you are the United Purple Nations, the majority of R&R does not give a rat's ass about you enough to hold that sort of grudge.

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Yeah, regardless of whatever "nothing personal guys!" lines they want to toss out there, it's been pretty clear for a while now that R&R, NATO, and NPO have been particularly bitter over Disorder and looking for a way to get some revenge. It's 100% personal on their end. Whereas Doomshphere is just doing a great job of pitting our two sides against each other while they continue to grow.


Revenge is certainly an element in their actions, though I wonder if NPO has been compromised by their upper tier. After all, in Disorder (unlike Polaris) their upper tier hid in peace mode, so its not a stretch to imagine that their upper tier has an inordinate amount of internal influence, so much so that it has steered NPO to act against the interests of its lower tier, in favor of DBDC servitude. I may be wrong here, as perhaps NPO will repent in the future, but we can only draw upon past and present actions to determine the reason for such an irrational stand (from an alliance, not upper tier perspective).

And before someone mentions TOP again, no it is not the same, because TOP did not bandwaggon with Doomsphere.
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I'm tempted to waste my time and prove you wrong with a quote, but then I would have wasted my time for you.


If you are going to make extravagant claims about what other people say, it would be wise to have the quotes on deck. Edited by Tywin Lannister
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 Like our DoW said, nothing personal against NpO either.  war is war. 

 

 

 
You guys in NpO did such a perfect job with the management of last war (including the building up to it and post-war diplomacy) that it doesn't surprise me to see the reactions your membership and leadership is having after finding out you had pissed off so many people.

You're welcome to keep ignoring all that happened in the past year and paint yourselves as victims, though. Someone will always buy such nonsense.

 

 

 

 

We just don't care.

 

This is without wasting my time digging up all the posts from berbers cheerleading against us. Do you guys need a minute to get on message?

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Yeah, regardless of whatever "nothing personal guys!" lines they want to toss out there, it's been pretty clear for a while now that R&R, NATO, and NPO have been particularly bitter over Disorder and looking for a way to get some revenge. It's 100% personal on their end. Whereas Doomshphere is just doing a great job of pitting our two sides against each other while they continue to grow.

 

 

I think you can strike us from that list. We have hardly been posting on the OWF at all, beyond telling people that it really isn't anything personal. I certainly don't feel that this war was anything personal for us -- we didn't even fight Polar...

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Revenge is certainly an element in their actions, though I wonder if NPO has been compromised by their upper tier. After all, in Disorder (unlike Polaris) their upper tier hid in peace mode, so its not a stretch to imagine that their upper tier has an inordinate amount of internal influence, so much so that it has steered NPO to act against the interests of its lower tier, in favor of DBDC servitude. I may be wrong here, as perhaps NPO will repent in the future, but we can only draw upon past and present actions to determine the reason for such an irrational stand (from an alliance, not upper tier perspective).

And before someone mentions TOP again, no it is not the same, because TOP did not bandwaggon with Doomsphere.

 

 

Tywin says it's not the same, whew...thanks for clearing that up.  *sarcasm*

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I understand going out of your way to support an ally, but to pretend NATO has any interest in keeping NpO at war is ridiculous. Feel free to paint NpO as a martyr all you wish, but you know very well they could get out of this war in no time, should they want to.

R&R went out of their way to attack Polaris, an RIA ally, to say that R&R is really going out of their way to do anything is a joke.

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I think you can strike us from that list. We have hardly been posting on the OWF at all, beyond telling people that it really isn't anything personal. I certainly don't feel that this war was anything personal for us -- we didn't even fight Polar...

 

So why do you think you're fighting this war?

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I would say that post, with the context of your first post, give the impression that you either want Polar and its allies to burn or accept some form of terms.
 
Ok, allow me to rephrase for clarity -
NG used their oA with DS (or DBDC.. doesn't matter) to attack SNX for.. being SNX.
You used an oD with NG to hit Polar, SNX's MD ally.

So while officially you reference an oD clause to declare war the progression was No-CB-DoW -> oA -> oD.

From an alliance that's bloc membership specifically requires they have no chaining treaties. So as far as I'm concerned (and I understand that my opinion matters not in how NATO or anyone else on this planet behave) you may as well say you used the oA clause.

Dozens? I've seen a couple of instances where he's mentioned that this will go on for ages. I think you're stretching the truth a little far to assume from those posts I've seen it is his desire vs his belief.
I believe that this war will likely go on for quite awhile yet as well. It's not my desire, but when you have the MoFA of one of the alliances keeping my ally at war stating things like this, "we'll take it, we are fully committed in it for the longest of hauls. The longer the war, the sweeter the victory." it's hard not to have that belief.

 

You are misunderstanding my quote there.  If NpO wants to start negotiating, we are more than happy with that.  So far, they have only said that they plan on warring for years as far as I know.  My response was to that, meaning I think it isn't what I'd expect from them, but if THEY choose that path we will abide.  Not sure why you are not understanding that.

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So why do you think you're fighting this war?

Because among the choices of the side we were on, the side you are on, and sitting out, taking into consideration where our allies are and so on, it seemed that this was the best choice. That it isn't personal doesn't at all mean we can't think we benefited.

 

Also, for the record, we are at peace now, and as such aren't fighting this war any longer.

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This is without wasting my time digging up all the posts from berbers cheerleading against us. Do you guys need a minute to get on message?


Errr, I'm not Gov for one and for two TOP is basically the only AA I want to see burned to the ground...so finding a ton of anti-polar posts is going to be tough.

I mean you may find one or two...but on the whole I don't hate Polar, I just feel they needed a bloody nose for last war :/
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Errr, I'm not Gov for one and for two TOP is basically the only AA I want to see burned to the ground...so finding a ton of anti-polar posts is going to be tough.

I mean you may find one or two...but on the whole I don't hate Polar, I just feel they needed a bloody nose for last war :/

yeah, it was all Polar's fault you decided at the last minute to switch sides.

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Because among the choices of the side we were on, the side you are on, and sitting out, taking into consideration where our allies are and so on, it seemed that this was the best choice. That it isn't personal doesn't at all mean we can't think we benefited.

 

Also, for the record, we are at peace now, and as such aren't fighting this war any longer.

Considering there aren't really sides until a war starts and NPO was clearly involved in the planning, what exactly are you referring to?

 

Errr, I'm not Gov for one and for two TOP is basically the only AA I want to see burned to the ground...so finding a ton of anti-polar posts is going to be tough.

I mean you may find one or two...but on the whole I don't hate Polar, I just feel they needed a bloody nose for last war :/

 

As of about two months ago they had you posting a NATO-DS treaty, so I'd say your opinion is worth taking into consideration. That "needed a bloody nose for last war" thing is exactly what I mean. Doesn't have to be some kind of eternal blood feud here but let's not pretend there aren't some hard feelings about last war that just maybe played into this one.

 

Edit: typo

Edited by Prodigal Moon
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Considering there aren't really sides until a war starts and NPO was clearly involved in the planning, what exactly are you referring to?

 

Sure, there aren't clearly defined sides, but that doesn't mean you can't make a decent guess of which alliances will fight alongside one another, and which alliances want to fight each other. I think you'll agree with me that most of our allies and friends could be fairly pinned as having been likely to be in the coalition we were in. That's really all I am referring to. We went for this war because it seemed to be the rational best choice, and made sense given what our allies wanted, not because of some personal grudge.

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What? :|

 

When did NATO switch sides? :|

Considering R&R and TIO(at the very least) were in the Polar coalition channel right up until the war actually happened, US was supposed to be either neutral or on the Polar side, but things didn't turn out that way. This of course still ignores that R&R offensively chained in on an RIA ally, while pretending as though RIA actually matters to R&R.

Edited by Mogar
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Considering R&R and TIO(at the very least) were in the Polar coalition channel right up until the war actually happened, US was supposed to be either neutral or on the Polar side, but things didn't turn out that way. This of course still ignores that R&R offensively chained in on an RIA ally, while pretending as though RIA actually matters to R&R.

You do not speak for RIA, stop framing it as such. RnR and RIA leadership both know who to reach out for official stances, you're not one of them. R&R have been honest and straight forward, your little attempt for discord is cute.

Now, disregarding your red herrings, What are your opinions on TOP? From what I recall you wanted to see them rolled, however now that you're in same coalition, is that opinion changed?


The rebel, practice what you preach, feel free to share with us your criticisms of your allies in other relevant discussions. No I do not publicly criticize my allies nor I expect others to do, and none of my allies have done it to this scale, so I have no need to criticize them privately. If you want to discuss matters other than the topic at hand, feel free to shoot me a PM. Edited by shahenshah
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You do not speak for RIA, stop framing it as such. RnR and RIA leadership both know who to reach out for official stances, you're not one of them. R&R have been honest and straight forward, your little attempt for discord is cute.

What are your opinions on TOP? From what I recall you wanted to see them rolled, however now that you're in same coalition, is that opinion changed?

R&R leadership also knows that they effectively stopped communicating, and up until the war dec led RIA to believe that R&R was going to only follow defensive treaties, which is not the case. You can argue whatever you like, R&R fucked up with RIA, which is disappointing.

I still want to see TOP get rolled, but they're in peace mode, and until you actually present the discussed terms of their upper tier exiting peace mode for the two months or so suggested, they don't have a reason to exit PM.

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